[gorillazp108]

That sounds great

[Dave's_Not_Here]

Made in America...

Blurry Customs' Web Store

I was seriously looking at the tabletop routers techno had before I found out they were liquidating and did not have any stock left, I don't know of any other company that has a smaller than 4x8 machine built with quality components, I can only hope armor decides to put one out, everyone else seems to be using steppers and less than quality components.... Please correct me if I am wrong.

[gorillazp108]

Blurry has some really cool looking machines but I could only find a couple videos online and not much more. When I get a chance ill send them an email and see if I can get some more information.

[victorofga]

eric

if everything would be right... then techno could be the first of routers.. it didn't happen..

shopbot started something.. and that might be a way.. however they are still not what a ford among cars..

at this moment theres a huge market for the mass for routers.. no American manufacturer wants to see it..

the problem with the Chinese machines, that they are improving theirself, and at this time they have covered everything that possible with routing..

[victorofga]

quality parts?

that's a good question.. does anyone exactly knows how many german products outsourced to producing to china? because from late 80's Germany was a pioneer to taking technology and everything to china reducing manufacturing costs..
by this can happen any good brand actually made in china...

anyone remember for the age of the pocket radios.. when japan and Taiwan flooded the whole world with electronic?
around 70's every country has own television brands.. today you know sony..
this is what happening with routers.. no one can beat the oriental workculture..

I was living in the former east block.. I know ""german engineering"" ... they purchase wherever cheaper, then rebrand and sell..
company I worked we also made stuff for them...

if you looking back in history you can see when jacquard made his textilemachine folks didn't liked..
they said that can not make quality and folks will be without work..
as youre engineer, possible you know jaquards machine..

it just repeating time by time..

in economy, if demand raising, that will be fulfilled.. if demand is a low cost equipment, you might find way to make, or others will make it..

[RandK]

Speaking of poorly engineered machines, do you guys have any retrofits in the works for the Techno Gantry machines, like an entire new frame/table ? It must feel good to be gone from a low integrity situation and company. Seems like there could be a lot of opportunities helping people fix up all these crappy machines wherever they were built.

[Dave's_Not_Here]

Speaking of poorly engineered machines, do you guys have any retrofits in the works for the Techno Gantry machines, like an entire new frame/table ?

What exactly is the issue with the frame/table? That seems to be the best part of my machine...

[ericscottf]

That's ludicrous. "covered everything that possible with routing".

eric

if everything would be right... then techno could be the first of routers.. it didn't happen..

shopbot started something.. and that might be a way.. however they are still not what a ford among cars..

at this moment theres a huge market for the mass for routers.. no American manufacturer wants to see it..

the problem with the Chinese machines, that they are improving theirself, and at this time they have covered everything that possible with routing..

[ericscottf]

I can assure you that the German ISEL components that Techno sold were made in Germany. Isel is a large company that does make good, consistent equipment. Not all of it was meant to be used the way Techno did, but none of it was made in China, except maybe some of the smaller components - bearings, bolts, etc. In fact, over the years, ISEL was just about the most consistent vendor we had. Nearly everyone else went every which way in quality, location, etc. It was very difficult to deal with.

quality parts?

that's a good question.. does anyone exactly knows how many german products outsourced to producing to china? because from late 80's Germany was a pioneer to taking technology and everything to china reducing manufacturing costs..
by this can happen any good brand actually made in china...

anyone remember for the age of the pocket radios.. when japan and Taiwan flooded the whole world with electronic?
around 70's every country has own television brands.. today you know sony..
this is what happening with routers.. no one can beat the oriental workculture..

I was living in the former east block.. I know ""german engineering"" ... they purchase wherever cheaper, then rebrand and sell..
company I worked we also made stuff for them...

if you looking back in history you can see when jacquard made his textilemachine folks didn't liked..
they said that can not make quality and folks will be without work..
as youre engineer, possible you know jaquards machine..

it just repeating time by time..

in economy, if demand raising, that will be fulfilled.. if demand is a low cost equipment, you might find way to make, or others will make it..

[ericscottf]

We are working on our own line at this time. If you tell me what you don't like about your current machine, I'll see if any of our new stuff can be made compatible. Like Dave said, most people like the frame/mechanics, and just not those stepper motors and stepper controllers.
Servo is the only way I'll ever go.

Speaking of poorly engineered machines, do you guys have any retrofits in the works for the Techno Gantry machines, like an entire new frame/table ? It must feel good to be gone from a low integrity situation and company. Seems like there could be a lot of opportunities helping people fix up all these crappy machines wherever they were built.

[RandK]

054 Gantry III servo machine. I read you were there for 10 years so definitely was built and sold on your watch, but I have no issues with you about that since you are no longer with Techno. No real frame, the rails bolt to the bottom of the hollowcore extruded AL table. Excessive sag along the long axis although the gantry axis also has sag. A new steel ladder frame table would be nice. I plan to replace the machine but thought I'd ask if you guys were planning something.

[Dave's_Not_Here]

054 Gantry III servo machine.

Apples and Oranges for me... I thought you were referring to the larger gantry routers like the LC and HD lines, instead of the table top models.

[victorofga]

eric

I really wish you, get better business than techo could made..

I asking 5 min from you, to go on the net, check alibaba and a few similar website.. yes, you can see any type machine possible to buy from china..
you can complain on quality or their workforce..
but this is fact, they covered all area..

again we had to deal with german companies... we didn't sell any of their products.. we made them..
your company only buying from Germany and that is different situation than producing for them..

eric.. I have no plan to arguing you.. your effort is ok.. however techno closing up and other companies are coming up..

you can say you don't like personally the open stepper system.. and your points are real.. but in a business you sell what customer wants to buy..

you say accuracy... if you like to make accuracy then you have to use linear scale, and drive gantry on both side..

you want rigidity? then you have to use cast iron..

there are us companies making this.. and businesses need these category they buying from them.. let me have little doubt that a 2-3 person new company would compting with termwood or haas.. or even onsrud..

but these companies also, using rack n pinion system.. because they know for furniture panels don't need H7 tolerance.. yet they could build their machine for,,,

also a point to reach a precision with a router and I mean here again H7 tolerance, for that need machine rigidity and possible linearscales..
doubling at least the price of the equipment..

my point was for the demand you need to make compromises..

yes, selling servo system, but beside that selling the open stepper system.. certain way you can explain customers why a closed servo better..
but beyond these let customer decide they need, or they can afford..
or... your company you start, will ending up same way than techno..

and this topic you opened, it shows only your bitter feeling by Chinese presentation on the market.. it will not make you better looking..

mightbe a help you, onsrud company don't complain publicly against Chinese machines..
Chinese also don't complain why America manufacturing routers..

[Dave's_Not_Here]

Sometimes Americans have the mistaken idea that we need to help every other country achieve our standard of living. We project our western standards as though it is something their people want... two car payments, a boat, a huge mortgage, credit cards, expensive hobbies... and the list goes on. The fact is, these people do not want our lifestyle "at the level in which we live it." They want our freedoms and the ability to better themselves "within their own standard of living... not as compared to America."

I tried to get several software programs written here in America. The communication was horrible and the prices were outrageous, from those that actually wanted to do the work. Then I go on Elance and post my job for bid. I end up getting people with Master Degrees (certified and verified by the way) that quote me prices that are a tiny fraction of the American prices and they are eager to get the work! Why? Because the Median Urban Income in India, at that time, was $3,500 USD! A $350 program written, tested and delivered before payment, represents 10% of their entire annual wages. Remember, this is Median Urban Income! And they lived extremely well IN THEIR country for $3,500. In fact there are consortium's of 50, 100, 200 and even 500 well educated Indian people bidding major projects for Fortune 500 companies every day.

Should I criticize educated Indians for writing software cheaper than Americans? I find it disingenuous to be concerned about slave labor on one hand and critical of their efforts to make their standard of living better in their country, by their standards. The fact is, real "slave labor" is where workers are conscripted to do work they do not want to do. I don't see that being the real issue here. I see Americans comparing the hours Chinese employees work and the wages they make, to what we are used to in America and we think "slave labor." In reality, most of the Chinese workers are escaping poverty in the peasant villages by working in these factories to support themselves and their families back in the village. They save 90% of what they make and a lot of Americans spend 100% of what they make.

And let's be real here; Nike keeps a hell of a lot of money that they save from going overseas and then from selling at inflated American prices. It's not to pass on lower prices to Americans, but to pay people like Rory Mcllroy $40 Million to use Nike clubs and ruin his golf game, in hopes that spoiled Americans will run out and buy Nike golf clubs! You can't blame the Chinese... Between Mcllroy and Nike, there was a lot of greed to go around... meanwhile we pay more for Nike shoes. (Although Nike golf clubs might be going down in price...)

I will always give Americans first shot at my dollars, if I can afford it. If I can't afford it or if Americans are not interested in competing for my money, then it goes overseas. America has become a nation of too many people thinking everyone owes them something without them having to do ANYTHING to get it. Our political system caters to these people and all it does is diminish America's ability to compete in the Global Economy. Like it or not, it is a Global Economy and America is beginning to suffer the consequences of not paying attention and letting politicians do their thinking for them.

I think Eric and his team have an excellent opportunity to capitalize on their personal experiences, their companies experiences, the shift in the global economy, American entrepreneurism and American's desire for a quality product at a fair price. They will either replicate some or all of what they know or will learn from it and deliver a new and better product to a waiting marketplace. I hope for the latter. Regardless of what they decide to do and how they decide to do it, one thing is for sure, it is not China's fault. Never was, never will be.

Dave has left the room...

[aarggh]

Sometimes Americans have the mistaken idea that we need to help every other country achieve our standard of living.

I read that first line and immediately thought "Whaaaat!", but reading the context of the rest I certainly agree. A labourer in India or China or wherever, earning what may be a pittance to us, may actually have a better lifestyle than those of us who are indebted to the hilt, paying astronomical prices just to live.

What it all boils down to though, is that even though many people on average may have more disposable income than ever, and the spending on hobbies is higher than ever, there is still a great disparity between the ROI and cost of products from China and other countries, and the bulk of the western world. Nowhere that I've seen, does anyone else in the world offer a machine with the construction quality of the 6040's, at any comparable price. All the units from western countries either use inferior materials, or don't supply key components, etc.

There is a great void there, that so far only China has stepped into.

cheers, Ian

[KTP]

China is sort of where the USA was in the early 1900s. Not many regulations (environmental or worker). Both of our cats were killed by melamine laced cat food that came from a factory in China which was trying to fake the level of protein. At the time, I didn't even realize IAMs came from China.

If I need a medical implant when I get older, like a pacemaker or similar, I would be unhappy with one made in China and would prefer something from USA, Japan or Europe. Just sayin...when quality counts and all...

[aarggh]

If I need a medical implant when I get older, like a pacemaker or similar, I would be unhappy with one made in China and would prefer something from USA, Japan or Europe. Just sayin...when quality counts and all...

You'd kind of hope that with items like that it's not the bean counters that have the say! You definitely want some quality control there! Seeing as it's pretty much a user pays system in the States though, you'd be right, otherwise how would they justify the insane amounts they charge for medical services?

cheers, Ian

[gio666]

I read that first line and immediately thought "Whaaaat!", but reading the context of the rest I certainly agree. A labourer in India or China or wherever, earning what may be a pittance to us, may actually have a better lifestyle than those of us who are indebted to the hilt, paying astronomical prices just to live.

What it all boils down to though, is that even though many people on average may have more disposable income than ever, and the spending on hobbies is higher than ever, there is still a great disparity between the ROI and cost of products from China and other countries, and the bulk of the western world. Nowhere that I've seen, does anyone else in the world offer a machine with the construction quality of the 6040's, at any comparable price. All the units from western countries either use inferior materials, or don't supply key components, etc.

There is a great void there, that so far only China has stepped into.

cheers, Ian

Instead of just saying its high quality construction and components. Could you show info and pictures? Could you show craftsmanship on 6040? Tell so info of what to look for on machine to know its right. Show detail down to even the smallest part. Then maybe people would understand

[aarggh]

Instead of just saying its high quality construction and components. Could you show info and pictures? Could you show craftsmanship on 6040?

Something wrong with your ebay searching for 6040's?

They're all over the place. Very easy to find. The specs are also listed on them, but in essence, proper ballscrews and ballnuts, very nice and powerful but quiet spindle/VFD combination, solid aluminium frame with quite a lot of mass (which really helps with reducing resonance, vibration and noise), aluminium t-slot table, decent NEMA23 steppers, t-slot clamps, most also have supported linear rails and ball bearing blocks, (not v-bearings running on steel angle), etc, etc.

The only issue is the garbage controllers they ship with, but even allowing for the additional cost of a G540, they still work out a better and cheaper proposition than any comparable machine that I'm aware of.

By craftsmanship, are you meaning produced items or the finish of the machines?

cheers, Ian

[gio666]

eric

I really wish you, get better business than techo could made..

I asking 5 min from you, to go on the net, check alibaba and a few similar website.. yes, you can see any type machine possible to buy from china..
you can complain on quality or their workforce..
but this is fact, they covered all area..

again we had to deal with german companies... we didn't sell any of their products.. we made them..
your company only buying from Germany and that is different situation than producing for them..

eric.. I have no plan to arguing you.. your effort is ok.. however techno closing up and other companies are coming up..

you can say you don't like personally the open stepper system.. and your points are real.. but in a business you sell what customer wants to buy..

you say accuracy... if you like to make accuracy then you have to use linear scale, and drive gantry on both side..

you want rigidity? then you have to use cast iron..

there are us companies making this.. and businesses need these category they buying from them.. let me have little doubt that a 2-3 person new company would compting with termwood or haas.. or even onsrud..

but these companies also, using rack n pinion system.. because they know for furniture panels don't need H7 tolerance.. yet they could build their machine for,,,

also a point to reach a precision with a router and I mean here again H7 tolerance, for that need machine rigidity and possible linearscales..
doubling at least the price of the equipment..

my point was for the demand you need to make compromises..

yes, selling servo system, but beside that selling the open stepper system.. certain way you can explain customers why a closed servo better..
but beyond these let customer decide they need, or they can afford..
or... your company you start, will ending up same way than techno..

and this topic you opened, it shows only your bitter feeling by Chinese presentation on the market.. it will not make you better looking..

mightbe a help you, onsrud company don't complain publicly against Chinese machines..
Chinese also don't complain why America manufacturing routers..

What can you tell from looking at a picture on the net of a machine from 20 feet away.
Maybe show some detailed pictures of your machine , and what to look for when buying a machine ?