[AiR_GuNNeR]

I would get some blue dye and try that first just to see how flat they really are. I know they done look nice, but it would be good to know. I would not regrind or machine them though. I would spend a little time on it by hand. There is also some sort of material used for way repair that you might consider if there is room. I do not recall the name of the stuff. Maybe someone here can shed some light there.

Is there room under the table to mount the oil line over the nut? I think the oil on the screw there is probably sufficient, but of course, not ideal and wondering what the reason behind that placement is? I try to oil the ball nuts when possible, but I have to oil the screws on my first mill. That is a weekly job (no oil system) and every time I pull it apart for any reason, the ball nuts get filled with fresh oil.

Unfortunately, there isn't room for the between the nut and the bottom of the table for the oil line. I used some capillary tubing I had laying around, held in place with silicon glue to feed the nut hole.

[LeeWay]

You know, there is nothing stopping a guy from drilling and tapping a hole in the table directly over the nut hole. Then determine at what position the two hole line up, then just fill the nut with oil weekly and keep covered with a plug.
This is how I do this on my lathe for the carriage. Works pretty well and then you know the oil is getting where it needs to be.

[MichaelHenry]

There is also some sort of material used for way repair that you might consider if there is room. I do not recall the name of the stuff. Maybe someone here can shed some light there.

Were thinking of Turcite or Moglice?

Mike

[LeeWay]

Yep.
I think that is the stuff. I think Turcite might be the easiest to apply.

Turcite® : Aetna Plastics

Devitt Machinery Company | Devitt Machinery Company

[Titaniumboy]

Unfortunately, there isn't room for the between the nut and the bottom of the table for the oil line. I used some capillary tubing I had laying around, held in place with silicon glue to feed the nut hole.

My ballscrew nut is the same height as the ballscrew mount. There is not room even for capillary tubing (what the heck is that?) without machining a bit off of the ballscrew nut.

You know, there is nothing stopping a guy from drilling and tapping a hole in the table directly over the nut hole. Then determine at what position the two hole line up, then just fill the nut with oil weekly and keep covered with a plug.

I tried applying oil directly in the nut lube hole and I saw oil leaking around the nut seal fairly quickly. Maybe enough oil stays in there to do some good? I'm still hoping to find an alternative to drilling in my table.

I would get some blue dye and try that first just to see how flat they really are. I know they done look nice, but it would be good to know. I would not regrind or machine them though. I would spend a little time on it by hand. There is also some sort of material used for way repair that you might consider if there is room.

You guys are scaring me with all this talk of hand scraping and turcite. I think I need to get this mill back together again and start making some chips; otherwise - knowing me - I may get lost down the rabbit hole.

Titaniumboy

[LeeWay]

That is why I suggested checking the high spots first. It you have plenty of flat high spot, then the low spots won't matter so much. They will actually help hold oil. The big issue is if it is say less than 50% high spot and flat, it will start digging in on the other surface. It needs to have good coverage over the way that is the rub points. Ideal of course is probably 90 to 100% flat and smooth. I know that would take ages and lots of muscle.
That is why I suggested that Turcite might be a solution if it is real bad. Like I mentioned, it is hard to determine from the pictures. Only you can be the judge of that.

The small amount of scraping that I have done would lead me more to the Turcite side if I felt something was needed.

[Titaniumboy]

That is why I suggested checking the high spots first. It you have plenty of flat high spot, then the low spots won't matter so much. They will actually help hold oil. The big issue is if it is say less than 50% high spot and flat, it will start digging in on the other surface. It needs to have good coverage over the way that is the rub points. Ideal of course is probably 90 to 100% flat and smooth. I know that would take ages and lots of muscle.
That is why I suggested that Turcite might be a solution if it is real bad. Like I mentioned, it is hard to determine from the pictures. Only you can be the judge of that.

The small amount of scraping that I have done would lead me more to the Turcite side if I felt something was needed.

In order to take the saddle off I'm going to have to disconnect all the oil lines, remove the ball nut mount, and do some amount of disassembly on the Y-axis ballscrew. It WOULD be nice to see what the bottom side of the saddle looks like, plus I would have access to clean up the Y-axis ballscrew. And I would have the instructors (30 year machinist) help at the community college where I've been taking machining classes to evaluate the flatness and parallelness of the saddle . But it will add at least 2-3 weeks of the machine being down.

I'm wondering whether all of the Torus/Torus Pro/Pulsar saddles look this way? At least my saddle and AiR_GuNNeR's saddle looks like this. My suspicion is that if you and Ray took off the tables on your mills that you might see the same thing?

Anybody else willing to take off their tables so we can take a gander at your saddle? Trust me, if I can take off the table then anybody can.

Titaniumboy

[LeeWay]

I made a decision when mine arrived that I would not take it apart unless there was an odd noise or other issue with an axis. There never has been anything like that, so if it ain't broke....

Honestly it is setup for production with two vises and I really can't afford to take it apart. Time is the issue and I have very little of it. We keep about a 4 month waiting list for orders, so I don't dare slow down.

[LeeWay]

You should not need to remove the saddle to check the flatness. All you really need is a flash light behind a straight edge. That will give you a good visual sampling of what the surface is. That can be done in the machine.
The right decision here can really only be made by you. I was comfortable with my decision originally and after running about a year with it, I'm pretty sure my ways are satisfactory. I checked the backlash and tramming a couple weeks ago and it still pretty good. About like new, though I never recorded the results originally. I probably should have. This would be a good indicator for wear during the machines lifespan. I am certain that my oil system is doing it's job.

[Titaniumboy]

I haven't posted for a little while, so here is a quick update.

You should not need to remove the saddle to check the flatness. All you really need is a flash light behind a straight edge. That will give you a good visual sampling of what the surface is. That can be done in the machine.
The right decision here can really only be made by you. I was comfortable with my decision originally and after running about a year with it, I'm pretty sure my ways are satisfactory. I checked the backlash and tramming a couple weeks ago and it still pretty good. About like new, though I never recorded the results originally. I probably should have. This would be a good indicator for wear during the machines lifespan. I am certain that my oil system is doing it's job.

I have a machinist square that is almost 7-1/2" long that I used to check the saddle. While not quite long enough to cover the entire length of the saddle, my square covered most of the saddle real estate. I do see some gaps between the bottom of the square and the top of the saddle in the X direction, but I couldn't insert a .0015" feeler gauge (smallest one in the feeler gauge set) into the gap. Same thing when I spanned the saddle in the Y direction. Given the visual state of the saddle, I was fairly impressed that none of the grinder gouges were as large as a thou and a half. While I may revisit this issue in the future, I think for now that it is time to move on.

I'm still waiting on the replacement oil meter unit to arrive from Novakon before I am able to put the table back on.

I'm still waiting on the meter units to arrive. I had been under the impression that the meter units had been mailed back on April 15, but found out that they hadn't been mailed until April 22 (last Tuesday). I guess Novakon got completely buried due to the Cabin Fever Expo. Two weeks ago I had almost bought some meter units online, but didn't pull the trigger. Kinda regretting that right now. I'm hoping to see the meter units either today or tomorrow.

Titaniumboy

[AiR_GuNNeR]

That is why I suggested checking the high spots first. It you have plenty of flat high spot, then the low spots won't matter so much. They will actually help hold oil. The big issue is if it is say less than 50% high spot and flat, it will start digging in on the other surface. It needs to have good coverage over the way that is the rub points. Ideal of course is probably 90 to 100% flat and smooth. I know that would take ages and lots of muscle.
That is why I suggested that Turcite might be a solution if it is real bad. Like I mentioned, it is hard to determine from the pictures. Only you can be the judge of that.

The small amount of scraping that I have done would lead me more to the Turcite side if I felt something was needed.

Amount of high spots is only one aspect of it. Parallelism between the two sides is just as important. My saddle had had high spots on opposite ends-opposite sides. Taking the saddle off wasn't too big of a problem.

T-Boy, you don't even need a granite block to get an idea of how flat the saddle it. Just wipe the Y axis way down to get all oil off it, then blue it up. Carefully set the saddle back in place and give it a few shimmys to spot the saddle. If you have a surface block available, all the better however. The normal scraping route is to scrape in the bottom of the saddle, and then use that to spot the Y axis ways.
Regarding the oil hole on the nut, if you put the table back in place and measure the clearance between the nut and the bottom of the table, don't you have a good .070" gap? Capillary tubing is thin tubing. I think what I used was about probably 40-50 thou OD.
Eric

[Titaniumboy]

T-Boy, you don't even need a granite block to get an idea of how flat the saddle it. Just wipe the Y axis way down to get all oil off it, then blue it up. Carefully set the saddle back in place and give it a few shimmys to spot the saddle. If you have a surface block available, all the better however. The normal scraping route is to scrape in the bottom of the saddle, and then use that to spot the Y axis ways.

As it turns out I have a 9x12 surface plate (bought from Enco during one of their free shipping offers). For now, could I leave the saddle installed and bring the surface plate to the saddle? What do you suggest to use for blueing?

Amount of high spots is only one aspect of it. Parallelism between the two sides is just as important. My saddle had had high spots on opposite ends-opposite sides. Taking the saddle off wasn't too big of a problem.

I see that both ways on the saddle top must be parallel to each other, and that both ways on the saddle bottom must be parallel to each other also. but must the saddle top ways be parallel to the saddle bottom ways?

Regarding the oil hole on the nut, if you put the table back in place and measure the clearance between the nut and the bottom of the table, don't you have a good .070" gap? Capillary tubing is thin tubing. I think what I used was about probably 40-50 thou OD.

My ballscrew nut is exactly the same height as the ballscrew mount. Your nut looked like it was a little lower than your mount? I am seriously considering removing the ball screw from the ball nut, and then machining the ball nut down to give clearance for thin tubing. Where does one find capillary tubing, and what is it normally used for?

Attachment 234460

I'm still waiting on the meter units to arrive. <snip> I'm hoping to see the meter units either today or tomorrow.

Two #3 oil meter units and an 18" section of 4mm aluminum tubing arrived in the mail just a couple of hours after posting the message above. Unfortunately, I won't be able to install these until Wednesday or Thursday. I've got a manual machining class where the hands-on lesson for today is how to dress the wheel on a surface grinder. Then I'll finish up the four machinist parallels I made 3 or 4 years ago and surface grind them flat and parallel to within .0002".

Titaniumboy

[Titaniumboy]

So its been a month without an update, but I've got a couple of questions before then. I'm trying to take advantage of a Enco 20% sale with free shipping that is going on until 11 PM Eastern time (four hours from now) and I've got a couple of questions. The Enco codes are FRDS5 for the 20% off and FRFT5 for the free shipping on orders $149 or larger.

Is everyone having good luck with Koolmist? I'm looking at the 1 gallon jug of Koolmist 77 for $28.95 ($23.16 after sale) which says it will work for flood cooling. I'm looking for a coolant that won't stain even though I might touch the mill for a couple of weeks.

I have a 4" Enco vise for my G0704 bench mill, but I'm wondering whether a 5" vise is too large for the Torus?

Thanks for any help.

Titaniumboy

[kvom]

I use Kurt 6" visa on my NM200.

I've also used Koolmist 77, but had some corrosion with it. Seems it needs distilled water for avoiding the corrosion. OTOH, I didn't really clean the table after use, which also might avoid the problem with using tap water.

[Titaniumboy]

Hey everyone,

It has been a very long time since the last update. Due to family issues, the mill got sidetracked and buried in the shop. I finally got around to getting the mill unearthed during the last week, but of course ran into problems. I had taken a boatload of pictures during the disassembly of the table and ball screw, but those pictures have evidently been lost. The main problem is that I don't fully recollect the how the pieces of the left side X-axis go back together again.

Here are the X-axis parts (except for the motor and right side parts)

Attachment 343504 Attachment 343506 Attachment 343508 Attachment 343510

The only thing that is clear from my notes from 2-1/2 years ago is that Spacer G goes between Bearing F and Bearing H, and that the bearing part numbers each face towards the spacer. I think that the whole stack (Spacer E, Bearing F, Spacer G, Bearing H) all drop down into the motor housing/bearing block and then is clamped down by Clamp D. Clamp D appears to be concave and not flat, and I don't know whether it matters which way it is installed?

I know that Part A is used to lock Bearing Nut B onto the end of the ball screw. I'm not quite sure where Bearing Nut C is supposed to go.

From my faulty recollection, I seem to remember that I originally disassembled the motor from the motor housing, and then disconnected the Bearing Nuts B and C, and then the Clamp D. That then allowed me to remove the motor housing/bearing block from the table, and that allowed me to slide the table off of the saddle. With the table then off of the mill, then I was able to disconnect the ball screw nut from where it was attached to the saddle.

The plan is to reverse those steps, unless anyone has any warnings or tips/tricks for reassembly. I'm also not quite sure how much to torque the Bearing Nuts B and C.

Thanks for any ideas and help.

[Titaniumboy]

And here is a picture of the motor housing/bearing block

Attachment 343512


And here is the latest view of the crime scene

Attachment 343514

[LeeWay]

I still have my burnt out one here.
If I get a chance tomorrow, I will pull it apart and snap some pictures.

[Titaniumboy]

That would be great! Thanks for the help.

[Novakon]

Hello,

Your right, the parts break down on the web side would not help your here. I thought that you were referring to the Torus PRO.

Normally, the ball nut is not removed from the screw and the motor mount not removed from the table. The motor mount has 2 tapered pins for alignment and need to used to pin it into position when you put it back on. I would do this first before assembly. The ball nut may loose some of the ball bearings inside so you will have to closely inspect this. If necessary, I have spare ball screw from the Pulsar that should be the same.

The arrangement of the parts are correct except for "A". this will go between nuts "B" and "C". "A" is the anti-spin device where you bend the tab into the nut slot after you have tightened the assembly. Just snug up the nuts to remove the play and don't over torque them. The bearings need to be placed opposing each other as you said, otherwise the bearing cage will pull away and destroy the bearing also.

Clamping cover "D" will lock the outer bearing sleeves together with the 4 bolts. Use equal pressure between bolts to ensure the bearing don't bind. There will be about 1mm gap between the clamp and the casting when your done. This locks the outer sleeves of the bearings. This is the clamp that pinches the bearings together and you don't want to overtighten or you can damage the ball bearings.

The normal way to remove the table assembly was to:
1: On the right side of the table, remove the ball screw support bearing cap.
2: Remove the motor with coupling.
3: Loosen and remove the X GIBS.
4: Remove/loosen the bearing cover in the motor mount.
5: Slide the table to the right to push the bearing assembly out of the motor mount as an assembly. If the bearing are a tight fit, you may need a little persuasion with a block of wood and hammer.
6: Remove the two locking nuts and bearings from the ball screw.
7: Slide the table to the left to remove it.

The ball screw assembly will still be attached to the saddle and then can be removed from the mount by removing the 4 bolts on the ball nut. The nut should not be removed from the screw or you may loose the ball bearing inside.

The process can be reversed to reassemble.

Hopefully this helps in the assembly for you.

John

[Titaniumboy]

I have successfully installed all of the components for the X-Axis Motor Mount back to the mill during the last week. I'm happy to report that, after a couple of tries, that I have the backlash somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 thou.

The pic below shows the correct order of the X-axis parts. John was correct in noting that anti-spin washer A goes between the nuts B and C. I had incorrectly shown the order of the two bearings (F and H )and the two spacers (E and G) in the original picture, even though my notes clearly showed the correct way and I had misread those notes.

Inner race spacer G goes on the end of the ballscrew. The end of the ballscrew is then placed through the motor mount before the inner bearing H, outer race spacer E, and outer bearing F are installed. I knew this to be the case and still installed the two bearings and spacer onto the ballscrew at first without having the ballscrew through the motor mount. Thanks goodness for 3-jaw bearing pullers.


Attachment 438306


I wasn't completely confident in the order that the components needed to be installed, so I took the opportunity to measure all the parts and then drew them up in Solidworks while everything was still in pieces. Good thing that I did because this is when I discovered that I had goofed up in the original picture on where the inner and outer spacers were located with respect to the two bearings. I modeled everything except the anti-spin nut A.

The measurements and subsequent 3D model illustrates the small gap between the Clamping Cover D and the motor mount casting that John mentioned above. The model even highlighted that the outer nut B would have only a very small amount of thread available on the ballscrew. I initially thought I had measured something wrong when this became apparent when drawing the model, but during assembly I found that the outer nut B really did have only about a thread or two to work with. I probably should have shaved a millimeter or two off of the inner spacer G so that the outer nut B would have more threads to work with, but I decided to skip it at this point.



Attachment 438320


Attachment 438322