[karkudata]

Hello,
we are about to buy OKUMA GENOS M560. The machine does direct measuring system or is indirectly servomotors. Do you have a negative impression of the machine?

[tea hole]

Can you elaborate as to your question?
All Okumas us absolute encoders that provide feedback to the control which would be direct I suppose.
The machine itself is based on an MB56 machine and is more robust, faster and more accurate than "comparable" 40-20 machines. In my opinion, if it were my money, it'd be my buy any day. The control, if new, is the P300 control and more capable than any Fanuc based control. No measuring programs in meters of tape here, but rather mega and giga bytes. No PCMCIA cards or RS232 required, but thumb drives and mapped network drives.
With everything, though, it's a matter of what you're doing with it.

[karkudata]

Thank you for your answer.

We want the machine is glass lines. Measurement system must be absolute - the lines are on the table, not the servomotors or ballscrews. In the catalog of the machine can not understand what is the measurement system. Nowhere is described. Problem and present terms in Bulgaria - the seller is not a technical person and gives her information with English terms.

[tea hole]

So I believe you may be able to order the machine with scales. Not sure as its designed to be a standard machine with standard options. Scales may not be available on the Genos. If not, the MB it's based on should have that option. Measurement being absolute, what do you mean by that? Weather you program in absolute or incremental is literally just a G code and is programmer preference. Why are glass scales so important to you? What kind of accuracy are you after? I have used the M560 and can say without hesitation that it is exquisite. Who are you buying the machine from that they can't get you info in the appropriate language?

[Algirdas]

1. It's a big mistake to buy (first in the workshop ?) machinetool from "someone".
2. What accuracy do you need?
We have one client here, who bought the Okuma MB46 with linear scales and they asked us to take the linear scales out of specification after some time. Okuma is accurate enough to have on instrumental steel and Aluminum 2µm accuracy easy.
3. Can't tel 100% sure, but Okuma's are designed for easy installation of linear scales in case. It's option, however.

[karkudata]

The problem is that the machine offer with "absolute encoders". It is not clear whether they are linear or those which are placed on the shaft of the ballscrews. Allegedly super, but it is not clear what those encoders. Perhaps trying to jump our requirement for a line. Did not specify the type of encoder. Language is Bulgarian, but English can. Otherwise, the alternative is MIKRON VCE1000, which is a pretty good machine. Problem with us is the lack of good sales representatives. Some of them are not reliable. The country is small.
The machine will use it for making molds and dies. Now we have a DMG DMU80T and 3 Bulgarian old machines. Ever did such and had built a base for it. And so we become entangled in terms

[karkudata]

accuracy +-0.003мм, repeatably +-0.002. The machine will work in a team with one DMU80T. More branches towards European machine - MIKRON VCE1000, DMC1035 or something. And DMG and MIKRON have a good base in Bulgaria. Have passed here. OKUMA new. GENOS M560 impressed me with its robust construction. I saw her at a fair.на един панаир Extremely stable. No vibration at work. I do not want to skip this option. I want to know more.

[tea hole]

All Okumas use Okuma proprietary absolute encoders. There are people I know in the USA who replaced a machine with a single M560 for mold making. The machine is so fast and accurate, they bought another one and the 2 put out more production in a day than the 4 machines they sold ever could. My understanding is their time into a mold went to 20% of what it was. A mold taking 10 hours total including polishing the scallops to the required finish now takes less than 2 hours and deburr and polish brings the total to 2 hours. If this machine is even on your radar or in your price range, there is no question. Like was mentioned, the machine programs to the .001mm and is accurate to .002; adding scales and a micron control makes it even more accurate and programming becomes to the .0001mm. If that's not good enough, even without the scales, nothing is.

[karkudata]

Absolute measurement it recognize as directly. The question is about the situation and the type of sensor (encoder).encoder). Bulgarian words are close in meaning, but not in English. And the seller is playing with it. We talked with him and he promised to give more details. There will be a specification and drawings.

The main thing is the machine to be accurate and to rely on it, not the operator. The idea is with the right machine to minimize manual work. Making everything more predictable. Furthermore DMU80 our other machines are low - for example 1985. Mashinata will use the programs generated by the CAM. Our belief is that the machine is in line with a larger life. Retains its accuracy longer. Does not depend on the wear of ballscrews.

[tea hole]

Reference this image. Maybe this will help.
Attachment 197276

[tea hole]

Longevity and accuracy, synonymous with Okuma.
Glass scales will not accomplish the goal you're after. This I assure you. (With regards to longevity).
If you wanna spend the extra $10,000us, or more, then by all means, waste away, but you'd be better served with ball screw chillers, high pressure coolant, forth axis, basically anything else.
My opinion has been spoken.
If it were my $150,000 and I were staking my livelihood on it, I wouldn't hesitate to choose an M560 or m460 over anything else as a workhorse I can rely on for the next 20 years.

Are you being quoted something from an Okuma distributor?

[Algirdas]

Mr.tea hole is 100% right. You need some Super duper NURBS from Okuma control. You need to arrange your machining so, that no tool change (not a single axis movement stop) on final surfaces. The native Okuma encoder system is enough for accuracy required. No need of scales glass or diamond or whatever.
the serious problem is you don't have a local Okuma dealer. Did you try to contact the dealer from neighborhood country?

[karkudata]

I spoke with the dealer. He promised me a meeting with a specialist from OKUMA to clarify the situation. In general I think that the machine is accurate enough without lines. Management thinks otherwise.

[kawarta]

i am attaching you a proposal for america from the Genos M560 I hope this help

[tea hole]

Just FYI, the new US spec machines are P300 controls, not P200.

[kawarta]

yes you are correct tea I am attaching a P300M control proposal