[carbidecraters]

I have seen damaged 40 and 50 tapers and have never seen a taper that causes a tool to stick. I have seen tool holders and every mechanical part above the top of the tool holder cause sticking but never a taper. Interesting read but the picture shows a questionable used tool next to the fabbed up spindle liner. I would like to see a new quality tool holder that sticks before I would rest a case on making a spindle liner. What you have done now has made your machine less rigid and could quit possibly crack the tapered inner shaft of the spindle or cause the entire assembly to come loose now if the material doesn't share the same coefficient of thermal expansion. Keep in mind these spindle pieces are held extremely tight.

Hmm sure brings up a lot of questions.

[victorofga]

I just checked pictures..
you could post directly on this topic, not on a link..

zooming in the toolholder and the spindle pictures... they are looking on photo they have chipmarks, inside in the spindle and on the toolholder taper too..
photos might not the best.. but it is what looking..

if taper is in reality what photo shows... then it also explain some.. the most precise taper will worth nothing if chips are inserted within tool changing..

can you upload here the photos?

[underthetire]

Inserts have been used for years. Mori used to have ceramic inserts. They never wore, but would crack if treated badly. I've have spindle rebuilders replace them with hardened steel on more than one occasion.

[stustev]

I have seen damaged 40 and 50 tapers and have never seen a taper that causes a tool to stick. I have seen tool holders and every mechanical part above the top of the tool holder cause sticking but never a taper. Interesting read but the picture shows a questionable used tool next to the fabbed up spindle liner. I would like to see a new quality tool holder that sticks before I would rest a case on making a spindle liner. What you have done now has made your machine less rigid and could quit possibly crack the tapered inner shaft of the spindle or cause the entire assembly to come loose now if the material doesn't share the same coefficient of thermal expansion. Keep in mind these spindle pieces are held extremely tight.

Hmm sure brings up a lot of questions.

I have Fadals also. No problem with tools sticking in the Fadal spindle tapers.
I was very hesitant at first. I had the insert made for six months or a year before installing the first one. Like you I wondered about the issues you raise. I waited a full year after installing the first insert. I waited another year after installing the second insert.
I have used new adapters in the sticking tapers and the new adapters stuck just as bad as the used holders. After the insert no adapters stick.
Theoretically it may be less rigid. Emperically the result is a MUCH more rigid cutting action, much better finish, longer tool life, more accurate parts.
After 10 years of experience with the inserts I have seen not one contraindicator.
I have 5 Haas machines. A VR11, VF10, VF6 and two VF4's. All with inserts and not one problem with rigidity, sticking, cracking, looseness.
I have no problem with Haas machines other than the spindle taper will bell mouth after a period of time. Sometimes the period of time is rather short ie 30 days.
After the insert is installed the machines run fine for a long time with regular maintenance.
Ask any question you want - I will try to answer.

[mactec54]

tjamsad

You should not of shown us those photos, they tell the story, of what is going on, I'm lost for words, as I could not believe what I was seeing

[tjamscad]

tjamsad

You should not of shown us those photos, they tell the story, of what is going on, I'm lost for words, as I could not believe what I was seeing

The tool holder was one that is not in service I just used it as a mock-up. The spindle is the actual spindle from the VF-10. I am not sure of what you are seeing but, I am not a spindle specialest. Please explain "I could not believe what I was seeing". I have enjoyed this discussion and am learning a lot from it.

[tjamscad]

Attachment 201058

[victorofga]

thank you to posting the pictures over here..
my concern is if you post on other website and picture get deleted this post becomes ""weird""' I cant find better word, because many post already on cnczone miss pictures, so readers don't know what actually happening..
so thank you again to post pictures here..

well... if it was your intention to get spindle specialist giving free opinion you, I think it might don't comes true..
I believe you have to take your spindle to a specialist, or you have to invite them in your shop.. im not really can imagine they reading cnczone and waiting opportunity giving free evaluations....

[mactec54]

tjamscad

I would hope that no spindle in use would look like that, Here is a photo of a Haas spindle, this one has been running 8 years 14 hours a day, & usually 7 day a week, I have some older & some newer, but they all look like this or better

[tjamscad]

That is pretty. Please tell me what I would have to do to get a spindle to look that way for that long.

[haastec]

tjamscad

I would hope that no spindle in use would look like that, Here is a photo of a Haas spindle, this one has been running 8 years 14 hours a day, & usually 7 day a week, I have some older & some newer, but they all look like this or better

That is impressive!! :cheers:

[handlewanker]

Hi, being a gentleman and not wanting to express doubt, I'd have to say that it appears that the tool never got removed from the spindle once in the entire 8 years.......pardon me for being a doubting Thomas.......there are no significant engagement marks around the drive dogs.......after 8 years of continuous use......I think as the Mythbusters would say......busted.
Ian.

[underthetire]

Surely looks like it was scotchbrited at minimum.

[mactec54]

Hi, being a gentleman and not wanting to express doubt, I'd have to say that it appears that the tool never got removed from the spindle once in the entire 8 years.......pardon me for being a doubting Thomas.......there are no significant engagement marks around the drive dogs.......after 8 years of continuous use......I think as the Mythbusters would say......busted.
Ian.

Sorry to be a spoiler, but for someone that does not have CNC experience, I'm not sure you are qualified to make such a comment, there is a tool change count for each tool that is changed on this machines, it is way over 100,000 tool changes on this machine, the older machines we have there spindles look just the same, with way more tool changes than this one has, so no Myth to be busted, I can post a photo of the count on the control when I get time

[mactec54]

Surely looks like it was scotchbrited at minimum.

Sorry no scotchbrite

Its called a spindle wiper, every machine has one, & is used every day on startup, Each machine has there own tooling (no tools from other machines) all tools are always loaded with the same orientation, this is very important

There is much more I could add about taking care of you machine spindles, But no point when we have doubters on here I'm just wasting my time

I'm not saying we don't use scotchbrite sometimes I use, (light grey 400) to clean up the tool holders after a long run

[haastec]

That is pretty. Please tell me what I would have to do to get a spindle to look that way for that long.

As a compliment to mactec, it takes near OCD attention to detail regarding spindle and tool cleanliness.

Sorry to be a spoiler, but for someone that does not have CNC experience, I'm not sure you are qualified to make such a comment, there is a tool change count for each tool that is changed on this machines, it is way over 100,000 tool changes on this machine, the older machines we have there spindles look just the same, with way more tool changes than this one has, so no Myth to be busted, I can post a photo of the count on the control when I get time

I don't often see well used spindles that look as good as mactec's do, but every once in a while I am pleasantly surprised. I would venture to say that the rest of his machine looks every bit as nice as the spindle does. It takes work and employees that care (if you have them) to keep things this nice.

Well done mactec54!!

[Machineit]

As a compliment to mactec, it takes near OCD attention to detail regarding spindle and tool cleanliness.



I don't often see well used spindles that look as good as mactec's do, but every once in a while I am pleasantly surprised. I would venture to say that the rest of his machine looks every bit as nice as the spindle does. It takes work and employees that care (if you have them) to keep things this nice.

Well done mactec54!!

+1

Also, keep your coolant rich enough to prevent ANY rust from fumes or whatever and don't leave tools in the spindle overnight will also help.

Mike

[stustev]

+1

Also, keep your coolant rich enough to prevent ANY rust from fumes or whatever and don't leave tools in the spindle overnight will also help.

Mike

Our AS9100 states that we check the coolant concentration and ph daily and adjust as necessary.
Concentration within coolant manufacturer recommended specs.
PH at 8 to 8.5
We have logs to show what is being done.

[Machineit]

Our AS9100 states that we check the coolant concentration and ph daily and adjust as necessary.
Concentration within coolant manufacturer recommended specs.
PH at 8 to 8.5
We have logs to show what is being done.

I'm a big violator of just that! My own fault. It is just me and as the coolant gets more contaminated with all the crap and looks good, but is not, I get surprised when I come in in the morning and find my table and vises with a coating of rust. I'm trying to survive like all of us and at 66 it's tough. I get tired and lazy with 10 to 12 hours a day. Been trying to get better though!!!!!

Once stained though, not easy to make it look new though. When I bought my current machine, it had set for a year or more and was a real mess. The vises were covered in chips and goo and it took me days just to get them off and clean out the slots. One vise was not even salvageable and is still sitting under a bench and will probably never get used again.

Check your coolant for concentration often and keep it up. As they get contaminated with oils, plastics, and such, you can't use the meters with any reliance.

Mike

[fizzissist]

Sorry no scotchbrite

Its called a spindle wiper, every machine has one, & is used every day on startup, Each machine has there own tooling (no tools from other machines) all tools are always loaded with the same orientation, this is very important

There is much more I could add about taking care of you machine spindles, But no point when we have doubters on here I'm just wasting my time

I'm not saying we don't use scotchbrite sometimes I use, (light grey 400) to clean up the tool holders after a long run

Yawn. Spindle Weenie every day. Clean the holders everyday. Properly torque the pull studs. Throw away damaged collets. Thoroughly clean the collets, noses, threads, and ID of holders. Orient the tool the same way every time. Check your coolant concentration and pH regularly. Add the coolant to the water.... yada yada yada.

Nice to see that at least 2 of us do that. Nobody else in the shop will. :devious: