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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Cincinnati CNC > Cincinnati Arrow 1000 won't power on.
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    35

    Cincinnati Arrow 1000 won't power on.

    The electrician is now done with my new line for the mill.
    It's 220volt with 100amp "c" characteristic fuse, so according to the manual it should be more than enough.

    The machine boots without any errors, and passes diagnostics. Everything looks good, but as soon as i press power, the fuse kicks in and everything goes black...It's like it shorts out o something.
    After i boot up there are no errors, and the only fault i can find in logs are "apc data not retained".

    Any help appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2009
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    35
    The controller i A2100.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    460
    If the 100 Amp breaker on the disconnect trips when you try to power up the machine, it indicates a short on the wiring after the contactors pull in (M20 I think). Look at your prints, and check for shorts on the wiring. If you can't find any shorts, it is possibly internal to the power supply.

    If this is a new machine to you, and you have never actually seen it powered up there are other items to check first (for example, has someone set the trip point on the breaker too low?).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    35
    Yes, it happens right after it pulls the big contactor. I think its M20, yes. Will check for shorts on the wiring.
    I did some voltage measuring earlier.
    it was about 5% difference over all 3 legs on the input. And about 250 volts in the cabinet where it should be about 230 i believe. Could that also cause a problem?

    Thanks

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    35
    Maybe i should check the contactor itself also.
    I might be mistaken on this, but the first time i tried to fire up the machine i thought i heard a load "bang". Like something burned up in a "phooff".
    Hard to explain

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    205
    I had the same thing happen recently. I sent my power supply to Mike Kilroy and he got me going again.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    35
    Did you find out why the psu got damaged? Should some of the LED's on the psu show status before the M20 contactor kick in?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    205
    I pretty sure they said a capacitor blew.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    460
    It is possible the power supply just failed, but I worked on one machine recently that had an axis drive fail, and the drive took the power supply out too. Without the history of the machine, it's hard to tell what could have happened.

    Are you using the original transformer that shipped with the machine? Many of these being sold used are now being shipped without the original multi-tap transformer, but if yours came with it, did you have the taps set properly? Assuming you had an electrician wire this, he should have known how to check and set the transformer up, but I have seen many wired wrong by licensed electricians, and even one that wired the transformer wrong and the customer ended up with almost 1000V going into the power supply.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    35
    Is it possible to just unhook the DC power from PSU going to the drives? So the drives do not get power when contactor M20 go live, and plugging them in 1 by 1 afterwards?

    If all the drives DC plugs are unhooked from PSU, and my 100amp breaker still kicks inn then i'm even more sure its the PSU's fault i guess.

    Yes, its the same transformer. It was on 400volt using 400v input with the past owner. And now its on 220v using the 220v input.
    I did measure the voltage at the M20 contactor input, and i believe it was about 230-250 volt.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1765
    yes but dont stop there; check ur prints; if the 'psu' is a PSR4/5 unit then unhook the La,Lb,Lc 3ph 230v input power and try. if no short, then yes, hook bk up and begin disconnecting the "DC bus" two wires that come of it and go to the servo and spindle drive, putting bk one at a time until u find the culprit.....

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    35

    Thanks.

    I have done some further testing now. After the M20 Contactor.
    Disconnecting DC bus to drives -> short.
    Disconnecting DC bus to drives and spindle -> short.
    Disconnecting DC bus to spindle drive -> short.
    After disconnecting the DC bus completely -> short.
    With only 3ph in the psu and nothing out it still shorts.
    Disconnecting 3ph to psu from M20 contactor = no short.

    So the conclusion must be that the psu is faulty ?

    This is the Vickers AcramaticPS APS7500.
    Is it possible to try a different replacement like the kollmorgen PSR4/5 with enough juice?
    My version is the 75amp.

    Attachment 227610

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    1765
    Quote Originally Posted by mvas82 View Post
    Thanks.

    Vickers AcramaticPS APS7500. = kollmorgen PSR4/5-275


    we let vickers private label it.

    we can rpr urs or sell u a refurb one too.....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2580
    Make sure your transformer taps are setup correctly it sounds like they are not. Mine us UNDERNEATH the electronics enclosure...

    Peace

    Pete

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1
    Old User, sorry.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    35
    Ah, ok nice. Will do some more faultchecking first, but it is good to know, Mike.

    What do you mean by transformer taps incorrectly, Pete?
    That each phase match the PSU from the Transformer? So this could be an issue that it is wired wrong in the transformer?

    Thanks

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    we let vickers private label it.

    we can rpr urs or sell u a refurb one too.....
    Attachment 228072

    Here's a picture of my psu.


    So this is compatible or the same as the kollmorgen PSR4/5-275 ?
    Attachment 228074

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1765
    not sure why ur connectors look different; guess it has been yrs since i looked at the two side by side. yes, they r totally same function and ratings. just like the as10 is our se10 or se20.

  19. #19
    Hey dude.
    I saw your thread & think about it. But better way is to change this machine. Take another that means If you have well money then you can go for New Or If you can't afford new then go for Second hand machine.
    Many resellers & dealers are available on your search result.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    35

    Re: Cincinnati Arrow 1000 won't power on.

    I found a faulty thyristor diode inside the psu. It shorted from one AC phase to DC+ bridge. When i replaced it, the machine powers up.
    Thanks for the help everyone. Much appreciated.

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