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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > Looking for wireless transfer of nc files to tormach
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    2

    Looking for wireless transfer of nc files to tormach

    Hello,

    I'm a new Tormach user and have finally got my 1100 up and running and successfully cutting. My dilemma is the transfer of files from my Solidworks machine to my Tormach PC controller. My current method consists of a USB memory stick that I will move from CAD/CAM station to the Tormach to dump the nc file to the desktop. I do not have the Tormach controller on the network (as advised by Tormach) and therefore would like to find a way to wirelessly transfer files between computers. Does anyone know if an SD card with wifi would work? If I had the SD card plugged into an SD card reader into the USB, could I transfer the files successfully over wifi?

    Curious to hear your thoughts,

    Cheers!:cheers:

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    789
    Any network activity or USB activity can mess up Mach, if the machine is cutting/moving. If no NC is executing, you can do USB activities like plugging/unplugging a memory stick, copying files, etc.
    You can try networking if you want to, just be prepared for unexpected behavior.

    And SD card is not wireless, are you thinking of the EyeFi cards? They are not really designed for this. And regardless, it's USB traffic which can hiccup Mach3.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    40
    I have another PC on my bench next to machine that I dump the files to from my desk...the machine is downstairs...I just don't trust wireless file transfer of large code files...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    51
    I use a USB wifi device that links up to home network. My startup sequence for programs have a command in to disable the wifi, that way it cant' interfere with code running. Works well. Also have a button that I have programmed on the screen that synchronizes the folders on the network drive to the Mach controller.

    Something like this to disable wifi:

    ' M1000.m1s
    ' Turn off Wifi
    dim z as integer
    z=Shell("wmic path win32_networkadapter where index=14 call disable",1)

    And here is code for sync of folders:

    Dim z As Integer

    z=Shell("xcopy \\DLINK_NAS323\Volume_1\GCode C:\GCode /S /Y /D",1)

    Regards,

    Geo

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1543
    USB WiFi Card
    Proxifier
    DropBox

    I've transfered literally 1000's of files (every CAD save, POST, etc) while my machine is running, never once had a hiccup.

    Proxifier will block all traffic except DropBox (or however you set it up) so all my PC sees is DropBox. Proxifier isn't needed, but am playing it safe.

    JustMe does not understand how WiFi works, as it is ERROR FREE... It's has checks and balances and you WILL NOT have corrupt files.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    166
    It's not that the files become corrupted during transfer. It is that when the CPU has to use resources to do file access, networking, etc; that can make resources that mach3 needs laggy, blocked, or used. So mach3 may "crash" or cause an error.

    Basically, if the machine is running, dont do anything else on it in the meantime. When it is not running, treat it as a normal.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    653
    My Tormach is not using their controller, but is usually hooked to a 'quiet' network (as much as any are). I used to disable the network all the time when cutting but now mostly don't bother. It's not been a problem. I don't do anything else on the machine while it's working.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1082
    So the network card is liable to screw up Mach3? I find that very hard to believe. The computer probably has at least 20 pieces of hardware (maybe more like 50) that it's controlling while Mach3 is running, what makes the network so much different?

    Perhaps we should go into the BIOS of our CNC computers and disable anything noncritical. I wouldn't want the temperature monitor to cause Mach3 to go into a tailspin.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    40
    Quote Originally Posted by mrquacker View Post
    It's not that the files become corrupted during transfer. It is that when the CPU has to use resources to do file access, networking, etc; that can make resources that mach3 needs laggy, blocked, or used. So mach3 may "crash" or cause an error.

    Basically, if the machine is running, dont do anything else on it in the meantime. When it is not running, treat it as a normal.
    Mrquackerman is correct...It is resources thing... also it is wise to turn your "Tool Path Window Off" when doing large files...As the PC will be trying to update the window while running the code...This will cuase Mach to crash or do funny thing...

    I network to a second PC at machine and now while my machine is running I can do other thing on the second PC...

    Why the people don't want to follow Tormach recommendation I don't understand...
    My view is "Don't Trust it"...As it is alway easier to do thing right...than do them twice...

    But me being an "Old Timer of 53 years" i still remember have to get off my butt to turn a TV channel when I was a kid...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    1543
    I use to have a video on YouTube showing that I can watch YouTube in one tab, be on CNCZone (think of all the ads), regenerate toolpaths in CAM, and MACH never missed a beat while running.

    Perhaps the people having issues don't have the look ahead turned up, or are using a single processor, low RAM PC?

    It's not hard to turn the priority up for MACH, hit ctrl alt del and go to town.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10
    I have a relatively new (three month old) CPU as provided and setup by Tormach and I use to "cheat" and transfer files with a USB stick, or tweak some G-Code with Notepad ++ while milling with Mach3. Then one day after moving a file from the memory stick (I always move the file off the stick instead of copy to keep the stick empty) and starting the milling process I noticed that I had left the USB stick plugged in. Milling had been going on for about 10 minutes. I just pulled the USB memory stick out while milling. Mach3 glitched (kept going in a straight line instead of turning) and trashed my part and broke the end mill. Now I play it safe, even though I know that I could get away with it probably 99% of the time. I don't touch the Mach3 computer while milling and I try and remove the USB stick before milling starts and leave it in if I forget.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    166
    I dont see why this is hard to understand. The computer that runs mach3, runs the mill. When the mill is on and gcode is being run, that computer should only be running mach3. So no torrenting, music streaming, web browsing, cad/cam, excel, etc. No other open programs.

    The way it was explained to me was that the electrical timing signals sent from mach3 to the mill are prone to corruption by other system functions. Such as RAM, HD read/write, CPU usage, USB usage, and bandwidth on the serial port. So the fewer other programs/things running, the fewer corruptions.
    I leave my usb wifi dongle plugged in, I just dont use it while code is running.

    When the mill is off, then its just another computer, and use it as such.

    It'll happen once to you, and you too will see why we do so

    I don't touch the Mach3 computer while milling and I try and remove the USB stick before milling starts and leave it in if I forget.
    What I do: Hit "Pause" at an opportune moment, wait for the mill to stop, then remove the USB. Continue program.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1026
    I'm running LinuxCNC and have had good luck so far running Dropbox on the control PC. Pretty sure I've browsed web pages while the machine has been running and have yet to have any problems that couldn't be traced to operator error. Getting rid of swapping a stick between my CAD/CAM laptop and the machine control has been a small but hugely valued quality of life improvement. I'm normally something of an anti-evangelist but if you're not scared of computers I'd buy a cheapo hard drive (seriously, you can get them for $20) and try out an install of LinuxCNC. The setup took almost no effort with the configs supplied by Tormach and the base Ubuntu O/S has never required me to dig into any config files or other indecipherable crap like Linux sometimes does.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    783
    I usually have email open, at least 5 tabs in chrome, turbocad, rhino 3D, usb stick plugged in, wireless pci card and am doing work while the machines running, never had a hiccup.

    Oh wait, I don't use mach3, I use Deskcnc and usually have a second instance of it open as well so I can use it's 2D/3D cam and g code editing while the other instance of it is running the machine. On an older hp vista machine with an ancient serial pci card to boot!

    Artsoft would make a killing with mach4 if it had an external processor card like deskcnc and flashcut. we need to start thinking ahead, parallel ports are dinosaurs, microsoft is dropping all support for xp soon...

    This tiny little board makes it possible with deskcnc, 125000 steps per second, multiple ins and outs, only uses about 2% of the computers cpu while code is running.

    For the OP, what about a bluetooth dongle? Plug it in to receive files, unplug it while running code?


    Sent from tapatalk

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    653
    Screwing around with USB ports while the machine is cutting is a recipe for problems. You're better off not unplugging anything while it's cutting. I run a network stack on my Tormach controller, but I don't unplug USB devices while it's in use.

  16. #16
    I won't speak for the various flavors of Linux and attendant substitutes for Mach, but...


    The problem is that Windows is not RTOS (Real Time Operating System). (Well, neither is Linux, actually) In order for it to work at all - that is, controlling all of the machine functions by bit-banging on the parallel port - there are a number of tweaks required to the machine configuration. You think the Big Boys (Haas, Fanuc, you name it) would run their machines on Windows or some other non-realtime OS? I doubt it. If they do, they most certainly have some other dedicated hardware handling the lowest level of commanding motion and handling such high-priority tasks as E-stop. Tormach and others use Windows because of its low cost. (Or as my computer engineer brother would say, "Windows is pretty good software - for the money")

    The reason you don't want to plug/unplug USB or even have the network port *connected* while you run parts is clearly explained in the manual. When network or USB are plugged or unplugged, low-level and high-priority interrupts occur to the processor. This behavior is embedded deep in the OS and/or the BIOS of the machine. The business of bit-banging the parallel port is also very low-level, and when motion is being commanded, also very time-sensitive. When conflicts occur, so do problems.

    If you've got a computer/BIOS combination that allows you to surf MTV or YouTube while you cut parts, and it never causes you a problem, great. I'm not going to gamble my parts or tools on it. I have a ChromeBook in my shop that I use to play Pandora music and search for parts online when the need arises. I use the Tormach to make parts. Would you surf the web with your microwave oven if you found out you could? For me, it's the old "use the right tool for the job" thing.

    Back on-topic, though. I use a USB stick to transfer files to the Tormach controller, and I unplug it before running anything. I do all the mods to the code on another machine.

    -Mark

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Wirecutter View Post
    The problem is that Windows is not RTOS (Real Time Operating System). (Well, neither is Linux, actually)
    I'm not going to get into academic debates about what a true RTOS is/must be, but the point is that the patched version of Ubuntu that LinuxCNC runs on is much more reliable at the margin than Windows. I have never had a machine glitch, and I started using LinuxCNC five years ago, and most LinuxCNC users report similar levels of reliability. While I wouldn't use this system to control the autopilot on an airliner, it is absolutely a fundamentally more reliable architecture than the one Mach runs under. Now don't get me wrong, there are plenty of areas where I like Mach's approach better, and I've got plenty of posts here where I tell people they should try it or continue using it if it works for them. I'm not a zealot. But we're not talking about surfing cat videos on Youtube--we're talking about being able to have a machine connected to a network so you don't need to sneakernet files around the shop. Getting rid of those USB keys saves real time and prevents mistakes from saving/opening the wrong versions of files. Big shops with modern machines are moving towards doing everything over ethernet for this reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wirecutter View Post
    You think the Big Boys (Haas, Fanuc, you name it) would run their machines on Windows or some other non-realtime OS? I doubt it. If they do, they most certainly have some other dedicated hardware handling the lowest level of commanding motion and handling such high-priority tasks as E-stop.
    A number of the big boys do exactly what you say, and this is probably going to happen in our end of the pond over the next few years. With all the work in this area going on in hobby-level lasers and 3D printers I think we're going to see a shift away from the parallel port over the next couple years for our larger/more complex machines. It's also worth noting that some people are getting LinuxCNC to run on the Beaglebone black board, a $50 open-source board with a 1GHz CPU and something like 65 GPIO pins. To me that's much more of a future than Mach 4 and proprietary niche boards like the Smoothstepper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wirecutter View Post
    Tormach and others use Windows because of its low cost. (Or as my computer engineer brother would say, "Windows is pretty good software - for the money")
    No, they use it for its familiarity. LinuxCNC costs $0 and will run on cheaper hardware. I spent ~$200 putting together a machine (it took an hour) to run my mill. As I see it, Mach costs around $1000 for the Mach license, Windows license, and the Tormach Machine Controller that's certified to run everything well, so long as I don't sneeze too close to it. It appears to me they've spent a considerable amount of money over the years on things like the Tormach Machine Controller and MachOS to overcome the fundamental shortcomings of the architecture. I understand--maybe if their system was Linux-based it would scare a lot of buyers away, *even though* in actual usage it might be no harder to use than Windows, and more reliable to boot. If you're happy with Mach, great. I'm happy I can use other applications on my control machine that make me more productive.

    And the minute something demonstrably and significantly better comes along, I'll happily ditch what I use now. Unlike a Haas, we all have the freedom to update our machine controls without throwing out the whole machine or paying Tormach an exorbitant fee.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    6028
    Quote Originally Posted by Wirecutter View Post
    You think the Big Boys (Haas, Fanuc, you name it) would run their machines on Windows or some other non-realtime OS? I doubt it. If they do, they most certainly have some other dedicated hardware handling the lowest level of commanding motion and handling such high-priority tasks as E-stop.

    -Mark
    You are correct. Fanuc has an "open" control, that allows you to run a pc front end, but all motion and Plc is still controlled by dedicated hardware. Mori Seiki uses embedded XP to allow a nice user front end to a Mitsubishi or fanuc for task handling. (via fiber optic high speed bus) Mazak and okuma both use a pc front end to control an industrial control (Mitsubishi/osp). Haas is there own dedicated control, not sure what it's written with, but not windows for sure. Precitech ultra precision uses linux, and those control to 1 millionth of an inch in actual motion.

    Estop should never be controlled by the actual control, the control emergency should always be secondary to actual mechanical disconnect of power, such as contactors and dissable the drives.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sansbury View Post
    I'm not going to get into academic debates about what a true RTOS is/must be, but the point is that the patched version of Ubuntu that LinuxCNC runs on is much more reliable at the margin than Windows.
    Sorry for coming off a little snotty. I don't want to spark such a debate either. I like Linux and use it all the time - in fact, the virtual machines that I use all the time at work (many hosted on a Windows 7 laptop) are more robust than any previous Windows machine I've used before.



    Quote Originally Posted by sansbury View Post
    It's also worth noting that some people are getting LinuxCNC to run on the Beaglebone black board, a $50 open-source board with a 1GHz CPU and something like 65 GPIO pins. To me that's much more of a future than Mach 4 and proprietary niche boards like the Smoothstepper.
    This is intriguing - I didn't know about that one, and I'm going to look into it further. Are you suggesting that such a board could run the Tormach? That *would* be cool. Even if you needed to have one handle the low-level stuff (bit-banging stepper drivers) and another to spoon-feed it mid-level commands arising from G-code (move to X,Y at such-and-such speed), that could be a cheap and reliable alternative.


    Quote Originally Posted by sansbury View Post
    No, they use it for its familiarity.
    Touche', but it still goes to what I was suggesting - that Windows was *not* chosen because it was the best tool for the job. IMHO, something at least more "RTOS-like" than Windows would be more suitable.


    Quote Originally Posted by sansbury View Post
    And the minute something demonstrably and significantly better comes along, I'll happily ditch what I use now. Unlike a Haas, we all have the freedom to update our machine controls without throwing out the whole machine or paying Tormach an exorbitant fee.
    Agree. I've always loved that about open-source in general and Linux in particular.

    -Mark

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Wirecutter View Post
    This is intriguing - I didn't know about that one, and I'm going to look into it further. Are you suggesting that such a board could run the Tormach? That *would* be cool. Even if you needed to have one handle the low-level stuff (bit-banging stepper drivers) and another to spoon-feed it mid-level commands arising from G-code (move to X,Y at such-and-such speed), that could be a cheap and reliable alternative.
    No worries Mark

    The LinuxCNC-on-Beaglebone thing looks a bit early days still, but it's very promising. The sheer specs of the board (1GHz CPU/512 MB RAM/2GB SD drive, onboard HDMI video) are awfully close to the Atom-based PC I'm running today, and the state of tiny embedded stuff is improving constantly thanks to the smartphone industry pouring cash into it. That board would have made a very nice CAD workstation not so long ago. There's enormous interest in something more robust than the Arduino-type boards to run open-source 3D printers and lasers, so there's multiple developers pushing on this and I suspect it's just a matter of time before it gets robust enough for us.

    The curious thing with this is that for a long time I assumed these types of boards would just be for bit-banging and such, but with the way their power is ramping, I'm starting to wonder whether the monolithic approach may become tenable. Architectural elegance aside, the biggest problem people actually have with LCNC or Mach is finding/configuring a PC that they run well on. The LinuxCNC LiveCD helps, but you still need the right hardware. The Beaglebone setup kind of solves that problem by brute force by providing a stable and inexpensive hardware option. If this pans out, the future might see Tormach having a complete control computer inside the cabinet that you just plug mouse/KB/monitor into.

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