[jm82792]

It's been two years, I've payed for my equipment a few folds over, and when I make a sale I actually make good money.
Part of my sucess is I live here and people want made in Hawaii, so that's 75% of it right there...
Right now it's just a single product that I've been selling low (the price before the gallery doubles it) since I don't do galleries yet and a bit of piddly side stuff that's a learning experience. I plan to get into two piece boxes(the lid is double sided machined and so forth), light plate covers (supposedly a shop will buy them off me regularly), and a few other random things. I've also been attempting to sell myself to a sign company that has a 4'x8' RouterMate that needs some CAD/CAM help at times. I am working on getting a second small CNC machine so that I can start asking local wood workers if they need some work to be sourced out. It appears since I am in Hawaii the whole island/rock in the middle of the ocean thing is actually good at times due to tourism and so forth.

I've been attempting to grow connections locally, and from it I've found sources for affordable hardwoods from here in Hawaii.
I want to make as much money as I can from this "hobby" (that now has a DBA and tax license finally) as possible. I am trying to see if there are any ways I can process some local wood then sell it. For instance I was thinking of perhaps getting into cutting out and stabilizing knife blanks from Koa, spalted mango, and all sorts of other locally grown woods. I've been really looking to grow since I'm netting only about $400 to 1K a month from this, I'm 21, finishing my business degree, and really want a business that I am interested in.

So my question is are there any niche hobbies, application, or so forth that could benefit from somebody who will source high quality wood from here, and process it the way they want it? I really put an emphasis into attention to detail, finish quality, and wood selection so maybe there is some final or semi final product I can get into that would sell out of state...

[keebler303]

It would seem to me the tourist industry would be big.
As far as specialty woods you have ball point pens, veneer inlay, musical instrument parts, knives, pistol grips, etc.
Many of those markets are quite saturated but that doesn't mean you couldn't penetrate them.

[jm82792]

Tourism is big and people come here to spend money
There are a good amount of guys making things (a few CNC machines for cabinets from what I hear and that's basically it), however, perhaps with a combination of good price, superior quality, and more intricate work I could get into it. I've just recently been speaking with some local wood workers and it does seem they agonize with some things done by hand like switch plates, ornaments, and other random things. Although they aren't specialized, seem rather low profit margin, and probably aren't the best initial choice. I was thinking that initially I could find a few local places around here that could use my services in a few things you mentioned.
Currently I have a single place I've been practicing with where I fill in an order of a few hundred bucks worth of V Carved goods 6 weeks.
Some of them are double sided and have pockets that need to be lined up nicely, and some are fridge magnets where I friction set magnets into their backs.
I can also put things on consignment there(as if they don't order it it's on consignment!), although, it seemingly takes a long time to take any idea to an actual product.
I've strolled into some galleries and have seen stuff I can make for 25% of what they charge. Basically boxes, little ring boxes, pens, and a few other random things I can't recall.

One thing is I know ballpoint pens fetch $50+ retail and I've always wanted to buy a $300-400 lathe to try a few of them.
(not to mention the whole 4th axis stuff, intricate carvings, and making them out of ebony, ipe, and so forth)
Perhaps I could even toss a lathe under a small CNC machine and just have everything shaped that way? Then I merely have to just get blanks cut up, holes drilled out perfectly center, then trial and error for them.. I do lack some basic woodworking knowledge since it's just been high end wood flooring work (which is totally dead right now, as my father and I are out until next year), and some general construction.

[awerby]

If you're shooting for the tourist market, think in terms of small items that aren't a hassle to fit in the suitcase. Fancy pens made from local woods sounds like a good one, but look around to see if the market's already saturated, and if there's anybody willing to buy your products outright. It's better to make the sale at 25% of retail than to put them on consignment somewhere and have to wait for them to sell, and for the gallery to pay you instead of going out of business.

If you're in contact with local woodworkers, see if there are any of those items -switchplates, ornaments, knobs, whatever - they'd be willing to order from you on a trial basis.

A fourth axis is a lot like a lathe mounted on a CNC machine, but it doesn't substitute for one. If you want to make fancy pens, you need a lathe (perhaps one of the little Sherline or Taig lathes I sell) but the mill is optional. However, I could see you doing more intricate carvings on a 4-axis mill, and setting yourself apart from the competition.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[jm82792]

Thanks Andrew for your input.
I'm about to call a few woodworkers I know of, along with making some switch plates covers for a place that buys them out right.. Otherwise, I'll be checking to see what voids I could fill, and what will work

Here is a monologue of what I've been up to...

I managed to sell myself (I heard you need help and I can do it sort of thing) to a sign company's co owner.
They have a 4'x8' routermate and do not know how to do 3d work.
What that means for me is I've been told a few times I can use the CNC machine and Hurricane laser machine.
I barely got anywhere for the first hour and a half for a few reasons but next time I'm planning on helping him with Rhino and Bobcad once I learn it.
That opens the door up for a few grand in work from two potential customers that want larger pieces.
So this could get me from A to B (CNC router parts machine?) for a few months if I'm lucky.

Also, I was looking at a servo attached to a 1:100 harmonic drive.
I lost it since I wasn't paying attention, it sold for a quick $60, and I feel rather stupid.
Furthermore, I saw a youtube video of a guy using one it as a rotary axis for aluminum milling.
Intelligent Actuator RS DC 12RS 20 360 100 Rotary Axis CNC Table | eBay
I figured worst case I toss the servo, best case it works, and overall I messed up.
I'm going to ask a mechanical engineer I know if they toss stuff or sell stuff cheap from the observatories on Maun Kea and perhaps I could score.
Otherwise I'm going to keep it simple for now and wait for a bit until I get a 4th axis or lathe to learn with.

Currently, I've taken a brief detour into making Big Island pendants, where the Big island of Hawaii is a pendent that's machined with a .03125" ballnose bit out of ebony or koa. I'm looking at ordering some basics for the hardware to make finished "jewelry" pieces that should be popular. I need to or at least want to ensure the koa is stabilized so it lasts and is denser/more expensive feeling. I'm ordering the ebony cutoffs and if it looks good I'll follow through with the stuff for stabilization.

Past this I wish to refocus on what I originally mentioned. I'll be ordering a knife blank, hardware, and G10 scale then be hopefully scanning it, and milling it out of Koa to get a grasp of how this stuff works. (The sign shop said they have an unused $5,000 touch probe? Don't ask me why)
Then I'll be fishing on some forums for interest on stabilized unmilled blanks, and see what happens.
If that falls through I'll see what happens locally... If that doesn't work there are other things.

[mcphill]

You can use your mill as a lathe too. Look up vertical lathe. Mount the tools to the table, and spin the part in the spindle. Should be a perfect setup for something the size of pen bodies.

[keebler303]

You can use your mill as a lathe too. Look up vertical lathe. Mount the tools to the table, and spin the part in the spindle. Should be a perfect setup for something the size of pen bodies.

IMHO, pen bodies is something you'd turn on as mandrel between centers, therefore not being doable on a mill. You could still do it on a mill, just without any support for a relatively long, hollow piece of wood.

[jm82792]

I doubt my puny dewalt 611 can't probably do that much
I've got the money for a few things but I hold tight to it since my income isn't stable and I need to be sure before I use it. I know risk has to be taken but I'm cautious with what I do...

Here is some koa I got for not much. It was from underneath a school woodshop that closed 2 decades ago, and was dust encrusted. I'm going back for a few more loads once I give the teacher a few things I'd like for him to have...

[awerby]

Nice score, JM. If it's been sitting that long, you shouldn't have to worry about stability, and koa is a fairly stable wood anyway. If you do find some highly figured pieces, save them for jewelry or other high-value projects; it can be quite expensive stuff. Carve and sand it out first, and apply finish later.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[jm82792]

I can't complain about it that's for certain!
I'll be back to get the rest of the lot in a few weeks.
It's been sitting but might have excessive moisture, I'll stick it with my father's meter, and hope it's not past 12% since that's wet.
For stabilization in koa jewelry and stuff I was thinking it would make the wood "feel" more expensive since it would be rather dense.
Furthermore, it could be immersed in water without going totally sideways in theory...

Out of all of what I got maybe a few board feet is worth making jewelry out of but the rest has stripes or is otherwise not so curly.
One place I know of will resaw (sell+cut) CURLY koa to whatever I want for $40 a BF with a 5 BF minimum, which is instrument grade.
However, I've held off since I have cheaper place that sells slabs ranging from $20 to $5K a slab, although it's hard for me to get there, and he is always busy it seems. Right now I have a dozen or two BF of stock along with a bunch of other bits of wood so I'm good for the time being.

[awerby]

Are you doing the stabilization yourself? I've experimented with sending some things out to be stabilized, and they came back impregnated with polyester resin. They were really stinky, and had a bunch of stains introduced from other stuff the guy apparently was stabilizing and dying. They didn't feel more expensive; they felt like plastic and smelt like toxic waste. But maybe you've got a better process...

Andrew Werby
Juxtamorph.com

[jm82792]

I have yet to stabilize anything yet but I wish to try with a vacuum chamber and so forth.
For the actual resin I'd be using a two part system called "Cactus Juce" by Turntex.
From what I read you put your wood in the chamber along with the catalyzed resin (once catalyzed it has a pot life of 6 months)
then wait 6 hours or until it stops bubbling, then you take them out, and bake them to set off the resin.
So from my interpretation the stuff isn't particularly tenacious or volatile,
however your experience with stabilization may be what my experience may be.

I called Curtis from Turntex and he said it won't smell nor look like plastic.
So I spent $20 on a pint of the stuff. Now to go to the dump and get a free water cooler for the compressor, then a vacuum chamber from a mason jar.
Once I'm dangerous and if the results are good then I'll proceed.

[jm82792]

Well this stuff catches me off guard at times for better and worse.
Today I sold $700 of wood work which is rather unusual occurrence along with several inquires on the same day.
My little machine works nicely but I'm still really wanting a second identical one to have around since it's not a taig,
sherline, but a Microcarve machine so I want a second working machine that could donate parts that aren't off the shelf if need be.
So I'm thinking of a second machine or just piece out some spare parts for the time being. (a spare stepper driver, some hardware, set screws, and so forth)
Then my control computer is old and I wish to replace it. I'm thinking the TinyG might work but I need to check into it.
Anyways there is always that question of "I made money now how much do I put back into it?" along with "I need to pay my bills and as it is I don't waste a cent."

[keebler303]

If you NEED the money you make with your machines, you MUST spend some money to keep them running. If you just make extra money with them, then you can tolerate them being down for some time if required.

Here we have budgeted how much it costs per week/month/year (as applicable) to run a certain machine. Any job using that machine pays into an account for that machine at a rate based on how many days or hours per week/month/year it is used. If it is used 100 times a year, each use should pay for 1/100 of the cost to keep the machine running for a year. Over time, this account builds up a balance which is used for maintenance, repair parts, supplies and eventually machine replacement.

If you have these rates set correctly, you should have enough money in that account to keep that machine running and to buy a replacement machine when that one is worn out.

[awerby]

A water cooler for a compressor? A mason jar for a vacuum chamber? Who told you that was going to work - some YouTube video? Mason jars are great for jam, but they were never intended to serve as vacuum bell jars. Implosions can be just as bad as explosions, especially when they send shards of glass flying in every direction. It sounds like you're dangerous, all right...

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[keebler303]

A water cooler for a compressor? A mason jar for a vacuum chamber? Who told you that was going to work - some YouTube video? Mason jars are great for jam, but they were never intended to serve as vacuum bell jars. Implosions can be just as bad as explosions, especially when they send shards of glass flying in every direction. It sounds like you're dangerous, all right...

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

Refrigerant compressors will work quite well as either a vacuum pump or air compressor. The trick is keeping them cool and lubricated. I've got an A/C compressor on my Jeep that is converted to an air compressor for onboard air. It works just fine. I've never used one as a vacuum pump but it will work to some degree. Most compressors for refrigerators and the like are submerged in the refrigerant to cool the motor. If you run it dry, it will likely overheat rather quickly.

I agree the mason jar is a bad idea. A piece of PVC pipe would be worlds better for a chamber, other than the fact that you can't see through it.

[jm82792]

I am not needing the money to live with per say (affordable rent at home and so forth), I just try to save as much as I can, and keep my assets (not much but something) fluid unless I need to lock some up into equipment. This is primarily because my father's work is hit or miss, I'm trying to get my degree finished on the side, and I don't want to buy equipment unless I need to.
When I do sell something I'm netting a decent amount in a short period of effort so the $2k machine is definitely expendable although I'm into taking care of stuff until it's not worth fixing.
I'm figuring a graciously high $1-$2 an hour for depreciation would not stifle my efforts or profit.



For the whole compressor and jar thing this is what I was thinking.
Firstly, I was told by Curtis from Turntex a mason jar will work and won't implode although it's tad contrary to what I've read about what old CRT can do (PVC pipe was what I was thinking too). The refrigerant compressors will work as a vacuum pump(it seems those black ones from residential fridges are submerged in oil or otherwise don't get hot from my unrelated experiments) and supposedly at my altitude I'd get a 98% vacuum according to Curtis. The only reason I'd go with this (rather rigged option) is to just see what happens, since for under $100 I can see if this stuff works, then go spend a few hundred on what's actually required. For the actual pendants if they sell decently I could make some good money but we shall see if I get them done before December, when they could just sell off the shelves at a local store I consign with.

[keebler303]

I don't really know about the compressors but I was under the impression that the oil they are submerged in is the oil that is in with the refrigerant so I figured it would be removed with the refrigerant leaving you with a dry pump. Maybe the oil stays put? I don't know.

[jm82792]

I think it does since I tipped one and it spilled some translucent oil...

[jm82792]

I have a good deal of play+backlash on my Y axis along with a bit of backlash on my x that wasn't there 8 months ago.
I don't know why since they are supposed to last a long time and I have no clue why the Y has play in it.
Months ago I nicked the Y axis (not my x which has less but still some) but I polished it up, however, I did run it for a bit since I didn't know it was nicked.
I'm getting maybe 1/50" or so of play which isn't good although it could be maybe 1/100".
(needs to buy calipers and maybe dial indicator?)
I shot John/Microcarve an email about buying some more delrin nuts and hopefully i can get a few of them.
I'll also be checking out everything, and use some superglue to stiffen up any worn MDF.
I've made maybe 20 sets of islands, which equates to maybe 8,000 inches of travel per set.
Plus all the random stuff I've done that's maybe equated to half a million inches of travel??

For products, I've yet to get the cactus juice and it won't be here for a few more days so it's on the back burner.
I have had a few 1/4" carbide endmills come in from drillman/carbide plus on ebay and a tapered 1/8" bit from precise bits.
I'm wishing I could have bought more but the bits seem to cut nicely from drillman and the last Precise Bits tapered bit lasted a good 35 hours of cutting or so. For the time being I've been fulfilling holiday orders, which in turn might rack a good deal of money. I've also received a wholesale inquiry, only a few hundred dollars or so, but it seems people want it cheap or will otherwise scalp you which isn't a surprise. I'm better of with a small store owner I know that's down the street, Etsy, and my website that will have eCommerce when I find it necessary.

I've been attempting (I succeed but here is a test one I did) to get something out to market for the holiday season since most of my stuff is expensive and rather a hard sell minus some bits and bobs I've been offing.. So I'm working on a box of the Big island and maybe Maui if the gallery doesn't try to rip me off price wise My only competitor charges $600 retail or probably $300 for a 12" one, I can do it for nearly half although I'm into smaller stuff that's more detailed


Uploaded with ImageShack.us