[REVCAM_Bob]

I would like to here what you guys have to say / suggest about
one person running multiple machines.

We are looking for ways to train people how to get more done i.e. more
spindle time.

Here is a typical problem we encounter: One guy running two machines
Both machines are not running, in one machine is a large part that requires
a 20 minute setup, and will then run for about an hour unattended. For the other machine we have lined up a series of 10 parts, each of which requires
a 3 minute setup and have 10 minutes of run time. Which machines does he
tackle first? or does he do both?

How much spindle time per guy or per machine does a shop get per hour
the guy runs it?

[DareBee]

Assuming both machines are running work that is the same priority. I feel it is more productive to keep the long runtime going non-stop and fill in with the short runtime.
It is hard to get much done in a 10 minute cycle.
Maybe you should give some thought to a manual load pallet for the short run parts, that way machine load time will be less than a minute instead of three.
No matterwhatyou do ther will be times when both machines are waiting for setup at some point in time.

[Geof]

....Here is a typical problem we encounter: One guy running two machines, both machines are not running, in one machine is a large part that requires a 20 minute setup, and will then run for about an hour unattended. For the other machine we have lined up a series of 10 parts, each of which requires a 3 minute setup and have 10 minutes of run time. Which machines does he tackle first? or does he do both?....

Tackle long runtime machine first and the result is you miss two loads on the short runtime machine and it takes 23 minutes to get both machines running.

Tackle short runtime machine first and you get this machine running in 3 minutes. At the end of 13 minutes you have the long runtime machine partly loaded and you stop to reload the the short runtime machine, get it going again by 16 minutes and go back to the other machine. At the end of 26 minutes the long runtime machine is up and running and the short runtime machine is ready for reloading and you have two parts off this machine.

The choice seems simple to me.

[dkowalcz]

I find it works to try and even out the times between two machines so that the work paces out well. Spend an hour setting everything up in the morning, then run two machines all day - say machine 1 spits out a part every 5 minutes, during which I can get 3 on machine 2. 3, 1, 3, 1, 3, 1, and the day is over...

Note that it always takes longer to run two machines with one guy - he has to do everything he'd ordinarily do to run each seperately, plus run back and forth.

The exception is if the deadline is bearing down (they need it NOW!!!) - I just stand on the one machine that has to do it until it's done. Also, if the cycle is under a minute, just camp one machine - it doesn't work to try to be quicker than that.

In your scenario, I'd actually start the "10 minuter" first and get it moving, and then use the first two or three 10 minute intervals to set up the hour long cut. Interesting that my instinct differs from DareBee's, maybe we should work it out longhand and see which is quicker - maybe it's a wash?

[Geof]

Maybe it's a wash?

I think it is always more productive to get the short runtime machine going first. Even if in this example the 20 minute load extended to 25 minutes because of the interruption it will still work out more productive.

[REVCAM_Bob]

Yes, it is interesting how answers come back different. I find the same in
my shop. It makes it hard to train when 3 different managers have 3 different
answers as to the correct approach.

Has anyone seen any theory books, training material or other examples?

[Geof]

[QUOTE=REVCAM_Bob... It makes it hard to train when 3 different managers have 3 different answers as to the correct approach...[/QUOTE]

Given that with two machines you only have two options, assuming the guy does not have four arms and can reach both machines simultaneously, I think the manager that comes up with a third option should be given a gold star for ingenuity.

[lakeside]

I Have Had Theee PrototRak Running At The Same Time But When Cycle Time Made That Pracital. Most Manger Are So Consumed By The Ideas Of Jit And Pull System And Multi-tasking There Are Living A Pipe Dream. Why Would Some One Bust There Butt Running More Than One Machine If It Not Pracital Let Face The Fact That Now A Day A Good Machinist Can Tell His Boss To Stick it Up His Septic Chute Because Companies Are A Dime A Dozen That Need The Skill We Have

[Edster]

I'd fire you if you told me that at my shop

I run two machines all the time. I'd get the one with the longer cycle time set up and running first. Then use the time between cycles to set up the other machine. That way I'm not running all over the place.

[WhiteTiger]

I'm not so sure about the hop back and forth scenario. Seems like a recipe for damage/injury to me.

Do half of one setup. then go do something entirely different, then come back and pick up the unfinished long job. Doesn't seem particularly economical to me to be gambling with waste, damage and injury for the sake of a couple cigarettes worth of time.


Tiger

[Geof]

I'm not so sure about the hop back and forth scenario. Seems like a recipe for damage/injury to me.

Do half of one setup. then go do something entirely different, then come back and pick up the unfinished long job. Doesn't seem particularly economical to me to be gambling with waste, damage and injury for the sake of a couple cigarettes worth of time.


Tiger

Okay, load the short runtime machine first and then let it sit for ten minutes or so until the other is done. This way you get one part off it during the first 23 minutes.

[lakeside]

[QUOTE=Edster]I'd fire you if you told me that at my shop

AND I'VE BEEN FIRED FOR THAT. MACHINE SHOPS ARE A DIME A DOZEN LOOK AT MOSTER CAREER BUILDS OR THIS SITE(HOW MANY PROGRAMMING JOBS DO YOU SEE MR MACHINE SHOP OWNER) IF YOU HAVE THE SKILL YOU DO NEED TO PUT UP WITH “DO THIS OR ELSE”. 20 YEARS AGO MACHINE SHOP HAD A LARGE WORK FORCE TO DRAW FROM BUT WHEN A FRAMER CAN MAKE TWICE AS MUCH AS A MACHINIST WHY WOULD A KID SPEND HIS TIME TO MAKE YOU RICH OH IF I RUN TWO MACHINE FOR YOU, YOU MAKE TWICE AS MUCH PER HOUR ON ME AND WHAT YOU'LL GIVE ME $1.00/HOUR MORE. WHAT THAT IN MY POCKET $30/WEEK AFTER TAXES I SPEND MORE ON TIPS IN A WEEK THAN THAT. SO YES MACHINE SHOP ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND IF YOUR BOSS EVER SAYS “DO THIS OR ELSE” LAUGH IN HIS FACE

[little bubba]

Heres a novel idea, how about the suit comes onto the floor once an hour and keeps the short run machine going while the grunt gets the long run machine going.

I'm on the floor all the time helping keep the machines going, granted its usually only 3 machines, sometimes 4, sometimes 5 plus a bandsaw, drill press and assembly work. I stress the fact to my employees that machine time is money, if it sits for a minute, we lose a dollar, we can always make up human time with more hands, but we only have so many spindles, keep 'em running. I'll give them priorities, such as I need this machine before that machine, or this is super HOT. I mostly leave it up to them, if they can't figure out how to be productive, then they don't have a job, its really simple.

Also, get in there and help them out a bit, if your asking one guy to run 2 or 3 machines, he is going to need a bit of help. Catch them up on their deburring if they are behind, load up the machines when they are in the bathroom. Tell them once in a while to go check their e-mail, and do their job for 10 minutes or so. If they know you can do it, and are willing to do it, the respect will flow and the job will get done.

I had a bunch of stuff to get done Saturday, so I asked everybody to come in. The perk, chinese food, on me. Bringing back the scrap, hand them a $20, $40 or $50 for the really good ones, buy pizza on Friday.

Keep them happy and motivated, show them that you're willing, able and do work harder and faster than you expect them to work. Show them what your doing when your sitting at your desk so they don't think your slacking. When your jawing with a potential customer for an hour, tell them the potential and explain what you were talking about, or better yet, get them in on the conversation. A simple "what should WE do" as opposed to "I did or think we should do this". Brings them into the mix and gives them a sense of ownership.

Do these simple little things and you won't have to figure out how to train sombody to keep two machines running, they'll figure out the best way, and that best way is the way that will make you the most money.

[lakeside]

Also, get in there and help them out a bit, .

YOU'RE A MAN THAT UNDERSTANDS TEAM WORK.
THAT WHAT A LOT OF MANGERS DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I'M SURE THAT YOU HAVE NERVER HAD TO SAY "DO THIS OR ELSE". BECAUSE YOUR MACHINIST WOULD SHOW YOU THE REPECT THAT YOU SHOW THEM. IT TO BAD THAT MORE COMPANIES CAN'T SEE THIS

[Edster]

AND I'VE BEEN FIRED FOR THAT. MACHINE SHOPS ARE A DIME A DOZEN LOOK AT MOSTER CAREER BUILDS OR THIS SITE(HOW MANY PROGRAMMING JOBS DO YOU SEE MR MACHINE SHOP OWNER) IF YOU HAVE THE SKILL YOU DO NEED TO PUT UP WITH “DO THIS OR ELSE”. 20 YEARS AGO MACHINE SHOP HAD A LARGE WORK FORCE TO DRAW FROM BUT WHEN A FRAMER CAN MAKE TWICE AS MUCH AS A MACHINIST WHY WOULD A KID SPEND HIS TIME TO MAKE YOU RICH OH IF I RUN TWO MACHINE FOR YOU, YOU MAKE TWICE AS MUCH PER HOUR ON ME AND WHAT YOU'LL GIVE ME $1.00/HOUR MORE. WHAT THAT IN MY POCKET $30/WEEK AFTER TAXES I SPEND MORE ON TIPS IN A WEEK THAN THAT. SO YES MACHINE SHOP ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND IF YOUR BOSS EVER SAYS “DO THIS OR ELSE” LAUGH IN HIS FACE

I have a low tolerance for BS at my shop. You'd be gone in a heartbeat. Your bs attitude is posionous, and I'd sh*t can you before you infected my good workers. I'm a small shop owner, like a owner operator truck driver. I set all my machines up, then I get a 10.00/hr worker to load and unload parts. If they can run two machines at once why can't you? Let me give you a hint. It's you're attitude. Btw if you're such a great machinist why don't you start your own shop. Then tell me what you would do if someone tells you "the boss" what they are going to do and what there not going to do. I can't stand to hear employees whine, they must think I care or something. It's funny to hear them complain about working over 40 hours when I reguarly work 70. Most people don't even know what it takes to run a shop, so when you get to the same side of the fence as me..............

[lakeside]

[QUOTE=Edster]I have a low tolerance for BS at my shop. You'd be gone in a heartbeat. QUOTE]

I BET YOU HAVE AN ADD IN THE PAPER EVEY OTHER MONTH LOOKING FOR MACHINIST. I ALWAY LUAGH AT EMPLOYERS LIKE YOU. WE HAVE TO WORK TOGHER NOT SLEEP TOGHER. IF YOUR ATTUIDE IS IT MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. I BET MOST PEOPLE IN YOUR AREA ALREDY KNOW THIS. YOU ARE ONE OF THE "DIME A DOZEN COMPAINIES". IT NOT 1950 ANY MORE MR MACHINE SHOP OWER. THAT WHY I LUAGH AT PEOPLE WHO HAVE THIS POSTISION. YOU THINK THAT WORKER NOW A DAY WILL PUT UP WITH A GUY LIKE YOU. HA HA HA WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[little bubba]

YOU'RE A MAN THAT UNDERSTANDS TEAM WORK.
THAT WHAT A LOT OF MANGERS DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I'M SURE THAT YOU HAVE NERVER HAD TO SAY "DO THIS OR ELSE". BECAUSE YOUR MACHINIST WOULD SHOW YOU THE REPECT THAT YOU SHOW THEM. IT TO BAD THAT MORE COMPANIES CAN'T SEE THIS

Sadly my company doesn't really follow this philosphy. I run the shop, the owner keeps his hands pretty much completely out of it. The packaging/shipping/sales/purchasing side of the company are a pretty miserable bunch. I just try to keep my people happy, which in turn keeps me happy, and makes me money. If I feel the need to say "do this or else", I'll usually just say "your fired". I don't need that crap, it drags everybody down, along with the bottom line.

I don't understand managers like that either, they think its a power thing, its not, its a job. I guess it all goes back to the honey and vinegar thing.

I had one supervisor in college that was as power trippy as one could get. She had been there 6 months and was bragging to everyone how she had already fired 50 people, we had a staff of about 15. So one day I'm taking my scheduled break and she starts chewing my head off, that I shouldn't be taking my break because this isn't done and this isn't done, shes dragging me all over the place showing me stuff not put away and dirty stuff. I tell her, that wasn't my assigned job today, so she asks "well whos fault is it!?!!" (the !!!! means she was screaming, I don't think she ever mastered her "inside" voice), and me being the smart ass that I am said "well, your the supervisor, so its your fault". I was scheduled only 3 hours a week for the rest of that summer. I consider it a good lesson in what not to do.

[lakeside]

[QUOTE=Edster] I get a 10.00/hr worker to load and unload parts. If they can run two machines at once why can't you?

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR I MAKE $25.00/HOUR 3D PROTOTYPE WORK RUN A SHOP THAT HAS 15 GUYS I SUB OUT WORK ALL DAY LONG AND I LOOK FOR SHOPS THAT HAVE MACHINIST NOT PART LOADERS MCDONELLS PAYS $10/HOUR IN MY AREA TO SAY "WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH YOUR ORDER SIR"

[lakeside]

I can't stand to hear employees whine, they must think I care or something. It's funny to hear them complain about working over 40 hours when I reguarly work 70.

I THINK THIS RESPOND SHOULD BE SEEN BY ANY COMPANY THAT TRYING TO GET MORE SPINDLE TIME OR CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY THEY CAN'T GET WORKERS

[Edster]

You know what, my customers don't put up with bs. They wan't to know how much and how long. They don't care why the part wasn't done. If I screw them over I don't have a job. That's the attitude I have at my shop. I don't need a "machinist" like you. I do all the hard stuff and leave all the rest to my mcdonalds workers. How does it feel to go home and tell the wife, "I lost my job today honney because I got in a pissing match with my boss?" I've never been fired because I bit the hand that fed me. I work a lot because I love my job! If I worked somewhere else I'd be fiddling around in the garage making something for my hobby anyway, now I just go to the shop and make money!