[philbur]

Yes but surely an automatic surface grinder is really all about repetitive production type activities.

Can an automatic surface grinder do anything a manual surface grinder can't?

Phil

PS: and no automatic z feed!

yes i'm sure tormach knows not everyone is limited in experience with anything other than milling aluminum, they know plenty of us do work with steels and being able to regrind our own/others punches and dies etc. would be a real benefit.
walt

[waltpermenter]

Yes but surely an automatic surface grinder is really all about repetitive production type activities.

Can an automatic surface grinder do anything a manual surface grinder can't?

Phil



PS: and no automatic z feed!

Have you ever used a surface grinder automatic or not? Work on a decent sized part or multiple parts in a session and your forearms will soon appreciate a machine that moves itself back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, etc. do a pass, lower the z and repeat several times depending on depth required. don't think you realize how many strokes it takes across a part to get a smooth finish.
walt

[philbur]

Yes both, but many, many years ago and not so many hours. I recall that Automatic was nice but the Manual wasn't a particular pain either.

You can buy the equivalent Manual for €2,000, lets wait an see what the cost of eliminating a bit of hand cranking comes in at?

Phil

Have you ever used a surface grinder automatic or not?

[waltpermenter]

Yes both, but many, many years ago and not so many hours. I recall that Automatic was nice but the Manual wasn't a particular pain either.

You can buy the equivalent Manual for €2,000, lets wait an see what the cost of eliminating a bit of hand cranking comes in at?

Phil

ok so what's your point, does tormach need to justify themselves to you for selling this machine?, i bet they don't care much what phil thinks, if you don't want one then don't buy one, simple as that.
walt

[philbur]

OK I see, opinions other than your own are not allowed to be expressed on this Forum. When was that particular rule introduced, I must have missed it, sorry for my error.

Phil

[waltpermenter]

when the price comes out lets compare that to other automatic surface grinders this size, if they exist. some people are happy to change their tools in the mill manually while others are very happy to spend the money for a tormach product that does that for them. to each his own.
walt

[tikka308]

It will be interesting to see how this surface grinder pans out. Tormach has had, in my opinion, a "best in class" solution for their PCNC Mill. There just isn't much competition for the price/quality. The surface grinder is a smaller audience, it's a less "sexy" machine, and, IMHO, most importantly, the people who KNOW surface grinders are going to have strong opinions (e.g. tool/die makers).

However, so far as I am aware, there is no true competition - e.g. a surface grinder that offers automated x/y motion.

As for the z-axis not being automated: I would assume this is a safety measure. However, easy to automate yourself! Really easy...

[rowbare]

Tormach has a design analysis document on the PSG page. As tikka308 surmised, safety was one of the factors in the decision not to automate the Z.

http://www.tormach.com/uploads/725/T...1013A-pdf.html

bob

[waltpermenter]

It will be interesting to see how this surface grinder pans out. Tormach has had, in my opinion, a "best in class" solution for their PCNC Mill. There just isn't much competition for the price/quality. The surface grinder is a smaller audience, it's a less "sexy" machine, and, IMHO, most importantly, the people who KNOW surface grinders are going to have strong opinions (e.g. tool/die makers).

However, so far as I am aware, there is no true competition - e.g. a surface grinder that offers automated x/y motion.

As for the z-axis not being automated: I would assume this is a safety measure. However, easy to automate yourself! Really easy...

yes, good points, as a person who has spent many many hours behind the wheel, what tormach is offering is something special. an automated z would not be in your best interest. the labor saving is in all the x and y movement not in moving the z down once per pass over the part.
walt

[Steve Seebold]

I don't understand Tormach's beta plan. They build a good machine and then they send it to someone who has absolutely no idea what he's doing. They sent out some beta test lathes, but we never hear from the folks who have them. It appears the only information we get is what is done at Tormach.

I would have thought someone who received the beta test lathe would just run the shyt out of it to prove or disprove what it is capable of. I know that's what I would have done.

Sorry, but that's my opinion.

[waltpermenter]

I don't understand Tormach's beta plan. They build a good machine and then they send it to someone who has absolutely no idea what he's doing. They sent out some beta test lathes, but we never hear from the folks who have them. It appears the only information we get is what is done at Tormach.

I would have thought someone who received the beta test lathe would just run the shyt out of it to prove or disprove what it is capable of. I know that's what I would have done.

Sorry, but that's my opinion.

I'm sure you or I could give it a good shakedown but the idea is to get advertising. they can get some free here from beta testers especially ones with a big youtube presence or popular website. too bad they don't get away with what their competition does here on the forums by having a vendor do a build log showing what's being built for sale and when they are shipping out to customers.
walt

[tikka308]

Steve -

Despite your comments (I may be an absolute newcomer to surface grinders, but I'm by no means a newcomer to the machine shop), I agree with you! If I were Tormach, I'd get them into the hands of both people like me (their target audience, and someone who shares his experiences via video) and people who really know surface grinding (you?). They offered me the beta program - I wasn't going to turn it down. I strive to be open and honest in my content -there are topics I'm proficient in and there are topics where I'm very much a beginner.

Help me out - what kind of tests do you want to see? I'd be happy to craft a video around your suggestions.

And despite you saying "i have no idea what I'm doing", what will happen is I will post more videos as I learn the machine over the coming months which will (hopefully) be used by folks who, like me, enjoy this stuff and want to learn. We don't all have the chance to be apprentices or learn the trade first-hand.

[Steve Seebold]

Steve -

Despite your comments (I may be an absolute newcomer to surface grinders, but I'm by no means a newcomer to the machine shop), I agree with you! If I were Tormach, I'd get them into the hands of both people like me (their target audience, and someone who shares his experiences via video) and people who really know surface grinding (you?). They offered me the beta program - I wasn't going to turn it down. I strive to be open and honest in my content -there are topics I'm proficient in and there are topics where I'm very much a beginner.

Help me out - what kind of tests do you want to see? I'd be happy to craft a video around your suggestions.

And despite you saying "i have no idea what I'm doing", what will happen is I will post more videos as I learn the machine over the coming months which will (hopefully) be used by folks who, like me, enjoy this stuff and want to learn. We don't all have the chance to be apprentices or learn the trade first-hand.

Tikka, you are absolutely right. It's good to see what a novice has to say about the grinder, but it would help to see what an experienced machinist or tool maker has to say about it as well.

I don't know how many lathes the company sent out, but the only feed back we are getting is from the company.

I bought my mill based on what I read and I have no regrets, but I think I'll wait a year after the lathe comes out.

I NEVER buy a new car the first year.

[keebler303]

Tikka, you are absolutely right. It's good to see what a novice has to say about the grinder, but it would help to see what an experienced machinist or tool maker has to say about it as well.

I don't know how many lathes the company sent out, but the only feed back we are getting is from the company.

I bought my mill based on what I read and I have no regrets, but I think I'll wait a year after the lathe comes out.

I NEVER buy a new car the first year.

The whole purpose of beta testing is to work out bugs before release. Tormach may tell their beta testers to keep their mouths shut so no rumors start spreading about an issue that gets corrected before release anyway. Obviously it is better for Tormach for them to control what is said about their machines. If it's good, they will share, if it's bad, they have a chance to correct it before it becomes a sellable product.

[waltpermenter]

The whole purpose of beta testing is to work out bugs before release. Tormach may tell their beta testers to keep their mouths shut so no rumors start spreading about an issue that gets corrected before release anyway. Obviously it is better for Tormach for them to control what is said about their machines. If it's good, they will share, if it's bad, they have a chance to correct it before it becomes a sellable product.

well if that is the purpose then why would they give one to a guy who admits he has no experience with a surface grinder, how would he know what works and what doesn't to give them feedback? and why give one to a guy that makes so many videos and posts them on youtube right out of the box and says will post more? if what you say is true then steve would be the better candidate, no?
walt

[philbur]

well if that is the purpose then why would they give one to a guy who admits he has no experience with a surface grinder, how would he know what works and what doesn't to give them feedback? and why give one to a guy that makes so many videos and posts them on youtube right out of the box and says will post more? if what you say is true then steve would be the better candidate, no?
walt

ok so what's your point, does Tormach need to justify themselves to you for selling this machine?, i bet they don't care much what waltpermenter thinks, if you don't want one then don't buy one, simple as that.

Sound familiar? Have a look at post #24 LOL.

Phil

[philbur]

when the price comes out lets compare that to other automatic surface grinders this size, if they exist. some people are happy to change their tools in the mill manually while others are very happy to spend the money for a tormach product that does that for them. to each his own.
walt

The up-front thing to do would have been to apologise, instead of just editing the post, that's a bit underhand, problem is the original got emailed, oops!

Phil

[waltpermenter]

grow up phil, i wasn't questioning tormach i was questioning keeblers logic, i've already stated my opinion as to why they chose tikka, another point that has gone over your head.
walt

[waltpermenter]

The up-front thing to do would have been to apologise, instead of just editing the post, that's a bit underhand, problem is the original got emailed, oops!

Phil

another thing that is over your head, if you notice i didn't edit my post,ger21 did, i have nothing to apologize for.
walt

[philbur]

another thing that is over your head, if you notice i didn't edit my post,ger21 did, i have nothing to apologize for.
walt

Yes it seems to be my mistake, but maybe you should contemplate why he would consider it necessary to edit your post.

Phil