[miljnor]

Originally Posted by One of Many
....Their claim was that they lost the master that they judge fit by. Say what!? (*@#$%)....DC

Man I have worked at some sucky companies but thats unreal!

I have about 20 vises in my shop about 5 are kurts and the of the other 15 2 are US Vise and the rest "cheap" imports.

The US vises are the first I bought when going into business, almost an exact replica of a Kurt (everything is interchangable, Ive tried it). I'v most of them were messuring about .005-.006 thou side to side.

Out of all the vises I've had the most problems with the US ones Probably alloy in the castings, 2 cracked in half from overtighting (ya I fire the employee that did this, after the second warning) and the thrust bearings just wouldn't live in them until they were moded to bronze solid thrust washers.

the second most troublesome is the kurts. That pretty paint they have on them maybe lasts a month before my coolant strips it off and I have had two of them lock the screws up in them where I had to us and impact to free them up again. Although on the plus side these 2 are still in production.

The cheepy chinees ones so far (after 4years) haven't had a single issue. But then they are exact copies of the earlier more robust Kurt vises (pre spiral snap ring hold together of the thrust washer).

[Geof]

Just to give another side to the story I have 12 Kurt D688 and 5 Kurt DL640 ranging in age from 3 to 7 years and have never had any issues with them. No jamming, no noticeable slop and the paint is still okay except where it has been chip blasted off.

[miljnor]

they must have different places they get their painting done. because after I posted that I went and looked and one of mine looks as new as the day I bought it (paint wise anyway) and the others have no paint.

I have been using the same coolant for 4-5 years now.

[One of Many]

A Gentleman can speak his mind while limiting his outrage, but still gets the point across!

Would you have appreciated something more poignant?

DC

[DareBee]

On another note from the same page.
I am a big fan of Bison tooling and chucks (Polish - in case you are wondering).
I notice that they have a vise that appears to be similar design to Kurt. Anybody using any of these? Feedback would be appreciated by all of us still viewing this thread.

BTW it is my oldest Kurt without any paint (No name on the sides of the moving block) and the newer ones (name recessed into the sides of the moving block) that are lasting better.
The only vises that we have split the castings on have been Asian imports.

[shawncnelson]

I've worked with many vises including Kurt for 20 years. There are none better than Kurt, period. Their quality is as good if not better than ever. They are easy to clean and super reliable. That float is supposed to be there. If you have problems with clamping a small part on the extreme edge of the vise, just use a similar sized part on the opposite side or an adjustable parallel. This isn't a problem, it's just sound machining.

[jed102]

Yes, of coarse everyone is entitled to an opinion. As far as clamping a part on the other side of the vise that just happens to be the perfect size, well it's just plain inconvenient even if you happen to find something that fits.

Frank

[One of Many]

Yes, of coarse everyone is entitled to an opinion. As far as clamping a part on the other side of the vise that just happens to be the perfect size, well it's just plain inconvenient even if you happen to find something that fits.

Frank

Workhorse and precision are expectations that include a specific price tag within fit, form and function. Not very often do we get to pick our price, then expect it to perform flawlessly for all circumstances.


As with many machining operations, there will be variables to compensate or unforeseen issues to adjust to. Since all the hand wringing in the world won't change that. There are methods to make this rather trivial vise slop a non-issue with a minor change in habits for maximum impact on function. A similar problem would be just as troublesome while gripping non-parallel parts in a totally rigid vise.

As is a reamer=precision to a drill.
As is grinding =precision to conventional chip removal

So to should be proper vise selection =precision to duct tape fixes that could be made to fit the application?

Usefully applied experience can and will get the job done, while "inconvenient" is just another opinion on the whole scheme of adaptations we do for craftsmanship.



DC

[wholepair]

If you want a slip free - no jiggle - vice, get a toolmakers vice(AKA diemakers' vice). I knew a tool maker with a mighty vice once - he wobbled a bit when practicing his vice a bit to much.

anywho - look at these piktures - they are purty!
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&q=toolmakers+vice
(nuts)

I have had no problems with Kurt vices. I have squared up countless blocks and plates of various sizes and materials in a Kurt. To me the movable jaw in the Kurt is a key component to getting around the occasional out-of-parrallel edges. If every horizontal band saw cut perfectly square faces, every piece of scrap was allready squared - or I(and everyone else) was an ace at feeding plate through a vertical band saw, I would not ever need for that slop in the Kurt vice. When I have to work on small parts I sometimes clamp a screwless tool-makers vice into a Kurt and perform the operations. Tool-makers vices are ussualy very slip free, much like box-ways are. They are ground that way. Though as the oppinions in this thread seem to proove - it depends on the brand and the customers specific needs. Tool-makers vices are also not good for really heavy machining(they are good for small precision parts) - if your doing some light surface grinding - or facing the ends of a piece of 1/16" brass key stock that is supposed to be a 1/4" long and have 00-90 tapped holes on three different faces then a Kurt vice is probably not the best solution.

[ctate2000]

You need to adjust the set screw as said earlier. The kurts are still the best and most rugged. You can make a precision vise out of it by putting all components on the surface grinder and surfacing and squaring all surfaces. Then adjust the screw until vise will just open and close. Each time you make a set up repeat the setting process for the position you are using at the time.

[cmnewcomer]

I have a Enco 5" Precision Milling Machine Vise that I've been considering replacing with a Kurt vise.

When researching them, I was puzzled why their D-40 is more expense than the D-675. This post further concerned me by the way. However, does anyone understand the reason for the higher cost of the D-40?

I was also puzzled by the lack of details in regard to flatness and repeatability that could be found for Kurt vises. This worried me so I started looking at other vises such as Parlec. Parlec states these which seem decent for the type of work I will be doing. So, does anyone have experience with Parlec that they could offer?

I'd really like to find a 4" vise with specs (flatness/repeatability) similar to the Parlec for under $450.00. This may be a pipe-dream but here again if someone has any recommendations, it would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards.

Carl

[One of Many]

Probably due to production numbers. The D675 must out sell the D40 by many many times.

DC

[Farmers Machine]

I have 4 D 688 on a Milltronics RH 30 mill with 20,000 + hours. have about a ton of machined soft steel jaws for all of the different production set ups. want to buy 6 of the high density vices to double the capacity and cut part changes in half. never used a chick vice but never regretted the KURT made in the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck
The Farmer

[keen]

Hi guys - just recond a 6" kurt vise and was interested to find this thread. re the jaw slop - i did a test. I gripped a long bar just 1/2'' into one side of my Kurt vise and tighened it up hard - all wrong i know - the jaw skewed round. i measured the grip ex the load to shift at the other end of the bar.

Now I got my ultra precision 6" vise (which I had ground and fitted a hardened strip in the slide so there was almost zero play). Did the same test - the jaw could not skew much but you know what.....the grip was no better!

Just goes to show that Kurt have done their homework - sideways slop has the same result whether it is 0.0005" or 0.010" 1 degree or 0.1 degree - same end result.....

[SanDiegoCNC]

Have any of you guys tried the Quad-I vise? I had one and it was great. Solid as a rock and for about the same price as a Kurt. It is a little taller but can be turned on its sides. Here's the best part about them... the front jaw is fixed and the rear jaw is movable. Since most programmers use the front left corner of the work piece as their datum, the Quad-I's ease of use become apparent.

Also, the Quad-I is American made, right here in San Diego.

For more information on this vise, please visit my website link...

http://www.sandiegocnc.com/Quad-I%2C...2C+workholding

[keen]

Hi SanDiegoCNC.

Your vise looks really classy - but I worry about no lock jaw. I have modified a vise to high precision and still found I got slight jaw lift. If I put a dial indicator on the moving jaw and tighten hard the jaw flexes up about 0.001" - 0.002" But my lock jaw vise does not do that - provided it is set up correctly - as in 'O' ring driven jaw lift set at say 0.001" to start with. What lift under clamping do you get on your moving jaw?

[SanDiegoCNC]

Hi SanDiegoCNC.

Your vise looks really classy - but I worry about no lock jaw. I have modified a vise to high precision and still found I got slight jaw lift. If I put a dial indicator on the moving jaw and tighten hard the jaw flexes up about 0.001" - 0.002" But my lock jaw vise does not do that - provided it is set up correctly - as in 'O' ring driven jaw lift set at say 0.001" to start with. What lift under clamping do you get on your moving jaw?

I sold my shop several years ago so I cannot do a clamp test for you to give you an accurate number. From reading Quad-I's website, it looks as if the lift is kept between 0.0005 and 0.001.

http://www.quad-i.com/what-is-quad-i-vise.html

[Rekd]

Just goes to show that Kurt have done their homework

Yes, they have.

The few occasions I haven't been able to overcome the lift from the jaw while trying to hold tolerance I've found that using a vice that you can put the part below the screw (load path) on the movable jaw will help keep it from lifting. That's not always possible though.

Since most programmers use the front left corner of the work piece as their datum, the Quad-I's ease of use become apparent.

I LOLed. :rainfro:

[SanDiegoCNC]

I LOLed. :rainfro:

So, what do you do? Follow me around all the time just to make smart ass comments? Find something else to do besides screwing around with me. I won't ask twice.

[JRoque]

Meow!! thhd thhd. Hopefully you're just kidding.

Mandatory topic: are Kurt vises made in USA with USA materials? Seems everyone else is China made these days.

JR