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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    29

    Sieg X2 and X3

    Been looking around I'm almost decided to buy a X2 or X3 mill and convert it to CNC with a kit. (Buying a complete Maxnc 10 is still in the back of my head though)

    The machines is about twice the price in Europe, and even from those location I'¨d be paying more in shipping than I would from US. But US has the 110V/60Hz wiring. Could the mill be easily rewired to 220V/50Hz, or would this be a new motor and controllers? I could save a bunch by buying it in US and then rewire it myself if that's possible.

    The work I'll be doing is very basic stuff. Route PCBs is a must, make front panels is also very important and when I finally get it I'm sure I'll find much more work to do on it. I guess both the X2 and X3 could do this?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    78
    If you are looking for PCB, and aluminum milling, and need some more axis-travel, get a X1 from arceurotrade. They are from the UK.

    The SuperX1L has 145mm y-axis travel, and 330mm X-axis travel at only $280 UK dollars. THe X2 only has 100mm y-axis travel, and 220mm x-axis travel and costs $460 UK dollars. Get the X1, it is way cheaper, and has a much larger travel.

    SuperX1L - $280 euro
    CNC Fusion 3-axis CNC kit - $197 euro
    Hobbycnc 3-axis kit - $63 euro
    3- 200oz Steppers - $94 euro.

    Total for everything: $634.

    An X3 basic, with no kits, just the machine costs $855 euro. For that price you could get a X1 fully cnced with tooling for the price of the X3 machine alone.

    The only differences between all 3 machines will be that the X2, X3 will be stiffer, and weigh more, and will be better for Steel. For aluminum the X1 is great. I reccomend it.

    Here are the links to the different sites:
    http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/
    http://www.cncfusion.com/
    http://www.hobbycnc.com/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    29
    Hi,
    added size would be great, but would I have to drop all steel milling?

    Forgot to mention that I'm also into RC models, and I'll probably have to make stuff for that as well with the mill. Not big stuff, but I'd want to do it in steel (SS). Would all SS milling be impossible on the X1? We're thinking small pieces here...

    The price for the Super X1L in UK is the same as for the X2 in US... :P I see your point in size though...

    Still I'm curious on the wiring on the machines. It would be very nice if they could be rewired to 220V...

    Edit:
    Actually, isn't this a X2 mill as well?
    Chester Conquest These mills keep poping up everywhere...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1365
    Well, overall the X3 will be the best option, most rigid, largest capacity and largest price


    Jon

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    78
    X3 would be best for steel. You can do steel on an X1, and X2, but you would have to take light cuts. Many passes to get through 1/8, or 1/4" stock. I use my X1 to make R/C parts, but out of aluminum, and it can make the parts in 1/4" material in 3 passes. The X3 would be your best machine, but it would cost probably > 2000 US dollars to get it CNCed, whereas a X1 cnced would be about $800. If you have the budget, get a X3, if not, get a X1.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    866
    The x1 would do fine for PCB's. Alumibum it is okay, and steel will work, but you need to take it easy.
    I own an x1 with the extended base and table, it is decent. Is it for heavy milling? Not in the least. But it works with aluminum, just take a moderate cut. I can take off 1/8" little problem with a 2 flute hSS endmill. I can go deeper, I've made a 1/4" deep slot cut before, but I dont bother. Make sure you buy the base, it is nearly 150% more dovetail contact area. THe superX1 already comes with this.
    For steel, I would say .050" per pass. Possibly .030 or .040 with stainless. Try it, and make sure that the gibs are snug and your spindle bearings are well preloaded. Remember, with CNC you don't need to turn the handles so you can take a lighter cut with more passes.
    The x2 looks poorly designed in my opinion. The X1 is easy to convert to CNC, and plenty of good modications to be done.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    78
    I have to agree with phantomcow, as that is a perfect description of what it can do. The X2, you will just be dissapointed with its limited travel. It is better for steel than a X1, but for the price, not worth it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1365
    from my experience with the x2, I would for sure say I'd be dissappointed with the x1. unless I really had nothing else I could afford I would go with something bigger. A rule of thumb that people often use is buy the biggest peice of equiptment that you can.(within reason). but if your just drilling pcb of whatever, do what you want. Even if you want to just mill aluminum, these small mills will do it... but a bigger one will do it better.


    Jon

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    866
    A weak point in the x1 is the column, which is too small. It can and will flex under load. The gibs to the head need to be very snug for good performance also. You have to adjust your milling to hold tolerances though.
    If you measure you have .040 more to go until you are at where you need to be, don't take it off in one pass. Take off 30 or 35, the column may flex. Then take off the small amount you have less at a final pass, there will be no flex in teh column taking off this little material. ANd probably no chatter either, so you get a good finish.

    I believe hte footprint of the extended base (standard on the Super X1) is larger than the X2. Also, the head is controlled by a real leadscrew, not rack and pinion. To convert to CNC will not require much modifcation like adding a leadscrew. Most people use the leadscrews which are already htere for their conversions with good results. There have been people who have replaced the plastic geared system with a belt driven setup. I think there is even a guy on the yahoo group who will sell this kit. I used a Taig Pulley setup and got up to 8000RPM. I know a person who got up to 10,000RPM. This is much more suitable for routing PCB's I would think.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    29
    Great feedback guys. Guess I want a Super X1L...

    Thanks.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    866
    Good choice.
    As for your shipping and wiring...

    Looks like ArcEurotrade will sell the Superx1 with the long table (the only way to buy it now anyways) for 280pounds. That equates to $518.27 USD. Harbor Freight charges 259 when on sale (which I think it is now). I am not sure if they ship international, they probably do. Regarldess, you would have to pay shipping and deal with customs. I know I have family in france, to ship a 50 pound item cost a lot of money. TO ship a 103lb package....A lot more. Probably could be done by boat, still you would have to pay customs of some type or another.

    The other big thing is that the version HF sells is not the Super x3. You would have to buy the Extended base- 80 dollarsUSD, and the extended table - 70USD
    259+70+80=409. Plus shipping, at least 100 dollars I would think. And then rewiring for 220V. with ArcEuroTrade you would get it working out of the box, and shipping will be less. And join the yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hf47158toCNC/
    A lot of information about this mill. Good pictures of CNC conversions, major modifications.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    78
    Oh my bad..I thought I made it sound like it was cheap. I didnt realize that was in Pounds, not euros. Eeeek, that is expensive.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    866
    Home machining is definitely not the cheapest hobby. You have to factor in the cost of the machine, and then tools. I've found tooling for a mill to be cheaper than a lathe. Check ebay, I got a nice screwless vise delivered for 43 dollars. At the bare minimum you will need a vise, endmills, drill bits, endmill holder/collet, your measuring and setup tools like a dial indicator and caliper. A clamping kit is also necessary for some vises. Like I said, check ebay, there are great deals out there if you know where to look.

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