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IndustryArena Forum > CAM Software > BobCad-Cam > So many limitations
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  1. #1
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    So many limitations

    1st off I know I am not popular on this sub forum for speaking my opinions, and poor wording of it, but do not use this software for hobby. 2nd Bobcad knew this when they found out, threw a 3rd party, I was looking to update my cam software. 3rd they knew what I was coming from and said it was more powerful and yes I forgone the demo because they talked me out of it which is definitely my fault but it was a time thing and I did a 10 minute online demo but guess I just seen what I wanted to or they wanted me to....... BUT..............

    BobCad has so many limitations and workarounds I just don't see how it can be marketed outside of very small shops or hobby shops. I mean you can't even use a corner rounding tool with out workarounds........ Is bobcads support because of price? Mostly hobbyist users?

    Before this V25 I have not used it since they had V19 out and that was pretty poor and I expressed this in are conversation before buying but although it is way better then it was I still don't see why they would try to overreach on there target customers.

    Now please don't take offense to this I am only trying to see if I am missing something. I would like some serious conversation before I try and get refunded. So far it seems for me that more monies is lost in time wasted over a couple year span then saved in up front cost. Is there a list of peoples thoughts on short comings anywhere? Or maybe a pro and con list?

    Can one be made? Stickied maybe? I know in my search I would of loved to find something like that before purchasing but can find nothing. And I think it could benefit them also. 1) they would have a list of things people can not live without and 2) would stop people from feeling shortchanged that have bought it not knowing.(Although 2 could be solved by actually doing a demo but again I, personally, didn't have the time and should of took the time)

    Again I am not trying to bash BobCad but am talking about things I just am not sure I can live without. I also realize that bang for buck is not horrible for small shops and hobbyist but for medium or larger shops? Just not sure. It really just feels like really good entry level software. And some of that feeling just seems like it would be easy fixes to me but I am not a software engineer so don't know. That is why the long winded question.

    They keep touting how Boeing, Lockheed, cat and others were using this software but with the lack of form tools or basic corner rounding tools and very little pocketing path power it just seems like a lie that they sold me on.

    KNOW again I am not bashing or looking for arguments but more of a company's board discussing business. Is the power in the upfront savings? I really want to like this software 1) the price 2) company size(you almost always get better CS from smaller companies)

    And not to beat a dead horse but can we please keep this a grown up conversation and not like I just told a your mamas so fat joke on the playground

    I am going to demo a few others now(yes I learned my lesson there) to see if I can compile a pro and con list and possibly get a real in depth article written and possibly published.

    Thanks again,

  2. #2
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    I really don't feel like a long drawn out reply,But I will comment a little bit.Yes,for me it is all about the $$$$.I can get BoB to do everything I need to in a fair amount of time.I am a one man show,I do not use my CNC daily.I do no mold work.Work arounds are nothing for the volume of work I do.I do onesy,twosy,the parts have to be machined right and they must be Beautiful.Something about Hot Rod Car Owners,Custom Motorcycle,Blown V Drive Boat Racers,they all want parts that function and look great.I use a lot of different machines and methods to accomplish this.Machining ain't easy,otherwise everybody would do it.So for me BoB is a great fit,especially the $$$$,,,different shops and people,it might not make sense.

    Yes,you messed up on Demo.I'll leave it at that.

    I do not know exactly what you have.I am guessing 3axis pro.If that is so 2 things come to mind.
    (1)It is priced way below most other softwares that are in its league
    (2)You do not have all that BoB has to offer.With more $$$$ you can upgrade from what you have and have a much more powerful software,BUT if you do,for Christ Sakes Demo it 1st.
    I am not the one to fill you in on what else is available,as I know little about it.But I know there are 6 more multi-axis tool paths and I know there is a Pro version of simulation(not the one that comes with 3 axis pro),I know BoBART has a pro version.More money,but still below the the others.
    The Corner Rounding,along with pipe threads are some of the things that have been mentioned before,and I believe the response was the were working on it.Whatever that means ? Hopefully next update.

    This is where Al will hopefully respond and let you know better what all there is that might satisfy your thirst for more power and complete software.

  3. #3
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    I guess I left out a couple of things.Although personally I do not use this as it is like a foreign language,but there are users on here that get that PP tweaked just right and use scripting.Adds a whole lot on how you get those little things to work.My understanding a lot of the Big softwares you cannot do this to.
    Also do not know what you mean by too little pocketing tool path control.
    As I have never played with other CAM's I do not know what else can or should be available ? ? ?

  4. #4
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    Thanks Jrmach,

    This is exactly what I am trying to find out. Yes I got 2 seats of the 3 axis pro with nest and standard 4 axis and one seat of the 3 axis pro only.(There recommendation on what I needed to accomplish) I can see for you this makes perfect sense. I think with everything there is pro's and con's but even though I know now I should of did a demo( But there is more to this but I don't think I should put it here), demoing 3-4 different software's could eat up a lot of valuable time. So that is why I want feed back. (I guess it is also a bit of a reason some people never change software) That is what I am trying to find out where it makes sense and where it don't. Some times up front savings don't mean you got anything cheaper. And again I am not bashing the software for what it cost there is definite value there. And one big pro is it is used on the hobby level which usually has talent behind it and problem solving can be had more easily. But I am trying to find out if it is right for me, for what I need to accomplish and how quick.

  5. #5
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    Yes, I am familiar with PP scripting have done quite a bit of it in my previous software but only a little with this so far. But some of my limitations can't be fixed by that.

    As far as pocketing it takes a lot more work to get some simple things accomplished and when working with models, geometry needs to be added a lot to get these workarounds to work.

  6. #6
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    Just to be clear,I use the software to make money.Some of the cars I make parts for go in excess off 200mph,some of the V-Drive boats are approaching 140 mph (and that is scary). Some of my parts are on the hobby level of difficulty,and a large majority,just because they got to be perfect are definitely to be be done by the professionals only.Some of my machining takes place on existing parts that cost up the A$$ if I screw up.And most of my parts are engineered and designed by the customer and me.I am the draftsman %95 of the time.I also make parts for various other companies.I use manual mills ,lathes, grinders,saws(4),sanders,buffers,etc. and have just about every dang tool made to accessorize them.I have arbor press for broaching,have tig,mig,stick welders.Then the guy I share a shop with is into custom painting and metal fab.My point being,is I use BoB in a non-hobby way.I just do not do production.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pp-TG View Post
    Yes, I am familiar with PP scripting have done quite a bit of it in my previous software but only a little with this so far. But some of my limitations can't be fixed by that.

    As far as pocketing it takes a lot more work to get some simple things accomplished and when working with models, geometry needs to be added a lot to get these workarounds to work.
    And that is where you should come here and ask a question.100 eyes and 50 minds are better than just you.Coud be something simple,you just don't know how to do it yet.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmach View Post
    Just to be clear,I use the software to make money.Some of the cars I make parts for go in excess off 200mph,some of the V-Drive boats are approaching 140 mph (and that is scary). Some of my parts are on the hobby level of difficulty,and a large majority,just because they got to be perfect are definitely to be be done by the professionals only.Some of my machining takes place on existing parts that cost up the A$$ if I screw up.And most of my parts are engineered and designed by the customer and me.I am the draftsman %95 of the time.I also make parts for various other companies.I use manual mills ,lathes, grinders,saws(4),sanders,buffers,etc. and have just about every dang tool made to accessorize them.I have arbor press for broaching,have tig,mig,stick welders.Then the guy I share a shop with is into custom painting and metal fab.My point being,is I use BoB in a non-hobby way.I just do not do production.
    This is what I was assuming you were referring to, one off ish type of work. You definitely sounded like you were beyond hobby work and relying on the software for income. And I think with workarounds any software to a good programmer is capable but is it cost effective?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmach View Post
    And that is where you should come here and ask a question.100 eyes and 50 minds are better than just you.Coud be something simple,you just don't know how to do it yet.
    And that could be, and that was part of my reasoning for a list of sorts of things people thought were lacking or positive. Then it would be easy to see for potential buyers and current users and maybe for BCC what people want it to do and what they can do and what they need a work around for. I am also interested in this for comparison reasons. I came from decade old software before this but it was top of it's game. I have demo's coming for my olds current release and also gibbs and a few others. In my opinion it don't take long to learn software's pro's and cons. I know people in media and would really love to write a review based on this now that I must invest the time in a few of them to at least offset my time.

  10. #10
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    I was not saying a work-around,I was simply stating maybe you don't know it all.Like the pocketing question,what would you like to do that you cannot or have to use a work-around ?
    A new user that has barely used it,who for the most part has not asked for help is going to write a Blog or whatever from his limited experience and ask others (credible sources no doubt)for their .02 also? ? ?
    Then Internet spread the word and save the world.
    People will believe it though,I'll give you that much.""I read it on the Internet it must be true""

    Why don't you list your shortcomings here,,,and then ask if anyone has an answer.An answer is not necessarily a work-around.Could be you do not know the software all the way.Starting with that pocketing question,as you got my attention on it.

  11. #11
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    FWIW, I felt exactly as you did when we purchased V21 - V22. This is not a hobby shop although we only had 3 VMCs at the time. I posted almost the same sentiments on the BobCAD user forum - specifically, if I recall correctly, I asked if BCC was for hobby shops or if "real" shops had simply found themselves too far invested to give up on it waiting for basic tools I felt should be in the software.

    The answer I've found years later is maybe it's a bit of both. The price certainly makes it a top choice for anyone but particularly for the hobby user that may have more time than money. Some shops (and I would include myself in this) have simply grown with BobCAD, dealt with any limitations, and have weighed learning an entirely new system and a greater cost vs sticking with what you know and what you have become profitable with.

    Six years later and 5 additional VMCs later I'm still programming with BobCAD. Last year we spent more on one seat of SolidWorks than I have on 7 years of BobCAD upgrades and updates (V21-V25). With only 8 machining centers and one CNC lathe, we aren't a huge shop but It's not like we can't afford other CAM software. If I ever move to another software it will be for the same reason I bought BCC in the first place. I would have to encounter a very profitable job that I can't program with my current setup. So far there's not been anything I've encountered that couldn't be done with what I have and I would venture to say that my parts are toward the higher end of complexity for 3 axis. Mostly food industry with high surface finish requirements. I make tens of thousands of some parts and I make tens of other parts. But they all get programmed in BobCAD.

    I almost didn't reply to this because this horse is so far beaten it's barely recognizable. There are literally hundreds of these threads and I'm pretty sure most of them were from fairly newish users (such as I was). The only thing I would find interesting as far as a discussion goes is how many people posted a "BobCAD is so limited" thread and are still using it years later. I'm not ashamed to say I was one of them. I will always have gripes, frustrations, and suggestions on how BobCAD could be better of course. Maybe for what you do there is a better CAM alternative? No one can answer that but you and this is probably not the place. This is a sub-forum for BobCAD users. The answers you seek if I'm reading you right are found in the general CAD/CAM forum. You will get exactly what you are asking for there.

  12. #12
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    Sorry, but no matter how you wish to be thought of, or the excuse you write, you are just a basher.

    Start with the thread title! That alone states "I'm here to start trouble and bash this software!" It's just like going the Mori forum and saying "All Mori's Are Junk And Never Buy One!", then asking a question about how to do something you could not figure out about it. It's no different.

    Bob is not the absolute least expensive and by far it is not the most expensive. But, for the price it is one of the best in its class.

    What you may call a work around is just a standard procedure with a normal person who is using the software. As far as using a corner rounding endmill, I just used one yesterday with BobCad without any issue at all. Approximately 43 feet of it all together!

    You are just feeling buyers remorse. In your mind, you made a mistake in buying this software and you feel the need to strike out about it. Kind of like voting for the wrong President and being very upset with what he does. The good news is that you do not have to wait 4 years to fix this situation!

    Put the software up for sale and get one you can be happy with. I'm sure that you have researched the rest and know which one you want, right?

    List your software for sale now and rest your mind. What do you need to get for it? Think of it as a healing therapy.

    M
    Two Haas VF-2's, Haas HA5C, Haas HRT-9, Hardinge CHNC 1, Bother HS-300 Wire EDM, BobCAD V23, BobCAD V28

  13. #13
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    I have stated before:
    For the price I think Bobcad is an excellent value . My only worry is that it is moving away from the Hobbyist market in which very few can even think of Forth and Fifth axis. Back in V19 and V20 it was more of a challenge to get tool paths for 3D mold work and you had to use your head on how to win at this Big Kids video game, but what the heck it almost made it fun. I think that Bobcad has made excellent progress for the $$$ in Solids and 3D tool path strategies.
    One thing that I think is very important is to use the Demos and only use the strategies that will be in the package that you will be purchasing.
    The Demos have all the bells and whistles so make sure that you do not get mislead by the sales staff which for me has always been a little aggressive as price is only good today. Don't worry if you even give them a clue that you might be interested but don't have time to talk right now (with a customer) that will give you time to check out the demo in more detail. I do think that they will be calling you back as most of us know after all we were the one that gave them our # in the first place. (dammit)
    What I would like to see more than a pros and con list is a SURVAY Count of Hobbyist or Shops that use Bobcad for programing in other than basic 2D in a heavy industrial setting.

    For my use ----- Hobbyist (finally)
    2D work ----- works fine
    3D work------ works but have to usually do work- around to get the results that I desire (but I like the challenge to see if I can win) but for price of the software, possible good tool path and a video game cool.

    V25 Pro

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmach View Post
    I was not saying a work-around,I was simply stating maybe you don't know it all.Like the pocketing question,what would you like to do that you cannot or have to use a work-around ?
    A new user that has barely used it,who for the most part has not asked for help is going to write a Blog or whatever from his limited experience and ask others (credible sources no doubt)for their .02 also? ? ?
    Then Internet spread the word and save the world.
    People will believe it though,I'll give you that much.""I read it on the Internet it must be true""

    Why don't you list your shortcomings here,,,and then ask if anyone has an answer.An answer is not necessarily a work-around.Could be you do not know the software all the way.Starting with that pocketing question,as you got my attention on it.
    You said yourself you have no cam experience out side of BobCad so I just don't think you may understand I guess..... Look at pocketing and its options it is pretty easy to see what you have and don't. If you have a part, lets say a 3" X 5" and it has two boss's in the center that are raised .100 above the rest of the part how do you do it? How many features do you need to accomplish this? How much extra geometry needs to be added to do it?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machineit View Post
    Sorry, but no matter how you wish to be thought of, or the excuse you write, you are just a basher.

    Start with the thread title! That alone states "I'm here to start trouble and bash this software!" It's just like going the Mori forum and saying "All Mori's Are Junk And Never Buy One!", then asking a question about how to do something you could not figure out about it. It's no different.

    Bob is not the absolute least expensive and by far it is not the most expensive. But, for the price it is one of the best in its class.

    What you may call a work around is just a standard procedure with a normal person who is using the software. As far as using a corner rounding endmill, I just used one yesterday with BobCad without any issue at all. Approximately 43 feet of it all together!

    You are just feeling buyers remorse. In your mind, you made a mistake in buying this software and you feel the need to strike out about it. Kind of like voting for the wrong President and being very upset with what he does. The good news is that you do not have to wait 4 years to fix this situation!

    Put the software up for sale and get one you can be happy with. I'm sure that you have researched the rest and know which one you want, right?

    List your software for sale now and rest your mind. What do you need to get for it? Think of it as a healing therapy.

    M
    Oh for god sake..............

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF. View Post
    I have stated before:
    For the price I think Bobcad is an excellent value . My only worry is that it is moving away from the Hobbyist market in which very few can even think of Forth and Fifth axis. Back in V19 and V20 it was more of a challenge to get tool paths for 3D mold work and you had to use your head on how to win at this Big Kids video game, but what the heck it almost made it fun. I think that Bobcad has made excellent progress for the $$$ in Solids and 3D tool path strategies.
    One thing that I think is very important is to use the Demos and only use the strategies that will be in the package that you will be purchasing.
    The Demos have all the bells and whistles so make sure that you do not get mislead by the sales staff which for me has always been a little aggressive as price is only good today. Don't worry if you even give them a clue that you might be interested but don't have time to talk right now (with a customer) that will give you time to check out the demo in more detail. I do think that they will be calling you back as most of know after all were the one that gave them our # in the first place. (dammit)
    What I would like to see more than a pros and con list is a SURVAY Count of Hobbyist or Shops that use Bobcad for programing in other than basic 2D in a heavy industrial setting.

    For my use ----- Hobbyist (finally)
    2D work ----- works fine
    3D work------ works but have to usually do work- around to get the results that I desire (but I like the challenge to see if I can win) but for price of the software, possible good tool path and a video game cool.

    V25 Pro
    Thanks RAF,

    And I am not saying it is not of value either for it's price. I am just wondering if it is right for my shop. And I know where your coming from about the challenge part I really use to enjoy the same type of challenges but I guess over the years it has come to more of trying to stay competitive and making money which takes that fun out of it and makes it more stressful. So now keeping the spindle turning is more important. Plus I have my 7 axis machines for that which I still hand code because I just don't like any software for that and that is were I get my challenge fix most of the time. I do like the software I think they have made HUG improvements since the last time I used it (V19) it is fully capable software there is NO doubt about that and I get that some don't want to see them get to advanced because that always brings more money but some of it could be an add on.

    But I learned my lesson here it is obvious I will not get what I am looking for because even though I am not trying to in my search for answers it just seems I am ruffling to many feathers. I just don't get why when you are trying to discuss something you are either praising it or bashing it. Is there nothing in the middle? This type of thing can't be a discussion? And someone did give advice that this should of been and the general discussion and maybe they are right can a Mod move it there for me?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pp-TG View Post
    You said yourself you have no cam experience out side of BobCad so I just don't think you could understand I guess..... Look at pocketing and its options it is pretty easy to see what you have and don't. If you have a part, lets say a 3" X 5" and it has two boss's in the center that are raised .100 above the rest of the part how do you do it? How many features do you need to accomplish this? How much extra geometry needs to be added to do it?

    I hope YOU are kidding ? ? ?
    You Sir,just confirmed everyone's suspicions.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmach View Post
    I hope YOU are kidding ? ? ?
    You Sir,just confirmed everyone's suspicions.
    And what suspicions is that?

  18. #18
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    Can you post a model for us? I've only been using BobCam V3 for 6 months and have a pretty good grasp on it now. Although I've owned a cnc for over 10 years I had no experience with CadCam previous to April. Sometimes I do feel the 2D paths are more difficult than the 3D paths. I make really large molds out of mdf for fiberglass work so almost everything is one off. One thing that I've found is the more presetting you do the easier time you have going thru the cam process. If you do one off parts like me just develop some good strategies. If you do alot of very similar parts you can save your toolpath features and load them onto other parts to speed up the cam process.

    Forrest

  19. #19
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    Maybe not quite confirmed yet.Post a model of said pocketing job.Then we will give confirmation.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest C View Post
    Can you post a model for us? I've only been using BobCam V3 for 6 months and have a pretty good grasp on it now. Although I've owned a cnc for over 10 years I had no experience with CadCam previous to April. Sometimes I do feel the 2D paths are more difficult than the 3D paths. I make really large molds out of mdf for fiberglass work so almost everything is one off. One thing that I've found is the more presetting you do the easier time you have going thru the cam process. If you do one off parts like me just develop some good strategies. If you do alot of very similar parts you can save your toolpath features and load them onto other parts to speed up the cam process.

    Forrest
    Yes I can sketch up a quick model similar to what I am talking about for the block with boss's but that is just one example. And it is no problem to get what I want it just takes a bit more work but when you charge by the minute every one counts. For instance when doing this block from a model you have to go around the outside in a separate feature because you can't do a pocket face option to get true clean up or draw geometry out side your model to fake it, both of which take added time. And yes I already have crap loads of features saved which at first I was unhappy there was no copy and paste option but this works and is good for sister parts.

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