[widgitmaster]

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 793

That's a CNC Zone rating based on the quantity of Posts you make!

Hang up your broom!

Eric

[Geof]

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 793

That's a CNC Zone rating based on the quantity of Posts you make!

Hang up your broom!

Eric

Yes I had figured that. What I want to know is how do I get to change it to something different like evilrobot has.

[andycapp]

Dream, first jr. high-High shcool shop.Realized what could be done on a bridgeport, and thought this is for me!!
Few jobs deburrin', couple wreckin' yard jobs to learn how to turn wrenches: and then I got a "grinding" job that turned into CNC work that truned into book reading that turned into shop lead in a couple of years. Then the dream; Dad's had something else gooing on and was talking getting a shop. I said you should buy a mill and and a lathe and put me to work. IT WORKED!!! Weve gotten a 2 axis CNC brigeport, a 17" cnc lathe and recently a 20x40 VMC.
All I've learned is there's a a whole hell of a lot to learn.

How old were you when you first realized you were the kind of person your mother warned you about?

[Cal Blacksmith]

Actually, I was trying to put the Machinist back in the picture, most people don't realize that it was the Machinist who opened the doors to CNC machining.

Today, a CNC machine's skills are only as good as the software you program!
Yesterday, a machine's skills were only as good as the opperator running it!

Unfortunately, as the CNC machines have evolved, the machinist's trade has devolved! There is such a void of training as the result of CNC automation, the old skills are no longer in demand!

Foruunately, I'm retired now and it longer effects my livelyhood. Today I just tinker, and have fun in my shop! But cutting metal was my first love, and it still is!

Eric

Please indulge me for a moment to let me make my point by way of a very short story.

King of all trades.

Long long ago, there was a large argument amongst the craftsmen as to who was the king of all trades. They took the argument to the king to settle things once and for all. The king thought it might be interesting to find out for himself who had the most important skills so he agreed to take the case.

He first called the stonemason and asked him why he was important. The mason replied that his trade was the one that built the castle and without them, the king would be homeless! True enough the king thought but asked one more question: Where do you get your tools? The mason replied, the blacksmith.

Next he called the carpenter and asked him why he was important. The carpenter replied that his trade made the framework for the houses of the town and that without them there would not be any furniture to sit on or even a table to have meals on. True enough the king answered and also asked him where he got his tools. The carpenter replied; the blacksmith of course.

The king called on all the different trades that had gathered and asked the same questions and though the reasons were all different as to why they were important, the thing they had in common was that they got their tools from the blacksmith.

The king then summoned the blacksmith who was hard at work at his smithy, ignoring the entire ruckus and when the blacksmith came before the king, he was asked only one question. Where do you get YOUR tools? The blacksmith replied I make them for myself as no one else can do it.

It was settled; the Blacksmith was the KING OF ALL TRADES!


This little story is more true than not. Everything we have today came from the fire and anvil of the blacksmith. He is the one who invented the first machines for working metal. He is the one that had a way to weld metal, long before anyone else had come up with another way to do it. We have many trades in metal working today and they can ALL be traced back to the blacksmith

So if you are running a CNC machine today, thank a blacksmith

I first started machining in Jr High school and have loved it ever since. I have also expanded into blacksmithing, can you tell??:P :P

[Geof]

......................
It was settled; the Blacksmith was the KING OF ALL TRADES!

Okay; I cry Uncle, I concede, I admit defeat. I might have bashed around hot metal at times but the closest I got to a true Blacksmith was cranking the blower on an open coke forge while he was shoeing horses on the farm I grew up on.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Okay; I cry Uncle, I concede, I admit defeat. I might have bashed around hot metal at times but the closest I got to a true Blacksmith was cranking the blower on an open coke forge while he was shoeing horses on the farm I grew up on.

You qualify for sure I am sure you are a much better machinest than I am.

Time changes all things and what is possible today in the average home shop blows away anything that was possible in the forge for the preciding several thousand years.

So as 200 years ago, it may have been the blacksmith, it is now the computer age and blacksmiths are mostly only making handrails, gates and trinkets now.

I intended my first post to be light hearted, if it came across any other way, I ask for your forgiveness. I am still trying to learn the culture of this board. Thanks

[unterhaus]

I used to think that if you sent Paul money, he'd change the title under your name to something less insulting. But apparently that isn't the case. I keep meaning to send him some money, this place is great.

[Geof]

I want to change it to Grand Panjandrum.

[dertsap]

Actually, I was trying to put the Machinist back in the picture, most people don't realize that it was the Machinist who opened the doors to CNC machining.

Today, a CNC machine's skills are only as good as the software you program!
Yesterday, a machine's skills were only as good as the opperator running it!

Unfortunately, as the CNC machines have evolved, the machinist's trade has devolved! There is such a void of training as the result of CNC automation, the old skills are no longer in demand!


Eric

sorry but i have to pick this apart !
Today, a CNC machine's skills are only as good as the software you program

WRONG , unless it is a monkey shop (Production)
the program is only the beginning ,being a seasoned machinist such as yourself , you must remember theory means JACK! we have to make that program work to the tooling the material and the fixturing that we use , and if it s a one or two off , fixturing is usually crude


Yesterday, a machine's skills were only as good as the opperator running it!

i agree , but so are todays , there are a lot of guys out there that know how to push the lil green button , and the big red one is for when something goes bad
but it takes true skill to make a lot of this work in a jobbing shop


Unfortunately, as the CNC machines have evolved, the machinist's trade has devolved! There is such a void of training as the result of CNC automation, the old skills are no longer in demand!

sorry but wrong again , while most of the young guys are learning cnc ,a lot of the older manual guys are gearing up for retirement , which means that there is in no doubt going to be a massive demand for manual machinists , NAME YOUR PRICE ! those machines aren t destined for the china metal scrap heap for a long time to come , someone needs to keep them running


manual guys i ve worked with always called me a premadonna and i always called them dinosaurs , but when we punch out at the end of the day we have always looked at each other with the same mutual respect to each others capabilities

[widgitmaster]

At least I know someone is reading my thoughts!
Like I have said before, I'm not happy unless I'm cutting metal!

I wasted the 1st 5yr of my retirement, even sold some of my tools, BIG mistake!
Then I bought some machines, now I'm back in action, having a blast!

Eric

[Bloy2004]

Hi Eric,
...just wanted to let you know...not only am I reading your thoughts, but all your threads.

You must be thrilled to be gearing up your shop again!

John (bloy)

[ajl6549]

High/Voc. school for mechanical drafting 1983, (not hands enough), then Voc.school for basic machine shop and on the job exp. from then 'til now

[drummond1]

I took the Ministry of Skills apprenticeship program and got my C/Q in the early 80's.I had an Uncle that was a tatoo covered biker freak in the 50's that looked like James Dean and used to ride me on his Triumph as a little sprat, sittin on the gas tank holding onto the mirrors. Uncle Joe was the coolest. The women thought so too. He always had Perty girls ridin around with him.. .He was a good machinist no doubt and got me into his machine shop as a grunt when I was 19. Mostly the foundation for my skill came from listening to senior machinists in numerous shops all along the way during my carreer,and doing the job as best I could, accompanied by a few slaps on the back of the head... not to mention a lot of cold coffee . Long since retired, these old mentors were highly skilled, low educated, wartime vets that came from overseas. England, Switzerland, Austria, Germany and Poland were the most common countries of origin. Education goes a long way but real skill goes farther. But hey, these guys had more muscle than brains and a stronger work ethic not to mention a backbone made of high tensile strength and often tempered alloy steel.. I miss them old farts. Gunther, Anthony, Jergen, Ian, Don, Sembi, Tommy, Dave,and God rest him Old Uncle Joe. ..its funny how even after all these years I can still remember their faces and images of their thick fingers spinning the micrometers. sheeesh! (chair) I notice that by my name it says chipsweeper.. Thanks for the accolade.. A good days work usually results in the final touchoff with the pushbroom. Something a lot of kids dont appreciate these days.. My Avatar is me putting on the finish ID on a press cylinder for Algoma Steel works.. We shrunk fit a bronze bushing sleeve into the cylinder and gave her a kiss for the finish ID. TIR through the entire bore 62 inches ID, 86 inches deep,was .0012. Straight bore ..no Line bore with a steady rest on an arbor. The machine is a Mitsubishi 7 axis horizontal. Fanuc18M, 600 inches on X ,300 on Y and 120 on Z and W ram and spindle. One of my favorite toys for sure. A 10 inch spindle with 240 horses givin me torque. Chips like a beast hungry for more. But then with the 4 to 1 speeder attachment 900RPM converts to a smooth 3600 and she can nibble gently. Still relatively slow but her gearbox is massive... This avatar was the post install test run pic with myself and the boys from Hiroshima Mitsubishi Heavy Machine works.All respect to Haruo Ito, Shozu Masutani and Fuji Nishikawa.This Machine tool cashed out at a cool 8.5 million U.S. The best time of my life was working with the Japanese tradesmen. I enjoy my Job... Its just me and the metal.. Mom asked me when I was small.. What do you want to be when you grow up ?. I said a Hermit.The machining has given me such an adrenaline rush I dont think I ever did... grow up that is...

[ironDigit]

i always said that as much as some people love breaking stuff
the world is a round place and we've got people that love to make stuff too make-up for it

kinda like the vandalist breaks something when he gets bored a machinist makes something when he's bored.

i got infected on a vacationtrip too morocco after meating a machinist i ended up hanging around his shop for a few months helpin/sweeping chips and making some waterblocks as soon as i got back and found that benchtop millingmachines do excist there was no way back for me

[truman]

http://technicalvideorental.com/inde...bf37734064bc13 I am still learning but I learn best when I can see what someone is doing I found this site and rented the fundamentalls video and learned alot, then I just ordered this set looks pretty good can't wait to watch it. They say its like taking a community college course.

Just like many of you guys I am now addicted and want to learn everything I can I hope I will become a good tool maker one day.

Rob

[drummond1]

I miss the old guys on the floor. Yeah.. sure ..now we have CNC.. CNC is just a tool in our toolbox. How you use the tool is where the skill comes in. One problem I face constantly with other programmers data is that they have become SmartCam lazy. Not only do they not have a clue about heat and deflection, but they dont have a clue about direction of cutting force!! .020 depth of cut for 300 cuts cutting tangent to the cutter? Gimme a break. What a waste of horsepower and time. Sometimes the pen ISNT mightier than the sword. Ask a true gladiator.These old farts can teach the young college educated kids a thing or two about loading up a Spindle loadmeter. enuff said.More power to ya Pop!

[Bud Guitrau]

I was fortunate enough to have taken 3 years of double-period, Machine Shop in high school where we had about two dozen lathes, mills and grinders and a brass and aluminum foundry. We were taught by a very tough, old-school graduate of the original Henry Ford trade school. Usually before we even graduated, most of us had night and summer jobs and were enrolled in the 4-year, State apprenticeship program, with most of us becoming Certified Journeymen before our 21st birthday.

Obviously, by revealing this type of information, I've also revealed myself as a graybeard, as these kinds of programs unfortunately seem to be few and far between these days. I was also lucky enough to have been employed by some caring mentors along the way. Like I said at the top, I was VERY fortunate.

I agree with Eric, Geof and Drummond1. CNC is good and was needed as the economy and world markets changed, but along with the increasing absense of skilled operators, machinists and toolmakers, the builders' solution -- via CNC -- was to make "smart machines" that were easy to run. This too was good, but along with the advent of "smart machines", we have seen fewer and fewer apprenticeship programs, vocational schools and internal cross-training. The solution actually made the problem worse.

The problem being; fewer and fewer people in the trade today are truly craftsmen -- being fully proficient in planning, tooling, set-up and execution. Instead tradesmen are becoming more and more "compartmentalized", running mills only or lathes only and reduced to being "operators" (through no fault of their own).

Now get in your shelter for all the stones and sticks that will be thrown.

Here they come. <running, ducking>

We are doing well and I don't want to sound negative, but we can do even better. I happen to believe that to fully exploit all the capabilities of a 5 or 6-axes lathe, mill or grinder via CAD/CAM, you'd be much better off being fully versed on the theory, nomenclature, mechanics and operation of a 3-axes manual machine.

Just my 3 cents worth. (2 cents, adjusted for inflation)

Bud

<looking for shelter>

[Dar]

Eric i couldn,t agree more. i also am retired but work part time for a robots co. that can,t find any good machinists under the age of 60 so they have several part timers that work their own hours and days they want. in my case i work at home in my garage and just make parts to prints. it nice
Dar

[alduns]

It's amazing how many "Self Taught" machinists there are !

Eric

If you take in consideration the lack of good educational systems on this planet, it would be easier to except that a select few, generally high school or college drop-outs, who have taken it on themselves to learn this trade and do something with it. We are true "craftsmen", not bookworms with a theory!! -al

[Dar]

i guess i should make another statement. when i finished my apprenticeship i quit GM and worked in jobshops for 9 yrs. that is where i learned tool making. what i learned on the app-ship was how to make the machines run.
Dar