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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Uncategorised MetalWorking Machines > HF spindle problem with danfoss inverter
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    450

    HF spindle problem with danfoss inverter

    Hi,

    I have a danfoss vlt 2807 inverter that im trying to use to drive a excellon 820 spindle. The problem is whenever i start the drive with the spindle attatched i get an error 16: short circuit. Without the motor attached the drive starts ok.

    This error should mean that one of the windings is shorted, but by measuring the winding resistance between each of the 3 terminals i get 10 ohms, so no short.

    Anyone have any ideas whats wrong? surely if there was a short i would pick it up with my multimeter.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    402
    I've checked a couple of things. Motor windings resistance checks up and about, my motor is 0.75kw, resistance ~7.5 Ohm, so maybe your motor is a little smaller. I tried blocking and after a couple of seconds i get "OL2", but then I don't have error16 in my book. It is possible that the motor just can't accelerate. Try adjusting the acceleration parameters to a very conservative value, or try the motor without it driving anything.

    Carel

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    450
    the motor is integrated into the spinde, but it spins freely, so theres next to no load on it. The spindle is quite old, so i had some trouble getting the specs, but i think its 200v 1hp 1000hz rated, although im only going up to 450hz, as my drive cannot do 1hp at 1khz (drive derated by 60%).

    i have had the ramp up time as high as 1500 sec, and still i get the error message pretty much instantly, although the spindle does move slightly before the error occurs. Also i have noticed that another code sometimes flashes up for an instant before error 16. i think its error 14: earth fault.

    what i dont understand is if these faults exist why i cant pick them up with my multimeter.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    402
    That leaves a couple of questions: is the spindle motor really 3-phase? The frequency is amazing. If it is, is there maybe a short from the windings to earth, causing error 14-->16? Does the inverter work with another motor?

    Carel

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    Quote Originally Posted by daedalus
    This error should mean that one of the windings is shorted, but by measuring the winding resistance between each of the 3 terminals i get 10 ohms, so no short.

    Anyone have any ideas whats wrong? surely if there was a short i would pick it up with my multimeter.
    It is almost impossible to detect a short circuit with an ohm meter on a three phase motor, this is due to the inherent low DC resistance of the winding which if it is 10 ohms, a shorted turn is undetectable with this method.
    You mention any of the three terminals, so I suspect you have a three phase motor fed from a single phase inverter?
    If you could find a source of 200v~240v 3ph 50hz, you could run it direct and check the windings with a clamp-on ampmeter which is the best way to test for shorted winding.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    450
    fkaCarel: im sure that the motor is 3 phase, as ive found other hobbyists using the same spindle. I cant detect an earth short with a multimeter.

    Altheman: your right, the inverters single phase input. Unfortunately i dont have access to 3 phase power, or another 3 phase motor to test the drive with. That said i doubt its a drive fault, as with no motor connected it starts ok.

    I may be able to get a new stator for this spindle, but i will have to totally disassemble the bearing assembly to replace it, which is a job i was hoping to avoid. I have another spindle i may try with this, which is the excellon 1010, but i need to find a connector for it. Is there any way to detect a winding short on a motor like this?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    450
    ok, looks like a new stator will set me back $280, and ive just done another test which may shed some light on the problem. I have a second spindle, an excellon 1010 drill, and im getting exactly the same behaviour with that, spindle spins about 1/6 a turn then error 16.

    Now both spindles are salvage, so may have faults, but were bought from different retailers on ebay. If i have to replace the stators i will do, but obviously for the price i just want to make sure it couldnt be anything else.

    things i havent done:
    set the correct reactance for the coils (using drive default)
    set the correct U/f ratio (dont know it)

    there is also some cryptic note in the vfd manual about motors without phase insulation paper requiring an external LC circuit.

    could any of these things cause the response im getting?

  8. #8
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    Jul 2005
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    450
    Ok, almost burnt a tonne of cash on replacement stators, then i had a thought...

    what if the stator voltage is too high, and my specs for the spindle are wrong...

    well running at 0.55kw 100v the spindle works fine
    at 0.75kw 200v it has an insulation error

    does anyone here know what the actual voltage rating is for an excellon 820 or excellon 1010 spindle??

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    39
    Hi daedalus,
    i´m late, but can you tell me the configuration of your danfoss. The spindel is still working?
    I´ve got that spindle to.

    regards Fritz

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    450
    hi, the spindle is boxed somewhere at home, will try and dig it out next week. If you haven't bought a danfoss yet may i suggest you download and read the manual, as at the frequency these spindles run at you have to heavily de-rate the drive, and as such need to buy quite a bigger drive then you might expect (the mistake i made).

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    39
    Hi, thanks for your reply,

    you are not working with any excellon spindle any more? If you have any idea wich kind of frequency converter will fit to my excellon quiet drill 820, please lat me know this.
    regards fritz

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    39
    Quote Originally Posted by daedalus View Post

    does anyone here know what the actual voltage rating is for an excellon 820 or excellon 1010 spindle??
    If still necessary:
    (i found in a Excellon handbook from 1976):
    Excellon Quiet drill 820 (now Jevco QD820)
    1000Hz 60.000 RPM 270VDC
    500Hz 30.000 RPM 140VDC

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1
    Hi, sorry to jump in so late, I just found this site.

    Are you still having problems with the 820 and 1010 spindles? My company has been rebuilding these spindles for over 15 years. We use a Sieb and Meyer frequency converter for testing. If you need additional info about these motors or need to have them rebuilt just let me know. Thanks and good luck.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    39
    Hi,

    thanks for your answer, but i´ve found a cheap and good inverter for this. Comander SK (1,5KW) It´s from Control Techniques. He makes up to 1500Hz.
    It works fine with 230V

    Best regards Fritz

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2
    Can anybody can give me a parameters to set up in frequency converter for Excellon 1010 (Excellon D80A) : voltage, current, cos fi ??
    Where can I bay, and how much cost a new bearing’s ?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    0
    hi,i also encounter error-16 of danfoss frequency converter although it says on the manual that the motor winding has a problem but i conclude that the frequency converter was having a problem.actually we used it on our smoke house machine.its just happen that we have two frequency converters for two motors in one machine.normally we operate the machine with both converters are running but since we encounter error-16 in one converter,i try to removed the defective one.our two motor was working on the other converter.now we are looking for a frequency converter as a replacement or is it possible to repair a frequency converter?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    80
    The Danfoss VLT 2800 works very well to spin the excellon QD820 and QD 1010 spindles. You just need to get the parameters and wiring right,


    To begin with make sure that the switching frequency is set to above 10000Hz

    (I set it to 14000 Hz). Then you need to get the V/F ratio and settings right. I usually set the max voltage to about 200V. Give it an acceleration time of 4-5 seconds and same for deceleration.

    That set, you will have to set the drive operating range. Set it to the max at 1000Hz output at 200V.

    Also, make sure that you haven't connected the VFD output to the spindle ground pin.


    This should get you started.


    Best of Luck



    Dev

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6
    does anyone know how I setup a Danfoss Fc 301.
    to use with my X2 brushless dc motor.
    motor specs are
    500watts
    2.8amps
    230Volts
    insulation class B
    IP44 enclosure.
    thanks in advance.

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