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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking > MetalWork Discussion > How did you learn the Machinist trade?

View Poll Results: How did you learn the Machinist trade?

Voters
800. You may not vote on this poll
  • On the job training

    189 23.63%
  • From a family member

    45 5.63%
  • Apprenticeship program

    133 16.63%
  • Vocational Tech School

    167 20.88%
  • Self taught

    251 31.38%
  • Military training

    15 1.88%
Page 4 of 10 23456
Results 61 to 80 of 186
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    197
    Machinist,

    Humm, are there many left are have they al retierd. To me in this day and age most people that call themselfs a machinest are realy not they are a machine operator.
    I think that a true machinest can actualy see the part and how to make it in his head.

    one thing I look for in a new person (Machinist) is if one of the very first things they look at on a new part is "how do I hold it solid and square" not the question of feeds and speeds right of the bat. I notice more blank looks then answers out of the new school guys where as the ol' boy thats had to teach himself picks up the part gives it a look and you can see the wheels turn in his head.

    I truly think most machinest are going away and are now getting replaced by three or four difrent people (i.e. the set up guy, the programmer, the operator or button pushers in some shopes). This is sad as all the information and skill is being lost generation by generation and all we will have is a machinest had book for guidance.

    P.S. I went to the costly school of had nocks and late knights to devolope my skills
    and have done this for over 20 years and I can program both by hand and cadcam, set up and make parts both on CNC and manual machines. With all that said I still do not call myself a true machinest.

    John

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1257
    I have to say I disagree. I dont think the skills will ever be lost. There will always be people like me who literally dont know anything at all at present, but want to learn and teach themselves, with any help and advice they can get along the way from those who were in the same position 30 years ago. Sure, Im learning the cnc way and button pushing first, because thats what modern business needs, but I have every intention of learning the manual techniques whenever I have time. I believe that the extra knowledge of learning manual methods will make my products better in the long run, and even if it doesn't I have an interest which makes me want to learn anyway. There'll always be people like that, even if they're learning out of interest nowadays instead of necessity. My 2 cents.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    20
    Just read Alduns post and I agree wholeheartedly about the old mill hand's remarks about learning from your mistakes. I was fortunate to learn the trade when there were many skilled machinists from europe in job shops. They were good to me by showing me the way to do things. Still experience is a great teacher. I've always learned more from my mistakes than from my successes. Although I've spent 30+ years in shops. I'm now embarking on home CNC with a Techno cnc router. It represents a challenge because I'm getting into the nuts and bolts of making the machine run. Servo motors and controllers and Mach 3 are new territory. I think that this trend of people pursuing this trade in their spare time is a very hopeful sign for the trade. If you've ever been in a shop with a transfer line connecting machines into flexible machining cells, one realizes that the future of the trade is tending toward a "lights out shop" environment. One where people must be highly skilled to set up and program these machines. The entry level of the trade is just loading parts on fixtures and setting TLOs. There's a bleak picture! This forum is an opportunity for the old hands to share some of their experience to people that want to learn and benefit from hands on experience. I'm hopeful that manual machining will be in part preserved by CNCzone and similar forums.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12177
    I guess I must be getting old and crotchety because I find points for both disagreement and agreement in some of the most recent posts:

    alduns;
    "I'm not smarter then anyone else, I simply made more mistakes

    Les the Luthier;
    I've always learned more from my mistakes than from my successes.


    All I ever learnt from mistakes was what did not work. My successes taught me what did work and extrapolating from them led to more successes.

    Verfur;
    I think that a true machinest can actualy see the part and how to make it in his head.

    "how do I hold it solid and square


    So true; in another thread someone actually suggested machining all six sides of a rectangular block in a single fixturing on a five axis machine .... and got snippy when I pointed out this would require the use of magic.

    Verfur;
    I truly think most machinest are going away and are now getting replaced by three or four difrent people (i.e. the set up guy, the programmer, the operator or button pushers in some shopes). This is sad as all the information and skill is being lost generation by generation and all we will have is a machinest had book for guidance


    Also true and the programmer looks down on the others because they get their hands dirty while the programmer sits in an airconditioned office and works on a computer.

    diarmaid;
    I have to say I disagree. I dont think the skills will ever be lost.

    but I have every intention of learning the manual techniques whenever I have time


    Sadly I think you are too idealistic here; skill sets get lost all the time as society and the industries needed change. Try to find a plumber who can wipe a lead joint, try to find a machinist who knows how to make their own brazed carbide tools or harden their own steel bushings for a drill jig. The skills are not needed so they do not get passed on. Unfortunately what also does not get passed on is the incidental knowledge needed for the skill but also applicable in other areas; such as how to do low temperature brazing, how to harden and temper steel.


    But I will finish on a positive note from Les the Luthier and this I absolutely agree with.

    This forum is an opportunity for the old hands to share some of their experience to people that want to learn and benefit from hands on experience. I'm hopeful that manual machining will be in part preserved by CNCzone and similar forums.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4396

    With Experience Comes Wisdom

    ***(But I will finish on a positive note from Les the Luthier and this I absolutely agree with.)***

    This forum is an opportunity for the old hands to share some of their experience to people that want to learn and benefit from hands on experience. I'm hopeful that manual machining will be in part preserved by CNCzone and similar forums.[/QUOTE]

    Thank You Geof,

    The Title Master Machinist under your name isn't about how many posts you have made. It's a True Title for a Wise Man. If I could start all over again in this busness you would be the Teacher I would seek through hell or high water. Your Passion for the Trade Shows here in this last section of your post. A lot of the things you mention hold true.

    Just to add a little more. If We Don't Pass On Our Skills to the Ones That Want to Learn, We Will Be Responsible For It's Death. This Will Only Hurt Us.

    Thank You Geof for being here to help the ones that want to learn and the ones that want to keep our Trade Alive.

    There are a lot of names from far and near. We all come here to seek help as well as seek out those who need help.

    (seems the quoting didn't work)

    :cheers:
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    107
    I would like to re phrase the question from how did you learn to be a machinist
    to How am I learning to be a machinist.
    Seems like I learn something every time I go into a shop. Some things are
    learned by just looking, other things you have to ask but learning it is.
    There are some real good definitions of machinist that have been refered to
    and I don't know what the correct definition is but I sure like to watch some
    of the older people work and see how they sum up and solve different problems.
    Regards Walt...
    Now I question even the definition of "older".
    Seems like older changes the older I get.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12177
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    ...There are some real good definitions of machinist that have been refered to and I don't know what the correct definition is.....
    I have a friend who once worked as a machinist helper. His definition was that a machinist was someone who knew when a hammer was the appropriate tool for the job. He told me he was impressed because I also seemed to know what was the correct size hammer. I think he was being complimentary

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    440
    Going to Mechanical Engineering school on the G.I. Bill ( early '70s) , found a part time job at a small,family owned ,precision machine shop. The family was from Europe,very competint, precise ,prompt people.Even the wives worked in the shop cleaning and deburring. Very little talk, no arguing no B.S.As a newbie I was expected to learn the set ups the 1st time,measure correctly,make no mistakes.Scrap a piece,redo on your time.Due to a growing family I really needed the job and experiance, so just went with the flow and learned everything I could. Worked for them for 4 years,they actually came to my graduation.The experiance was invaluable,where ever I worked and even after opening my own business,when I designed parts I always kept in mind, how would I machine this part economically ?

    Adobe (old as dirt)

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    19

    apprentice

    I served part of an apprenticeship, mostly as a "slave". Learned the name of the tools, how to drill a hole, just basic stuff. got layed off, went to another shop,got fired for not knowing anything. Went to another shop learned alittle more. Finally got a job because I was vetran. Was there 28 yrs. Still learning.

    if it had not been for my dad I would have not have had the opprotunity.

    doug

  10. #70
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    249
    I am self-taught. I still have a VERY long ways to go, but so far nobody has helped me out- I do have one person in my family that has been in the machining industry for years, but I have learned the majority of my stuff myself. I am still in the process of learning, who isn't?

    I would really like to hook up with someone to teach me but classes seem expensive.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    8
    I cut my first chips in H.S. machine shop class. I soon after went to work as a screw machine operator, working up to cutter grinding and set up position.
    Than I moved on to a job shop where you had to learn all the machines , There were a lot of older masters there to learn from. Most are long retired but the experience they shared with me has been invaluable.

    It's hard to find that kind of hands on experience these days.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    162
    I learned in the Navy as a Marine Engineer. Although the "Machine" part was only in my very last course (took three of them over 8 years). Mostly I would have to use the title "hand fitter" because that is was we spent almost all our time doing. Making metal bits with a file, drill press, machinist square, vernier calipers, and a blueing plate!

    Starting off with +/-10 thou as an ordinary seaman (TQ3) making a two-screw clamp with acme threads (like one of those wooden jaw clamps but metal)

    Next as an Able Seaman (TQ4) was a sliding jaw vice with mostly +/- 5 thou and some parts at +/-2 thou. Took a couple months with classes a couple times a week.

    Then came the "bomb" which is a completely useless practice piece consisting if various tapers, various threads, knurls and a bunch of other things made on a lathe (first course on actual machines!)

    Last was a sterling heat engine. Most of it was hand-fitted (filing, filing, filing!) but the cylinders, pistons, and crankshaft were made on a lathe and some flat parts were face-milled on a milling machine (which I hand filed for greater accuracy after).

    The last two were as a Leading Seaman in the TQ5 course.

    It was a lot of fun and that hand fitting is coming in handy right now as I make my spindle mount out of aluminum with a drill press, machinist square, vernier calipers, and FILES. Lol

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6

    Never stop learning

    I admire your pesistence. Most good machinist would have went on to something easier if they had to finish with a file and some extra work.

    Just imagine how great you would be if you were surrounded by talented and experienced machinist - WILLING- to pass along their knowledge.

    I learned by making parts for my dads ashphalt plant, when it broke down, using an old southbend lathe and burning up a lot of bits. I'm the kind of person who can't stand to not completely understand what I am doing (picture me arguing with a stop-sign) so I later took a course at a local tech school to learn why I was burning up all my bits.
    (They handed me a file and told me to start with that. I get it...slow down!! LOL)

    9 years, a 10,000sf shop, and 60 hrs a week later and I still love to learn new ways to cut metal and solve my customers problems. And I love to see the look on someones face, begginer or expert, when that light comes on because they suddely understand whats happening on that machine and why and then look forward to the next chalenge.

    Never stop learning !!!!

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    24

    U.S. Navy

    I learned in the Navy, spent 4 years fixin ships equipment. I now have over 20 years at the job I love and still learning something new everyday. I currently work in a heavy equipment repair facility with some very large machinery and love the new challenges I keep getting.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    93
    I have to agree with most of what i.ve read. but for myself i,ve been machining since 1957,owned my own shop for a few years found that althou i make almost anything im a lousy business man. so i am trying to learn cnc,s.i am in the process of building a cnc router now if it works out i may convert my mill to cnc.biiiig learning process

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    10
    Hi All
    Iam the one that picks the chips out of the broom after the chip sweeper is done.
    only been playing with machine tools for 6 years (its a hobby not even connected with my job) I now have a 9" southbend, an atlas shaper, atlas horizantal mill, sherline cnc mill (I built all the electronics) and a home made cnc foam cutter( 2 axis). plus mig welder, torch, drill press, grinders, ect.
    Iam having to learn machines, electronics, programing,all at the same time:wee:
    It would have been cheeper to have one of you guys machine what I wanted rather than buy all this stuff.
    I have even forgot what I wanted to make all those years ago LOL
    I read the posts you guys post and pick thrue the BS and collect a lot of info from it
    KEEP IT UP!!!
    Thanks Mike

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2

    how I became a machinist

    In 1948 I was on the rifle team at my high school, and had a knife sharpening business. I graduated high school in 1949.
    a friend of mine told me he knew of a colt revolver that needed some repair, and that he thought that I had enough tools to fix it.
    well, I did fix it and he then brought me a shotgun that I repaired.
    he told me that he hated doing what we were doing, and I realized that more than anything I wanted to be a gunsmith, so I managed to find a master gunsmith to serve a formal apprenticeship with.
    he didnt want me using his lathe until I had some practice on some other machine first, so I signed up for a machine shop class at los angeles trade technical college (at the time it was still called "frank wiggins trade school", and became a college around the time I was ready to graduate).
    the master gunsmith that I served my apprentceship with worked mostly seasonally, and at that time I needed some income because my dad found out, the hard way, that he had heart problems.
    anyway after almost 2 full years of apprenticeship and also graduating trade
    school I took a job in a machine shop-I have been a job shop machinist for over 55 yrs.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    153

    Vo Tech school

    I have only been maching for two years but I learned at a well known votech here and oklahoma. The teacher required us to pass exams written and projects on manual machines before we could move onto cnc. He also encouraged to get NIMS certified. So not all schools are doing away with manual. Just thought I would make that note after reading this thread.

    I'm still a chip sweeper since this is my first post.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    669
    Started the Machine Tool Technology course at the local community college, but was working in the oilfield and had to quit because the job came first (bills to pay, mouths to feed), then I got a job at a local manufacturer of oil field tooling as a shop hand, became stock yard hand, then stock yard supervisor, then (after an incident that is neither here nor there) with the good word from my former employer, got a job as a CNC lathe operator at a local manufacturer (making high-performance steering racks - used for NASCAR, Grand-AM, LeMans, etc.), had a falling out with my supervisor, went back to community college for my Mach. Tool Tech. degree, got hired on as an apprentice at a local manufacturer (making aftermarket Jeep suspension parts) and have been there ever since. I can manual machine on a lathe and mill and do projects for the school and on the side stuff for people who can't get any other shop to even look at their jobs, I can program lathe and mill CNC, I can setup machines, operate them, maintain them, repair them and still LEARN on them/from them all the time! We run Daewoo Puma's at work and just got a new robotic welder which has been fun to try to program...latest project is designing/setting up fixtures for the welder...it's a small shop so we all wear many hats...sweep, clean, operate, cut stock, debur parts, ship, etc. but since I am just so eager (or foolish) I get to help and/or do almost everything else that the shop needs. Another four years and I'll have enough hours to call myself a journeyman...since I am working fulltime (@ 36 hrs. a week) and attending school fulltime (@ 14 credit hours or 28 hours hands-on a week) but I'm still trying to figure out what I'd like to do for a career...production machinist, tool & die work, machine repair/rebuilding, prototyping, medical machinist, what have you...as long as there are machines to hop on and get seat time, I will continue to do so...this is more than a job to me, it's more like an obsession, as I'm constantly buying books, reading industry magazines and inventing new projects to build at school...my teacher really likes that I am self-motivated and willing to try out new stuff...even if he doesn't always want to show me how to do it, he does allow me to try it for myself and gives me a few pointers before turning me loose...anyways, that's my so-called journey to being a machinist...

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2

    Machinist

    Always wanted to do machine work but could never find a place willing to let me learn and pay me what I needed to live on. Have been a diesel mechanic because I got a job through the HS work program and because i needed to keep working to live I became a mechanic by default. I never could get a decent machinist job that would train me. I started to go to Community College but the out of pocket expense, travel time, and the class times made it nearly impossible. How does a proficient dedicated person get started if all shops want is experienced. My pay now as a Fleet Tech. is as much or more than some machinist I have spoken with. What a shame, and I would think that running automated machines has taken the skill and challenge away for the most part. The respect for skilled craftsmen is just not there, but I think companies are going to hurt themselves very soon with this attitude. Now I will learn from you people and play with my lathe more. I just get confused with all the different tooling in the catalogs for what I need in a particular situation.
    Marc

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