[jamessiffel]

yes, an f25! im resurrecting the dead here, ive never run a swiss before, ive figured out how to operate it, today i was realigning everything(very neglected machine) to realign the rotary bushing to the fixed bushing do you just move the pedestal housing that holds the rotary bushing? i see no other way. and how do you realign the main spindle? fyi, i cannot get the set screw above the spindle loose. any and all help with this dinosaur would be greatly appreciated. and throwing it out and buying one from this century IS my first instinct. humor me please!

[DCogswell]

Have you been able to get this machine running?

[jamessiffel]

It "runs " meaning the powers on, spindle turns and turret moves. Makes good parts? No. Luckily for now ive been absolved of it. Its a saw basically

[amercc]

James, have a shop full of F's(12,16,25) over here 3T/10T controllers. While I'm not an expert by any means I have a fair amount of practical experience, if I can help let me know.

[jamessiffel]

Hey amercc, thank you for offering help, very interesting you guys are filled with those models, im on our okumas now but would still like to hear about and maybe see a pic , whats the top speed you allow your f25 's to reach? Have you had to rebuild any of them?

[amercc]

in total there are around 30 citizens, the 25's are usually cutting around 2000 rpm give or take depending on material. At one time or another I've been in and out of most sections of these machines, typically it's servos, boards. Had issues with bearings in the bushing, that's a real pain. If you look up american citizens corporation you can see some of the machines we run on the site.

[markhas]

Sorry for Hi-Jacking the oooold post.
Does anyone think you could help me out? I just acquired a 1985 Citizen F25 in running condition. I need to figure out what exactly I have and how to get it running. I have staff that can program newer machines, hopefully we can figure out this old one. Any ideas where I can locate help on programming and parts for these things? Our local Citizen rep seemed luke warm to the idea based on it's age. They want to sell me a new one.
Thanks,
Mark

[chunkymonkey]

If I acquired a machine of that age, my best bet would be to go to the Millenium guys in South Bend IN. They may try to sell you a new machine, but I know they do rebuilds and such and are knowledgeable on older machines as well.

[jamessiffel]

If I acquired a machine of that age, my best bet would be to go to the Millenium guys in South Bend IN. They may try to sell you a new machine, but I know they do rebuilds and such and are knowledgeable on older machines as well.

You can rebuild them but why, buy an older M series and L series , f25s arent constructed like modern swiss so why spend the cash.

[Ned-Dragon]

Why workshops have to buy the old machines? If the workshop has enough work for a new machine, then new machine to be purchased. If there is not enough work, then it is better to find someone who can make parts. Share profit.
I worked on machines such as Citizen E, F models. They are slow too slow.

For example F12 makes one part 3:55 M-15 parts a hour
spot .045
Cross hole .031
Gruver .03
Gruver .015
spot 3/16
I.D. drill .146
Flat b. drill .146
I.D. drill .092
2 Turning tools A.O. L.. .5
cut off

K16E makes same part for 50 S.-72 parts a hour
spot .045
Cross hole .031
Gruver .03
Gruver .015
I.D. drill .135
spot 3/16
E. Milla .14
boring bar
I.D. drill .092
2 Turning tools A.O. L.. .5
cut off

4.6 parts for one cycle F12.

F, E MODELS ARE PROBLEMS. One K or L model can take out 3 F, E. models out of line. All new Citizen are faster and better, should not be wasting time.