[Rocksalt]

Hello all,

I have a Moriseki I am working on with a 6T control and I need to replace some of the turret position switches. They are PNP and NOT the TL-M2ME2 (NPN, NC). When I looked up the PDF for the TL-M2ME2 it does not show a PNP variety and the TL-M2ME2 seems to be obsolete.

I have some TL-M2ME2 proximity so I thought I would use a relay to switch the input. Apparently, the input is floating and I need a pull down resistor to make it work. Unfortunately, I don't know the resistor size needed but it should not be too hard to figure out.

Does anyone have a cross reference for the TL-M2ME2 to PNP and know the pull down resistor value needed to make the relay work as a temp fix until I can get the right parts?

Does it seem odd this machine would have PNP inputs? It has been awhile since working on a vintage SL-3 but I seem to remember they were NPN. The I/O board is a A20B-0007-004.

[Al_The_Man]

You could use a NPN transistor to invert them, just connect a 560ohm res to from the collector of the PNP to common, then connect a 1k resistor in series from the the base of the NPN to the junction of the prox and 560 ohm and wire the emitter to common and wire the collector of the NPN to the machine input.
2 resistors and 1 NPN.
If the machine needs PNP then it is usually because the input sinks to common instead of sourcing to +24v.
Al.

[Rocksalt]

If the machine needs PNP then it is usually because the input sinks to common instead of sourcing to +24v.
Al.

I am a little confused in your statement. The input wants 24V+ in order to turn the bit on. If the input wanted common it would be NPN?
According to the datasheet of the TLM2ME2 the sensor is NPN and the load is directly connected to 24+ and is switching common.

Are you saying I cannot use a pull down resistor from the input to common and use a relay tied to the NPN proximity?

[Al_The_Man]

Yes sorry you need the reverse I outlined if you need to convert a NPN prox to PNP for a sink type of input card, so you need a PNP transistor and reverse the order of common and make it +24v instead, the res values would be the same.
Al.

[Rocksalt]

I've included a diagram of two configurations and am confused (once again).

According to the prints there are many inputs connected to the IO board. On the other side of the contacts before the input is 24V+. The proximity are not drawn well enough to understand if PNP or NPN. However, one would surmise if the other inputs are being fed from 24V+ on the other side of the contact the proximity should be PNP?

With the input wire removed the voltage measures 24VDC with respect to com!
On a good proximity, when off, measures about 2VDC with respect to com at the input.
When the proximity measures 24VDC at the input the status bit is on.

I connected a relay to the NPN proximity and switched 24VDC to the input. The status bit is always high and hence the problem.

According to the included file for PNP sourcing I should not have 24VDC at the input when the load is disconnected?

[Al_The_Man]

Those reading are confusing and a bit contradictory.
I would NOT have expected 24v at the a sinking type input, (source input device used)?
One usual way to confirm it is to take the input directly to +24v and then common in turn and see which changes the state of the Input bit on the diagnosis screen.
This should indicate the nature of the input and indicate whether a PNP or NPN would work.
(Keep in mind you can also get N.O. and N.C. prox sw)!
I just checked my 6T manuals and they show +24v on the I/O card and 24N (com) feeding the input switches/devices.
This would confirm seeing 24v+ at an open input?
Al.

[Rocksalt]

Now you have me worried! I am new to this machine as I am helping someone out. I don't know who has been in the machine or what was done.
Can you take a look at this pic and see if it is similar to yours? It is labeled +24N which is weird. Usually it is 24N or 24P. I cannot tell if this has been pencil whipped. I cannot trace back 160 to it's origin to know the polarity.

I do not believe this is a sinking input! I applied 24VDC to the inputs and the data bits go high. I shorted com to the input and it shorts out the supply.

[Al_The_Man]

According to those inputs, the card appears to be sinking the inputs, i.e. +24 supplied to the input sourcing/switch device?
Especially as you confirm it from the test? I don't know why they shut down on opposite polarity?
That would make the Prox PNP?
It is different from the machine manual I have, however.
Al.

[Rocksalt]

Is the PNP/NPN dependent on part number of the board? Part number A20B-0007-004. Does Fanuc make sink/sourcing IO for the 6T control?

I really need to understand where I am at here. Oddly enough.... The reference proximity switch was not working. I installed a NPN sensor and it would not work. I then tied the sensor to a relay and directly switched 24VDC to the input and it worked. However, it will not work for the turret switches.

The reason I was asked to work on this machine was due to the Z axis not referencing. The input is not registering to the NC. The wiring rings OK but no data bit change. I ordered a replacement board but I am hesitant to install it until I get this figured out.

On these drawings the outputs are sinking... Usually when the outputs are sinking the inputs are as well. I think somehow the +- power is switched.

[tc429]

dunno the card numbers, but our 6 controls had jumpers in the wire wraps for input and output polarity- except for the 12bit spindle outputs which sink only...

[Rocksalt]

OK, in reading through the Fanuc manual it shows limit switch connection to +24N. The "N" part throws me a bit but the power supply is showing +24N and 0L. So, is it safe to say that all Fanuc 6T has sourcing inputs?

Does anyone have a diagram that shows otherwise?

[Al_The_Man]

I checked another 6MB prints for a Dahlih mill and all the I/O cards show +24vdc fed direct to the cards and -24v fed to all input device commons, indicating a card sourcing - input device sinking?
Al.

[Rocksalt]

Can you post that print so I can see it?

I have gotten the inputs to work properly. I connected a 400OHM resistor from common to the input and it brought it down to 3VDC and the input went off. As I said earlier, if I directly connect common to the input it shorts out the power supply.

[Rocksalt]

I was in error. This machine kicked my butt and still continues to..

The turret proximity switches are NPN, sinking the inputs. However, the reference switches are PNP. It appears that before I got there they connected an NPN proximity to the Z reference and it would not work.

Now I have a new issue I am desperate for help on.

The turret will not index properly to the tools except for tool position #2. I found a truth table and every position matches the bits observed at 157, 0,1,2,3,4,5,7 but only tool 2 will lock in. Once in tool position 2 and manually ask for position 3 it decelerates to 3 and stops but will not lock in. Tool 5 command just indexes the turret forever.

When I arrived there was a 904 alarm and I had to clear the bubble and re-enter parameters from a sheet in the panel that looked as old as the machine. They had nothing recent on file.

Is it possible there are parameters related to turret positioning or the number of positions? There were a few PC parameters, on this 6T control ,on paper and I have no list of PC parameters. Oddly, the control panel shows 8 turret positions but the selector switch is 12 positions. Either someone changed the control panel layout or the machine was retrofitted from 8 to 12 position turret. How does the control know how many turret positions there are (parameter?).

This is a moriseki SL3 with a 6T control.

[Al_The_Man]

Does it show the input bit register for each turret location in the diagnostics?
Al.

[Rocksalt]

Yes.
Position
1- 11000011
2- 11000110
3- 11000101
4- 11001010
5- 11001100
6- 11001001
7- 11010010
8- 11010100
9- 11010001
10- 11100010
11- 11100100
12- 11100001

Not sure what bit 6 is, never changes. Bit 7 is clamp/unclamped, 5- LS13, 4- LS12, 3- LS11, 2-LS10, 1-LS9, 0-LS8.
Starting at about 7 O-clock is LS12, then 9 O'clock LS11, then 12 O'clock LS10, 1 O'clock LS9, then 1:30 LS8, then 3O'clock LS14, then 5 O'clock LS13.

It appears that LS12, 11, 13 trigger off the outter most dogs and 10,9,8 off the inner dogs.

Maybe I got a proximity flipped somehow (I don't think I did, but worse things have happened).

I manually stopped the turret at each position and recorded the bits at 157 and compared with another 12 turret machine of another vintage.

I am stumped. I had to replace some proximity but have no way of knowing if NC or NO. However, the status bits are right.

I need a emoticon for pulling hair out.

[Rocksalt]

I got it!

They had the ladder and I was able to find a bit for 10 position turret and it was high. The written down parameters were wrong for the machine on the PC side. It was parm 3003 bit 7. Needs to be a zero if not a 10 position turret logic will be used.