[Spanners]

Anyone upgraded the spindle drive motor to something with more hp?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

To what end? Unless you want to be able to use 1" drill bits and other low-RPM tooling, the spindle has all the power the machine frame can reasonably handle.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Don Clement]

One thing a larger HP spindle motor may do is give the Tormach a wider range with more low rpm torque possibly not having to change the belt/pulley at lower RPMs.

Don

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Which is why I asked. For normal milling, the stock motor seems to have all the power the rest of the machine can reasonably handle. But, then, I've seen people put 2+HP motors on little X2 mills, in a mis-guided attempt to get them to do heavy milling. Of course, that just doesn't work. Bigger isn't always better....

Regards,
Ray L.

[Spanners]

Guys are running RF45 clones at 8000rpm with 2hp that make a complete mockery of the Tormachs cutting abilities
Speeds and feeds that will bog a 1100 right down, are done with ease.
There are a coupe of vids around for the same program run on both machines showing it,

Nones done either power or rpm upgrades...It's not because it doesn't work i believe, as there is no info out anywhere on even attempts - people simply haven't modified the 1100 like the more DIY and conversion mills

8k and 2-2.5hp would transform the machine IMO and a relatively easy upgrade end of the day

[Don Clement]

Might not need a speeder @8K rpm:-) BTW I just went from a 1.5HP single phase motor 12x36lathe to a 3HP 3-phase (I'm adding an Hitachi VFD today) 12x32 lathe. What a difference! IMO the 1100 frame would benefit from a VFD 2-3HP 3-phase motor upgrade. Reminds me of the highly regarded Monarch 10EE lathe with it's massive motor generator drive. A larger motor helps even on smaller cuts. IMO a larger motor is not just for taking massive cuts but would help smooth out smaller cuts and not have to change belts for more torque at lower speeds.

Don

PS. Some that oppose a larger motor on a Tormach probably don't even own a Tormach.

I'll bet they said that Shelby was crazy for putting a 427 V-8 into that light A.C. tubular frame meant for a small displacement 4-banger too.

[smallblock]

Don

PS.
I'll bet they said that Shelby was crazy for putting a 427 V-8 into that light A.C. tubular frame meant for a small displacement 4-banger too.

The original AC Ace used a Bristol 6 cylinder engine which was about the same weight as the 289 ford. There was not too much modification to the chassis. When they went to the 427 motor, there was a lot of chassis stiffening done.

[sansbury]

Nones done either power or rpm upgrades...It's not because it doesn't work i believe, as there is no info out anywhere on even attempts - people simply haven't modified the 1100 like the more DIY and conversion mills.

One thing that buying a Tormach has done is cure me of any interest in modding machines. After a few years of an X2 DIY conversion that was permanently 95% done and needed constant nursing to make parts with any measure of accuracy, it's been such an enormous delight to have a machine I can walk up to, turn on, and run without thinking a whole lot about it.

After three months of running a mix of customers' and my own parts on the 1100, I'm largely convinced that for my uses, a stronger spindle would have the same effect as raising the speed limit would on my morning commute. MRR is very very rarely a limiting factor for me. I spend far more time figuring out fixtures, CAM programming, setting up tools, etc., than I do wishing I could cut at 10-100% higher feed rates than I do now. I spent four hours today on two jobs that would have taken maybe five minutes less to run on a Mazak, forget a faster Tormach.

YMMV of course, but out of all the things I'd spend time/energy/money on, the spindle motor is near the bottom of the list.

[Spanners]

One thing that buying a Tormach has done is cure me of any interest in modding machines. After a few years of an X2 DIY conversion that was permanently 95% done and needed constant nursing to make parts with any measure of accuracy, it's been such an enormous delight to have a machine I can walk up to, turn on, and run without thinking a whole lot about it.

And hence where I think the problem lies
The machine works ok as a turnkey package... and thus no need to mess with it, but if it say came with 8k spindle and a 2.5hp motor as an option, you wouldn't choose that option?
A Tormach is a far cry from a X2

After three months of running a mix of customers' and my own parts on the 1100, I'm largely convinced that for my uses, a stronger spindle would have the same effect as raising the speed limit would on my morning commute. MRR is very very rarely a limiting factor for me. I spend far more time figuring out fixtures, CAM programming, setting up tools, etc., than I do wishing I could cut at 10-100% higher feed rates than I do now. I spent four hours today on two jobs that would have taken maybe five minutes less to run on a Mazak, forget a faster Tormach.

YMMV of course, but out of all the things I'd spend time/energy/money on, the spindle motor is near the bottom of the list.

That's 1 example where the job is the limiting factor not the machine, but as I said prior, examples of 45 clones 8k/2hp making the Tormach look like a Mini lined up against a Corvette in a drag race
There was a whole thread on projects and updates of a build with speeds and feeds etc listed with each job, and the Tormach wouldn't have come close in any of them as it simply doesn't have the speed or power
You could drive to work in 3rd gear at 30mph, but, but its a lot easier to drive at 40 in 5th and overtake when required

[philbur]

8k and 2-2.5hp would transform the machine IMO and a relatively easy upgrade end of the day

Go for it and post the results.

Phil

[Spanners]

Go for it and post the results.

Phil

Already looking I to it

[jid2]

The Marathon Micromax 2hp motor is a great one to look at. Myself and a few other RF45 as well as the Mikini guys have used it with great results. It has an excellent power curve.

Go for it!

[sansbury]

but if it say came with 8k spindle and a 2.5hp motor as an option, you wouldn't choose that option?

That would depend a lot on cost. I wouldn't mind more spindle speed for smaller cutters and since most of my work is aluminum. I've thought it'd be interesting to put the 770's 10k spindle on the 1100. My cuts rarely exceed 1HP anyway. Tormach's design white paper claims that the machine spindle is sized for the rigidity of the machine. It may well be that it can handle more HP in certain scenarios, like pushing a carbide facemill through steel, but I don't do a lot of work in steel or iron or that involves turning 50# of 6061 into one part and 48 pounds of chips. If I had $1000 or so to spend, I'd get the power drawbar, more tooling, or any number of other things before I spend it on the spindle.

Of course, I don't begrudge anybody who wants to mod their machines, it just doesn't interest me very much. The Tormach is a huge set of compromises one of which is limited HP but for me I've honestly been pretty near 100% delighted with the machine exactly as it is.

[rlockwood]

That would depend a lot on cost. I wouldn't mind more spindle speed for smaller cutters and since most of my work is aluminum. I've thought it'd be interesting to put the 770's 10k spindle on the 1100. My cuts rarely exceed 1HP anyway. Tormach's design white paper claims that the machine spindle is sized for the rigidity of the machine. It may well be that it can handle more HP in certain scenarios, like pushing a carbide facemill through steel, but I don't do a lot of work in steel or iron or that involves turning 50# of 6061 into one part and 48 pounds of chips. If I had $1000 or so to spend, I'd get the power drawbar, more tooling, or any number of other things before I spend it on the spindle.

Of course, I don't begrudge anybody who wants to mod their machines, it just doesn't interest me very much. The Tormach is a huge set of compromises one of which is limited HP but for me I've honestly been pretty near 100% delighted with the machine exactly as it is.

I think "sized for the rigidity of the machine" largely means.. so our customers don't kill themselves, or worse break their machines and complain..

Perhaps a larger spindle motor wouldn't allow a half inch cutter to remove more material, but assuming it allowed the spindle to rotate faster, it sure as **** would allow a 1/4" one to.

I'd still put a power drawbar and ATC way ahead of a faster spindle in the productivity/dollar department, but it wouldn't be far behind. An enclosure that offers a decent level of protection, too, would be a pre-requisite.

[Spinnetti]

I uses mostly 1/4" and below cutters, so faster spindle is appealing.... I have the PDB, but ATC is too expensive for me, leaving that dang "enclosure" and the way covers... I'd pay some money for improvements there, but don't want to waste time doing myself. I think Tormach should offer options for improvements to both those, but they didn't seem too interested.

[LRF]

I have the 1100 and would like to have a faster top RPM. As all my work is on aluminum small parts a lot of HP isn't needed. However higher RPM would allow for faster more efficient cutting with smaller cutters.
Wish Tormach would offer options for this. (15K would be great although the spindle may not be designed for that speed)

[twocik]

I'm thinking out loud here... I've been wanting to make pulley's to finetune the balance on the spindle and a few bells rang in my head the other day... What if we made a smaller motor pulley and a larger spindle pulley, wouldn't that increase the top end ? Any idea how to calculate the loss in Torque ?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I'm thinking out loud here... I've been wanting to make pulley's to finetune the balance on the spindle and a few bells rang in my head the other day... What if we made a smaller motor pulley and a larger spindle pulley, wouldn't that increase the top end ? Any idea how to calculate the loss in Torque ?

Torque will reduce by the exact same percentage that speed increases, and vice-versa. If you double the speed, you'll halve the torque.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mike sr1]

I'm thinking out loud here... I've been wanting to make pulley's to finetune the balance on the spindle and a few bells rang in my head the other day... What if we made a smaller motor pulley and a larger spindle pulley, wouldn't that increase the top end ? Any idea how to calculate the loss in Torque ?

Chris,
A larger motor pulley would be needed, and as the rpm goes up so do the vibration problems, I had thought about it but I dont want to go thru balancing the spindle and drive again..........

[Steve Seebold]

Anyone upgraded the spindle drive motor to something with more hp?

I have learned that with the low horsepower of the Tormach, I have needed to employ machining techniques than I would need if I had 30 horsepower. It takes a little imagination to be able to machine efficiently with the Tormach, but it can be done. I've learned it. Why can't you?