[Shrimp]

I've had my patriot for about 2-3 weeks now and I am creeping up on having it totally setup but I am not quite there.

I followed the manual I was provided to unlock the lathe/mill CnC control. I wired it up, unlocked it though the front panel and then tried to run the test command M3 S500. The front panel ramps up in speed but the lathe does not turn nor does the mill when either is selected. I have the key in the neutral position and I have triple checked all the wiring and unlocks and they are all correct according to the manual I was provided.

I have read of a few things on here, either the manual wiring being incorrect or the software needing to be unlocked somehow. My problem is I can't contact Shopmaster because they are closed till August 10th and refuse to answer their phone for technical help (or at least that is what their voice-mail tells me).

I am looking for some help in troubleshooting this problem. This is a brand new machine, not a used one. I sent them an e-mail but still have no response. I need to hop on this quick as I have some threading to do on the lathe and can't even begin to attempt it without CnC control of the lathe.

[Shrimp]

So I did a little testing. I am able to jump 12vDC to the forward and reverse points on the white module (not the psu or the gecko drive). It works the lathe forward and rev when jumping it. Then I used the m3/m4 commands with s500 for the speed in mach 3 and tested to see if I got any voltage out of the two wires coming from the Gecko drive and I got nothing. Then I stuck a paperclip in the 1 and 17 ports (how they are configured in my Mach3 for the patriot) and then I tried to ohm out the two wires on the other end of the Gecko. Nada, nothing, no connection. Is this normal?

This is extrememly frustrating especially since I can't contact shopmaster for ANY help.

[Shrimp]

So either my Gecko540 isn't communicating right, or it's busted.

I've got Mach3 setup to pins 1 and 17 for outputs 1 and 2 respectively, then I have outputs 1 and 2 mapped to CCW and CW under spindle and I have all the other setting set as described in the manual. When I send the command for CW or CCW I get no voltage out the leads from the back side of the Gecko. I can hook the front panel switch up and manually supply 12v to the nowforever and it works but the Gecko refuses to send the signal itself.

Still no word from Shopmaster, day 2.

[wreckermech]

Troubleshooting can be fun. Here are a couple of things to try Gecko has a charge pump and e-stop hault line that might not be working right. Go to their site and read the setup and they also have a G540 XML File that is configured to mach3. Try that and PM me what you find.

[Shrimp]

After getting in contact with Shopmaster I figured out it was either 2 settings, that in the manual are checked, and in the updated pages unchecked. Or it was the lack of the wire from the -12v PSU to the bottom com port.

Either way I can control the lathe and mill from Mach3 now. Now I have to tackle the task of dialing in the pulley speed which f'ing boggles the mind according to the instructions in the manual. I understand the process, I think, but I am dreading having to take the belt off the pulleys and measure them to figure out the pulley ratio. Shopmaster claims they can't tell me what they are because the Chinese manufacturer changes what they use sometimes. Any help appreciated. Trying my best to wrap my head around this but it's tough.

[instructor37]

Either way I can control the lathe and mill from Mach3 now. Now I have to tackle the task of dialing in the pulley speed which f'ing boggles the mind according to the instructions in the manual. I understand the process, I think, but I am dreading having to take the belt off the pulleys and measure them to figure out the pulley ratio. Shopmaster claims they can't tell me what they are because the Chinese manufacturer changes what they use sometimes. Any help appreciated. Trying my best to wrap my head around this but it's tough.

Not sure why you would take the belt off the pulley- just measure its diameter with a caliper. When you go to CONFIG- SPINDLE PULLEY you can put in your ratio there. Remember, the MAX SPEED is the spindle speed, not the motor speed, so you need to make a calculation of the spindle speed based on the motor speed X pulley ratio. Because the VFD HZ setting can be changed, you need to take that into account as well. Example- If your VFD is set to 50 Hz and the motor RPM rating is 1400 at 50HZ and your pulley ratio was 1/2, then your spindle would be turning 700 RPM at 50 Hz. Also be sure your pulley selection # is correct, as you have a lot of choices in Mach 3 designed for machines with a lot of pulley setups. Your Patriot machine has only one pulley ratio, so usually just set your ratio in PULLEY 1 and leave all the others alone. Finally, you will need to use some sort of external tachometer to verify your settings. You can generally tell if you are close just by watching the spindle, but if you want to get it near perfect the tachometer will be a must.

[Shrimp]

Not sure why you would take the belt off the pulley- just measure its diameter with a caliper. When you go to CONFIG- SPINDLE PULLEY you can put in your ratio there. Remember, the MAX SPEED is the spindle speed, not the motor speed, so you need to make a calculation of the spindle speed based on the motor speed X pulley ratio. Because the VFD HZ setting can be changed, you need to take that into account as well. Example- If your VFD is set to 50 Hz and the motor RPM rating is 1400 at 50HZ and your pulley ratio was 1/2, then your spindle would be turning 700 RPM at 50 Hz. Also be sure your pulley selection # is correct, as you have a lot of choices in Mach 3 designed for machines with a lot of pulley setups. Your Patriot machine has only one pulley ratio, so usually just set your ratio in PULLEY 1 and leave all the others alone. Finally, you will need to use some sort of external tachometer to verify your settings. You can generally tell if you are close just by watching the spindle, but if you want to get it near perfect the tachometer will be a must.

So I can just measure the OD of the pulleys and not the ID where the belt actually sits? The depth will be the same on both pulleys?

I don't think I can do that. For instance. Let's say the OD of Pulley1 (motor pulley) is 2 and the OD of Pulley2 (lathe pulley) is 3. Now let's say the depth of the lip on each pulley is 0.5. That means the surface the belt rides on are each 1.5 and 2.5 respectively.

Now let's do some math. 2-3 ratio is .66~ ratio. 1.5-2.5 ratio is 0.6. This is why I don't think I can use the OD of the pulleys and I instead have to take the belt off and measure the inside diameter of the pulley. Follow me?

[instructor37]

Belt pulleys are not that precise, since the belt does not grip on the bottom of the V, but on the sides- therefore variations in the pulley width due to wear and also wear on the belt etc. can change the precise ratio. Therefore measuring the diameter is the best way, because pulley and belt wear should be fairly close on both pulleys. You will probably be within 5% of the true RPM this way- to get closer, you will need a tachometer to tweek the pulley ratio to its more exact seting.

[Shrimp]

Belt pulleys are not that precise, since the belt does not grip on the bottom of the V, but on the sides- therefore variations in the pulley width due to wear and also wear on the belt etc. can change the precise ratio. Therefore measuring the diameter is the best way, because pulley and belt wear should be fairly close on both pulleys. You will probably be within 5% of the true RPM this way- to get closer, you will need a tachometer to tweek the pulley ratio to its more exact seting.

I know I need a tach to get it super precise, I am just trying to get it roundabout for right now. According to the Shopmaster manual, at S925 in Mach3 I should be at 75hz on my VFD display. That means at ~S925 I should be at 50hz and at ~S462 I should be at 25hz. This isn't right for me, I am at 32hz at S462. I am lost as far as how to fix this though, still trying to wrap my head around it.

EDIT: I did some testing here is what I came up with:

Mach3 Max Speed: 1200
VFD Max Hz: 75
S400 = 32hz
S800 = 61hz
S976 = 75hz

Why is my motor scaling like this?

[instructor37]

Shopmaster supplies you with an .XML file that is based on the factory specifications. However, the machine- as in most Chinese machines may have been changed by the factory due to material shortages etc. It looks to me like the setting in your SPINDLE SETUP needs to be adjusted to match the machine.
1. Check the motor rated RPM and Hz on the motor tag. If it is 1400 RPM at 50 Hz like ours, then at 50Hz your motor should turn 1400 RPM.
2. Now look at your pulley ratio setting- the default setting is .66 .66 X 1400 = 924 RPM on the spindle at 50Hz.
3. If your RPM at the spindle is only 800 as an example, then 924 divided by 800 = 1.16 1.16 X .66 = .77 which should be your pulley ratio setting.

[Shrimp]

Shopmaster supplies you with an .XML file that is based on the factory specifications. However, the machine- as in most Chinese machines may have been changed by the factory due to material shortages etc. It looks to me like the setting in your SPINDLE SETUP needs to be adjusted to match the machine.
1. Check the motor rated RPM and Hz on the motor tag. If it is 1400 RPM at 50 Hz like ours, then at 50Hz your motor should turn 1400 RPM.
2. Now look at your pulley ratio setting- the default setting is .66 .66 X 1400 = 924 RPM on the spindle at 50Hz.
3. If your RPM at the spindle is only 800 as an example, then 924 divided by 800 = 1.16 1.16 X .66 = .77 which should be your pulley ratio setting.

I understand how the math works. What I don't understand is why when I have the max speed set to 1200 in Mach3 and I set the S-word to 400 (1/3 of 1200) I don't get 25hz on the motor I get 32hz. I do have the 1400RPM/50Hz motor like you guys. Not factoring in the pulley ratio, my motor isn't going the correct Hz for the speed I set and I need to figure out why.

[Shrimp]

So no matter what I set the "Max Speed" to under my spindle setup the Hz in the VFD display panel does not correspond.

I had it set to 75 under P0-007 and P0-024. I set the "Max Speed" to 1200 and "Pulley Ratio" to "0.5" (not so much concerned with the RPM display at this point so it will be good for now). Then I set the "s" word to 400, "s400" and it corresponds in Mach3 and there is no override or anything set to interfere with that. I should get 25hz on the VFD display but instead I get 31-32hz.

Same thing happens when setting it to 50Hz on the VFD and using any number for max speed. It doesn't matter what I set it to, be it 2 or 2000 and if I use 1 or 1000 as the S-word I don't get 25Hz. Not sure how to fix this. Awaiting Shopmasters answer but their response was they would have to go back and check or relearn how to fix that.

[smallblock]

Check your setting in P0-012- it should be set for 50 Hz motor- if its set for 60Hz motor you would be off by 20%

[Shrimp]

It's set to 50hz

[smallblock]

I read through your posts, but I'm not 100% clear-
Are you saying that your RPM is correct, but the Hz reading is wrong or both Hz and RPM are wrong?
If your RPM is correct, then it may be that you have a mechanical issue like a slipping belt. Mach 3 receives a signal from your spindle sensor and then sends the proper signals to the VFD controller based on the motor rpm and the pulley ratio etc. to spin the motor at the proper RPM. However, if the belt was slipping, I think Mach 3 would continue to increase the HZ until the spindle sensor told it that it was at the correct RPM.

[Shrimp]

I read through your posts, but I'm not 100% clear-
Are you saying that your RPM is correct, but the Hz reading is wrong or both Hz and RPM are wrong?
If your RPM is correct, then it may be that you have a mechanical issue like a slipping belt. Mach 3 receives a signal from your spindle sensor and then sends the proper signals to the VFD controller based on the motor rpm and the pulley ratio etc. to spin the motor at the proper RPM. However, if the belt was slipping, I think Mach 3 would continue to increase the HZ until the spindle sensor told it that it was at the correct RPM.

I am not worried about the RPM at this point. I am simply trying to get the motor to turn at the correct Hz based on the S-word in Mach3.

According to Shopmaster if I set the "Max Speed" in Mach3 to something, let's say 1000 in this case. Then I set the Max Hz on the VFD to let's say 50hz. That means at S1000 in Mach3 I should be running 50hz on my VFD and at S500 I should be running 25Hz on my VFD, right?

This is not the case for me, the scaling of the frequency on the VFD does not correspond to the S-word input relative to the "Max Speed" s-word.

For instance, if I were to set my VFD to 50hz under P0-007, P0-012, and P0-024, then set "Max Speed" to 1000 and the my S-word to 500, I get 32hz, not 25hz.

I can't even begin to dial in the RPM based on the pulley ratio if my motor won't turn at the correct Hz based on the "Max Speed" and S-word I give it.

[smallblock]

Well, that's your choice, but when you are running the machine, its the spindle RPM that is important. If you give it an S500 command and the spindle goes 500RPM then the Hz reading is not important. You need to beg, borrow or buy a tachometer and get the RPM settings working right.

here's one on e-bay cheap- I have one in my toolbox. You can grip it in a chuck, or with the rubber tip, just press it against the end of a spinning shaft like an electric motor to see the rpm.

Vintage Mechanical Tachometer Stewart Warner 0 4000 RPM Hand Held | eBay