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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Novakon > Just ordered the last melon (Torus)
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  1. #381

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    there are a few rotaries on ebay that look ok for light milling . the belt driven are worth avoiding unless a guy modifies it, there is too much shaft flex and belt stretch . I bought a 100mm quite a few years ago for light jobs and after looking it over I tossed it on the shelf to be stripped and salvaged for possible future projects

    Thats interesting on the torus , I hadn't realized there was that one in between the other mills they offered . Curious if you got the advertised travel , mine is no where near it

  2. #382
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    I haven't been using the tts holders on the torus . I'd like to but I'd need another hand to hold the spindle while I wrench it tight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Titaniumboy View Post
    Good news! I’ve been successfully using TTS for a little while now without the need for a third hand.

    All I do is insert the TTS tool holder into the spindle and hold it with my left hand. Then I slightly tighten the spindle drawbar with my right fingers while still holding the TTS tool. I verify that the tool is held enough that it is not going to drop and then I release my left hand. Then I take a 24mm wrench for the spindle flats and a smaller wrench for the drawbar and tighten the bejeesus out of them.

    This works for me, but I think it might not work for your Torus Pro. The reason this works for me is because my Torus has a servo spindle and so the servo tries to maintain position when I hand tighten the spindle drawbar. Your non-servo spindle isn’t going to maintain position and so you have nothing to hold the spindle still when you go to tighten the drawbar.


    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem
    Curious if you got the advertised travel , mine is no where near it.
    It’s been years since I looked into this. My recollection is that the travels, as delivered, fell quite short of the advertised travels. I gained back most of the advertised travels by adjusting the proximity switch stops. One problem is that I have to intentionally keep the X-axis stop several inches shy of the limit switch or it would crash into the side of the left coolant tray. I’ve been meaning to cut out that part of the coolant tray to let the X-axis reach its full travel, but other mods and repairs always seem to take priority.

    I think I dorked up my Z-axis ballscrew several years ago during the process of maximizing the Z travel. I had moved the limit switch stop too far and the Z-axis ballscrew nut reached the end of the ballscrew and made a bunch of loud clicking sounds before I was able to push the emergency stop button. I suspect this is when my then 4 thou of backlash (now currently at 6 thou of backlash) occurred.

  3. #383
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    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    There are hundreds of 4th axis units on Ebay if 100mm (4") is big enough. I wish there was a 150mm option available but that gets way more expensive. Google something like cnc 4th axis and you will see loads of the 100mm ones.

    Like this one?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/-US-CNC-Rou...edirect=mobile


    Click image for larger version. 

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    I would still need a driver for the stepper motor?

  4. #384
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    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Quote Originally Posted by Titaniumboy
    CTC tools is listing individual ER20 collets at $3.75 each. That’s a pretty good price assuming they are half way concentric and if shipping is reasonable.

    They want $26.25 shipping for 11 dinky ER20 collets. I’m used to lower shipping costs out of China.

  5. #385

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Quote Originally Posted by Titaniumboy View Post
    I’m used to lower shipping costs out of China.
    they ship quick compared to the lower priced shippers . I'm in Canada so I'm used to high shipping costs of anything lol . The other day a spindle driver from tormach cost me an extra $96.51 for ups .
    There are sellers on aliexpress or ebay who sell collets cheap with low cost shipping but it's hard to say how the quality will be . You could try shars as well

  6. #386
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    400

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Quote Originally Posted by Titaniumboy View Post
    Like this one?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/-US-CNC-Rou...edirect=mobile


    Click image for larger version. 

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    I would still need a driver for the stepper motor?
    Yeah like that one. I have never tried one so I don't know how the quality is. You will need a driver for it. If the stepper drive Novakon sells is ok they are available and not too expensive. Make sure you buy from a reputable place there are lots of fakes out there of varying quality.

  7. #387

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    thats the style I mentioned previously about having too much flex with . It would do for a wood router but no good for a mill in my opinion .

  8. #388
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    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Do you have a link to something more suited for a milling machine? I looked a little bit at the Sherline rotary tables last night.

  9. #389

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    aside from the sherline I think a rotary from tormach or novakon seem to be the next best thing . A while back I bought a decent rotary from little machineshop which I still need to put to work some day but it appears they don't sell it anymore .

    The 100mm belt driven could be made to work on light machining if beefed up . It would require a thicker belt or wider pulleys and belt , plus a stepper with a larger diameter shaft . While playing around with mine I noticed a considerable amount of flex on the 1/4" shaft of the motor . I considered modifying mine but in the end it was easier to cut my losses and save it for when I piece my router back together

    Another thing I bought which is really nice and another thing I haven't put to work is a parker rotary stage . They are high precision and very expensive , but they can be found on ebay for a reasonable price if a guy is patient or lucky to find the right one right away . I wouldn't do any excessively heavy work with one but they are very well made

  10. #390
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    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    Another thing I bought which is really nice and another thing I haven't put to work is a parker rotary stage . They are high precision and very expensive , but they can be found on ebay for a reasonable price if a guy is patient or lucky to find the right one right away . I wouldn't do any excessively heavy work with one but they are very well made

    Tormach’s least expensive rotary option appears to be a 6” rotary table and is priced at $1595. That is ridiculous.

    How does this Parker Rotary Stage look? $465 plus shipping. I’m not sure if it can be mounted vertically and there is no chuck or motor,

    Attachment 497438

    Attachment 497440

  11. #391

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    that looks similar to the one I have , can't remember if it's a 6" or the 5 but I think it's the same one as that .
    They are very precise but I've never got to the point of running it on the mill so I can't say how they will perform . I wouldn't do any ridiculous hogging on one but they are well made with brass gears

    It would be easy to mount one of those to a 5" angle plate , and a mounting plate can easily be milled for a lathe chuck . That was my plan anyhow . Now I'm considering it for a possible 5th axis , the low profile will be handy for that

  12. #392
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    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    I wonder what a good price would be for one of these Parker Rotary Stages? This Parker unit sold recently with a chuck for under $360 delivered.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/18604730534...Bk9SR8LEkJjdYg


    Attachment 497446

    Attachment 497448


    Interestingly, there is no backlash specs listed for these units. See pdf page 31. (PDF Warning - link opens a pdf file.)

    https://www.parker.com/content/dam/P...-Actuators.pdf

  13. #393

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    they are preloaded to remove backlash . Problem with ebay is that good deals come and go , the parker stages are very costly if bought new . I bought mine for 200 and I jumped on it the moment it came up . I honestly thought there had to be something wrong with it at the price but I just got lucky

    I somehow lost the sticker on mine and it took some digging through emails and accounts to figure out what I have . Mine is a 200rt 5" (same as posted) at 90:1 ratio instead of 180:1 . The lesser a ratio the the bigger the gear teeth will be which I think will take a bit more abuse , plus be twice as fast as the 180:1
    The load capacity of the 5" isn't far off from a sherline rotary .
    if you can find a 6" you will be better off . 6" and above has a lot more load capacity . If you look at the pdf you'll see the difference in load capacities

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/www.motionu...rker_200RT.pdf

    The rm seem to be heavier built that the rt series

    btw the top plate is removable which will make it easy to drill and tap so that a chuck can be bolted on . Just need a chuck which can bolt from the front of the chuck rather than from behind

  14. #394
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    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Wow, the 5” is rated for 25 pounds, whereas the 6” is rated for a whopping 150 pounds. That is quite an increase.

    I see that the 8” is also rated at 150 pounds, and the load ratings for the 10” and 12” only rise marginally to 200 pounds.

    I’ll be watching eBay for any deals that come down the pike. Thanks for the help.

    Hopefully I will be posting a little more often now that summer is winding down.

  15. #395
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    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    I just received a new Vista CNC P2-S control pendant in the mail. This is an upgrade to my existing P11A-S and will do control functions in addition to the normal jog functions.

    Attachment 497792

    Attachment 497794



    I also did a “temporary” install of a heavy duty touch screen back in June. It is working out well so far. I might still need a keyboard and mouse once in a while so I need to figure out a small surface for them. That would let me finally get rid of the other screen that has been sitting on a TV tray for a long time. The touch screen can fold back flush with the enclosure when not in use.

    It is a bit flimsy right now as it is just mounted on the chip tray panel. I think some or two reinforcing braces will solve that issue.

    Attachment 497796

  16. #396
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    I’m looking to get a spare stepper driver, or maybe it will be used for a future fourth axis. I currently have three Leadshine MA860H stepper drivers. Amazon and eBay are chock full of clones and copies of the MA860H at very attractive prices.

    Is there a better or updated stepper driver that I should be looking at? It appears that Leadshine no longer makes the MA860H?

  17. #397

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    the MA860 seems to be the best within a reasonable price . Leadshine replaced that drive with the MA860E if I recall correctly . Stepper online carries 860 drivers which are basically the same . The only difference between brands is the step , dir and power pinouts can be different (usually mirrored ) which can bite a guy in the butt if not paying attention when swapping drivers .
    I've gone through a number of drivers on my torus over the years and I honestly don't see any difference from the leadshine vs knockoff brands , they all work and last just as long .
    I would suggest getting extra power connectors which are good to swap out every so often . There is a fair bit of power going to the drives and the connectors tend to burn up over time which usually cooks the driver . They can be bought on aliexpress for cheap . My mills are always powered on so the connectors need to be swapped more than a mill that is powered on occasionally

  18. #398
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    Oct 2009
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    481

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Thanks MM for your help. It looks like Leadshine, at least for their non-network stepper drives, has only the EM-S series and the DM series.

    Leadshine General Stepper Drives

    What really triggered this is my volunteer work at a local high school where I've been helping them get their Tormach 440 up and running. They want to use the 440 to support their FIRST Robotics competition. They also have a Tormach 24R router that blew a Z-axis stepper driver. For some reason I had it in my head that the 24R router also used the same MA860H driver as my Novakon Torus.

    It turns out that I was mistaken - big shocker. The 24R router is actually using the Leadshine 3ND883 (Tormach part #32000) which is apparently driving polyphase stepper motors. It takes a considerable amount of time for the high school's purchasing department to issue PO's, and so the 24R router might be down for another month waiting for a replacement. Yes, the high school should have had spare drivers, but the fact remains that a month of downtime is going to really hurt the robot construction timeline.

    I may just pony up for an el-cheapo temporary driver out of my own funds until the Tormach driver shows up. I'm about to open up the malfunctioning 3ND883 and see if there is anything obvious that I might be able to repair.

  19. #399

    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    your right , it's the dm860e i was thinking about .
    Maybe the kids could do a weekend bottle drive / fundraiser for the shop ? I'm sure a lot of locals would be more than happy to support them

    here is an alternative to buying from tormach which is a fair bit cheaper https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/le...r-motor-3dm883

  20. #400
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    Re: Just ordered the last melon (Torus)

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    here is an alternative to buying from tormach which is a fair bit cheaper https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/le...r-motor-3dm883
    Great minds must think alike. I had also discovered the 3DM883 as the likely successor to the 3ND883. I found one on the eBay site of PLC Direct for $101.28 with free shipping. They say it could get to me as early as this Thursday and it just might given that they are in Southern California. Sure beats Tormach’s price of $183.75

    Attachment 501158Attachment 501160


    Tormach’s version of the 3ND883 on the left and the 3DM883 is on the right. I’m going to have to be careful as Leadshine has changed up the power terminals between the two models.

    Perhaps a bigger problem is that the Tormach 3ND883 uses a 10 pin IDC header while both the 3ND883 and the 3DM883 both use Phoenix style connectors for the signal connections.

    https://www.stevenrhine.com/?p=2687

    Attachment 501166


    I will have to find a female 10 pin IDC connector that I can mate up to the Tormach male 10 pin IDC connector and then terminate the individual ribbon wires to the proper Phoenix connector terminals on the new/temporary 3DM883.

    Attachment 501168

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