[Bryan Turner]

Hello,

Seem to have a way oil leak among the conglomeration of X-Y axis ports. Getting practically nothing up on Z and the "stroke" finishes in just a few seconds with a squishy sound down near the right-hand side of the machine base.

If I move the table all the way to the left, I can see the distributor in there.. but how do I access it? Remove the table? Lift the machine? I'm at a loss, anyone done this before?

Thanks!
--Bryan

[TurboStep]

anyone done this before?

Yep, been there!
The image shows how it all looks after removing the table.
I removed the gib and pulled off the motor and the X-Axis motor base. The table then slides off to the left (I hope I didn't miss anything). I mounted a plank of wood onto the top surface of the table just to protect it in case I did something stupid.
BEWARE the table is HEAVY. Just out of interest I sat it on my bathroom scales and with the plank of wood it came in at 72kg.
Think about what you're going to do with it in advance
The good news is that the table slide can stay on - that's a real pain to remove.
By the way, the strange looking thing packed in paper is obviously the ballscrew.
I have to rush off now but let me know if you need more info.
Good luck
Step

[Tbkahuna]

If I disconnect the stepper and box from the x-axis like Bryan Turner showed, will I have to loosen or remove the X gib to be able to move the table to the right to access the left oil manifold on a Series 2 1100 with out damaging anything? Can I use that method and move the table further to the right (with support for the table against the chip tray) to access the second oil manifold that is near the right side?

I have gone through the whole cleaning and lube checking again. The front x-axis slide still seems a little drier than I would like. I have tried to verify the hole from the banjo fitting to the slide is drilled through, and I think it is, but maybe it is clogged a little. Without doing anything but moving the table clear to the left, I can get my hand (barely) into the left end under the table to unscrew the banjo fitting and could see what looked like good oil flow out of the banjo. That seems to indicate that the port holes may not be clear enough on the front X-axis slide. I attempted to screw in a new banjo fitting, with a direct line to the pump to see what that produced, but gave up as I could not get that 6mm banjo fitting threaded into the hole from that end of the table. Can only do that by feel, and there was always a drop of oil getting on the fitting making it hard to hold onto to get it threaded. I am now back to thinking I will just move the table over to get access, and check it out directly.

I did buy some ATF to try to run through to see if I get any red on the front x-axis slide. I haven't tried that yet.

My other thought was to use a rubber stopper with the 4mm tubing through it that I could hold into that 6mm threaded hole where the banjo fitting goes, and run the oil line directly off the pump to see if it produces a lot more oil on that x-axis front slide.

[mountaindew]

I did buy some ATF to try to run through to see if I get any red on the front x-axis slide. I haven't tried that yet.

Might want to check if atf is safe for your Turcite Coated ways!

[TurboStep]

If I disconnect the stepper and box from the x-axis like Bryan Turner showed, will I have to loosen or remove the X gib to be able to move the table to the right to access the left oil manifold on a Series 2 1100 with out damaging anything? Can I use that method and move the table further to the right (with support for the table against the chip tray) to access the second oil manifold that is near the right side?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread I certainly would remove the X-axis gib to provide some play and prevent the weight of the table damaging the ways. The Series 2 table weighs 70kg (>150lb) so there will be quit a large force on the ends as the table hangs further out - potentially digging into the Turcite. I wouldn't want to rely on an additional support taking the weight properly unless there was enough play.
Bear in mind that the front X axis way only receives half the lubrication that the back way receives (in total). At the back, both the gib and the way receive the same lubrication (i.e. each has it's own restrictor) but at the front the lubrication from only one restrictor is divided between the dovetail and flat surfaces. The channels at the front are also not particularly well designed so the distribution between dovetail an flat surfaces is not ideal. I added a second restrictor in parallel in order to double up the flow to this area. All 3 axes "suffer" from the same issue. What you are seeing might possibly be quite normal.
Step

[Bryan Turner]

Excellent, thanks for the info! I thought it might require removing the table, was hoping there a bolt that would allow the distributor to pull out for service.

I assume yours is an 1100? The distributor looks different than my 770 Series 3. Dismantling instructions sound about right though, I'll check the manual.

What is the "table slide"? I thought the table just slid on dovetails?

[TurboStep]

Bryan, sorry I just assumed you must have a 1100 - for no apparent reason
The photo is from a 1100 series II.
I tried to avoid confusion by using the part names from the manual because I'm not familiar with all the right terms. The part that I was trying to identify is the block between the Y dovetails and the table. Basically the part you see in the photograph. It was just an irrelevant comment from my part, sometimes less is more!
Step

[SpruTormaCam]

Don't remove the table though!

I also recently had issues with my lube system and had to access the lube manifolds under the table. After agonizing over it for a couple days I just jumped in with reckless abandon and was surprised at how easy and fast it was.

First you should look at the Tormach manual, section 9.5.6 Adjusting Ballscrew Preload
The link to the manual is below if you forgot where yours is:

Direct Document and Software Download | Tormach LLC providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items.

And the exploded view document:

Direct Document and Software Download | Tormach LLC providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items.


1. pull off the motor
2. remove the bearing adjustment nut and lock nut (hooked spanner wrenches work best for this)
3. remove the X axis motor base

Done!

now the table will slide easily by hand far enough to give you plenty of access to both sides without having to remove the table (which sounds scary to me)

probably the hardest part is adjusting the ballscrew preload on reassembly which is also easy or maybe I just got lucky.

Mark...

[TurboStep]

Don't remove the table though!

Sounds like a good idea... but I'm not sure I'd have done it that way. The 770 table is probably quite a bit lighter than that of the 1100 but so much weight sticking even further out, being supported by only half the width of the slide? That's quite a long cantilever.... hmm. I'm usually much, much, much too cautious with such things but I wouldn't want to risk damaging the way coatings.
Step

[TXFred]

I'm updating this thread to share some advice on what not to do.

I attempted to clean my orifice valves by soaking them in carb cleaner for a few days. Unfortunately, the check valve inside has a rubber seal, and the carb cleaner caused it to swell up. The seals increased in diameter until they completely blocked the passageways. So now I'm going to replace all of the valves on my mill.

Don't use carb cleaner on these valves!

Also, SpruTormaCam told me how he took the valves apart. He held the body in the collet and gripped the steel insert with an ER collet. I didn't have a collet handy, but was able to grab the valve body in a vise and grip the insert with a pair of wire cutters (being gentle). Be careful that you don't lose the tiny spring inside. It likes to leap out when you remove the steel insert.

[SpruTormaCam]

Oops, also assumed you had a 1100

the link for all the Tomach manuals and exploded views just in case:
Tormach Product Manuals | Tormach LLC providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items.

[Tbkahuna]

Step,

That helps. I wondered if that might just be the nature of the beast. If I separate the Z axis oil circuit and use a second pump, then I would also get better flow through all of the X and Y circuits, but would expect to "lose" more oil. If I go that route, I will also relocate the splitter that is under the base. I was even considering a dedicated fitting and oil source for that front X slide, like my testing idea, just for peace of mind.

If I can access the left manifold, then I might try using a different restrictor size. I was concerned that if I messed with the balance, I would just starve another area, and have a whole project trying to rebalance the flow. If I separate the Z flow, then at least I would only have to worry about the X and Y, and could just make sure everything gets plenty of oil. The restrictors I have looked at on my S2 1100 are all #4s, as well as the replacements I have gotten from Tormach. That is for both the manifold restrictors, and the gib fittings.

I have seen that others have used ATF on a regular basis in the machines, and have seen no reports of any damage or issues from that, so I thought that may be a way to verify flow to the sliding surface, and how much.

Thanks for the help.

[mountaindew]

I have seen that others have used ATF on a regular basis in the machines, and have seen no reports of any damage or issues from that, so I thought that may be a way to verify flow to the sliding surface, and how much.

Thanks for the help.

I was just throwing out a warning.
What I see others do, makes me question just about everything these days

[MFchief]

Off topic, but plus 1 on dew's comment, you can hurt yourself laughing at what some folks do on YouTube.

Terry

[Bryan Turner]

Hello!

Thought I'd update this thread on the results.

After studying the pics above and the exploded view, I decided there's an easier route. No spanner wrenches or removing gibs, etc:
- Power up the machine
- Drive the table all the way to the RIGHT
- Unbolt the stepper box from the table
- Drive the stepper a few inches to the LEFT to disengage it from the table
- Slide the table all the way to the RIGHT (or as I did, just far enough to rest on some support blocks)

I did not see any leaks in the main manifold, so I'm a bit stumped.
- Removed, then plugged the T-manifold that feeds the XY table.
- Pumped oil up to the Z manifold and confirmed that oil does get up there.
- Cleaned out the table and tray, then force-pumped oil into the XY table (pressed the plunger in forcefully)
- Oil appeared heavily from the right Y-axis way, and the Y-axis ballscrew.

Not sure how to get down there.. probably have to slide the whole Y-axis bed off? Ugh...

To be fair, there may not be any issue, just want to make sure it's all tight down there.
--Bryan

1) Removed tool tray and unbolted driver box:
Attachment 204942

2) Under power, drove table to the left, separating driver box from table:
Attachment 204944

3) Manually slide table to the right, supported by blocking:
Attachment 204948

4) Access to oil manifold:
Attachment 204950

[SpruTormaCam]

I like the way you just unbolted the stepper box. Sure makes things simpler. Unfortunately on the 1100 there are two manifolds, one on each side so this method would just expose one of them.

As far a exposing the stuff for the Y axis, I found removing both bellows gave me all the access needed to check stuff out.

By the way, I had several of the orifice nozzles that were stuck. I took all of them out, tested each on the bench, rebuilt about half, and replaced four. With this type of lube system there can be several nozzles clogged and you would never know it unless they are checked periodically. My mill is three years old.

Mark...

[keen]

I like the way you just unbolted the stepper box. Sure makes things simpler. Unfortunately on the 1100 there are two manifolds, one on each side so this method would just expose one of them.

As far a exposing the stuff for the Y axis, I found removing both bellows gave me all the access needed to check stuff out.

By the way, I had several of the orifice nozzles that were stuck. I took all of them out, tested each on the bench, rebuilt about half, and replaced four. With this type of lube system there can be several nozzles clogged and you would never know it unless they are checked periodically. My mill is three years old.

Mark...

I agree with that - I have had a couple of these machines apart and can imagine that quite a lot of Tormach machines will have oil outlets that are either blocked, leaking, or flowing unevenly and will not be lubricating at all points.

It is a good plan to additionally apply lube from time to time directly on to the slides and ballscrews so you know they are at least getting that oil . Keen

[twocik]

Thx for the response guys !

It's now almost noon and I've been up all night ! Job is not done until the job is done ! Team no sleep

I removed just about everything but the ballscrew, motor housing, etc.. I'm still in the middle of a few jobs and really can't have her down at the moment. Here's what I did, so far looks like everything is back to normal. After removing 22lbs of Ti chips, I finally was able to get under the table and pull the plunger & watch for the oil waterfall. Found that when I plunged it immediately dumped the whole shot out in less than 2 secs. Under the table with a LED & mirror looking at the left side - X, I saw the oil waterfall pouring out, but on the right +X very very small amount (Ok now we're cooking). Next I wiped, pumped again, jogged and dry checked each dovetail to see which is dry/wet. My +Y was bone dry, everything else was lubed up ! So something was wrong with the Y gib and oil line. Before I went digging the Y line out, I pulled the line outer bending spring back just a tiny bit and noticed the line was still full ( check ! ). That now only leaves me thinking that the gib port(s) are blocked. Well whaddya know !

- I removed both Y bellows
- Removed both Y gib screws
- Removed the Y gib
- Finely sanded the gib and deburred the rough edges that were leftover from the factory (WTH !!!) My machine has zero rust and inside the gib were tiny rusty fragments in the port hole ! After I cleaned the gib up I installed it back into the Y and hit the plunger... Back to the 9-12 secs and could feel the oil everywhere. Now it's got me wanting to check all of the my gibs ! Well I hope that helps someone, what a real pain !

[keen]

Thx for the response guys !

It's now almost noon and I've been up all night ! Job is not done until the job is done ! Team no sleep

I removed just about everything but the ballscrew, motor housing, etc.. I'm still in the middle of a few jobs and really can't have her down at the moment. Here's what I did, so far looks like everything is back to normal. After removing 22lbs of Ti chips, I finally was able to get under the table and pull the plunger & watch for the oil waterfall. Found that when I plunged it immediately dumped the whole shot out in less than 2 secs. Under the table with a LED & mirror looking at the left side - X, I saw the oil waterfall pouring out, but on the right +X very very small amount (Ok now we're cooking). Next I wiped, pumped again, jogged and dry checked each dovetail to see which is dry/wet. My +Y was bone dry, everything else was lubed up ! So something was wrong with the Y gib and oil line. Before I went digging the Y line out, I pulled the line outer bending spring back just a tiny bit and noticed the line was still full ( check ! ). That now only leaves me thinking that the gib port(s) are blocked. Well whaddya know !

- I removed both Y bellows
- Removed both Y gib screws
- Removed the Y gib
- Finely sanded the gib and deburred the rough edges that were leftover from the factory (WTH !!!) My machine has zero rust and inside the gib were tiny rusty fragments in the port hole ! After I cleaned the gib up I installed it back into the Y and hit the plunger... Back to the 9-12 secs and could feel the oil everywhere. Now it's got me wanting to check all of the my gibs ! Well I hope that helps someone, what a real pain !

Hi - My Z gib was blocked too. Keen

[Tbkahuna]

I am finally going to be able to do the rest of the oil system work tomorrow. I am planning to disconnect the table from the motor and move the table to the right to get access to everything. In following up on the suggestion to remove the gib, I was looking at the X-axis gib and it looks like the big end of the gib is on the left... on the motor end. It looks like the stepper mount might be in the way of removing the gib to the left, but might clear it if the motor box is rotated a bit. Is that that correct? The gib oil fitting is on the right end of the x-axis gib. In my mind I thought that would be the end that the gib would come out from, but to my eyes it looks like it comes out on the left side.

I will get the motor and mount disconnected from the table and the limit stop removed from the left side, and the table should slide to the right on my support blocking until I can access the left manifold and maybe the banjo fitting for the front slide and dovetail with a little reach. I plan to see how that goes and what I find to see if I need to do any more.