[FineLineAuto]

How does everyone do their fixtures? Do y'all pin the table or just use a master fixture plate?


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[Maglin]

I've used small fixture plates that are held in a vise and just indicated in with a pin and a height check. Was good enough for aircraft work. And was easy to store and move around. The machines had huge fixture tables installed that had to weight close to a ton with the views screwed down to them. Would be within 5 tenths.

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[bhurts]

I rarely use pins. I just mill one side of the fixture straight and bore a small hole (1/4-1/2") somewhere known on the plate. When I need it I just indicate the straight edge in within .0005 or less then do the same for the bored hole. The bored hole is located at 0,0 in my cad drawing so if I set my fixtures 0 there the program is good to go. Sometimes I will bore two holes so I can just indicate them both and skew my program to match then. I also work on aircraft parts and this works well. Of course I often need to have my fixtures flat within .0005 also so I indicate across the faces and shim or jack accordingly.

Ben

[FineLineAuto]

I rarely use pins. I just mill one side of the fixture straight and bore a small hole (1/4-1/2") somewhere known on the plate. When I need it I just indicate the straight edge in within .0005 or less then do the same for the bored hole. The bored hole is located at 0,0 in my cad drawing so if I set my fixtures 0 there the program is good to go. Sometimes I will bore two holes so I can just indicate them both and skew my program to match then. I also work on aircraft parts and this works well. Of course I often need to have my fixtures flat within .0005 also so I indicate across the faces and shim or jack accordingly.

Ben

Ben,

I could do this but it doesn't meet one of the goals I want to accomplish; Quick changeover of fixtures for part runs. Ideally I would like to be able to un-bolt a fixture plate, bolt in another one, load the next program up, change the tool, and press cycle start. Indicating each time I change fixture plates screws up that workflow.

My original thoughts were if I pinned the table I could pin it referenced from the home position that then the work offsets would be know and calculable without having to indicate. The other advantage of pinning the table that I see is that if I ever need to do custom parts I still have the T-Slots available for general hold downs or a vise. I also considered doing a master fixture plate and using views, which would be nice for a not having to drill a shiny new table perspective.

Maglin,

That sounds like a reasonable solution, but I would think you would be limiting yourself on the amount of parts you can make on a single fixture. I've seen this done before fairly fast. We might try this route first to ease ourselves in.

I guess a little more background would help:

Up until this point the only production work we have done is plastic sheet work which doesn't really require anything special outside of holding down the ends. We are a CNC Router shop and the fixturing requirements are pretty different from doing production metal parts on the mill.

We are getting a new Torus Pro soon to start producing some of the parts we had previously farmed out to job shops. Doing setups on the vise for production parts is definitely not the way to go. We are hoping to do between 5 and 10 parts on the fixture plate at a time. We are looking for fast swap out of fixtures and a low-medium density of parts. I was hoping to get some feedback on how everyone sets up their fixtures for production parts so we don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. It's great to see the different approaches.


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[kvom]

I don't like drilling holes in my machine's table, so I'd go with the master fixture plate.

[LeeWay]

A master plate would be a better choice I think.
I used similar on my small mill. It is actually a mag chuck and i use a couple 1/8" dowel pins to locate the tool plates on the chuck. Works fine. That mill has no T slots and I needed to be able to machine sheet steel with it. It worked well for years doing that until I got my plasma finished.
I no longer actually need the chuck, but all my tool plates and vise mounts for it are designed for the chuck, so it stays.
I only use a vise on my Torus.
I do batches of the same part and they have lots of holes and threads, so one at a time uncomplicates the whole process. It is an investment in time and money to make tooling plates. I can't see that loading 5 to 10 parts on one plate is any faster than one at a time on a vise though. We still change tools by hand. With an ATC, I do see the benefit.

[ChrisAttebery]

I started making fixtures for all of my parts BECAUSE I don't have an ATC. Then I only have to change tools every 4-8 parts. I try to do as many ops as I can while the parts are still in one block of metal, then I flip them over and mill the back side off. Check out my thread in the Benchtop Machines forum for some ideas. I

If I had a torus I think I'd make a fixture plate and permanently attach it to the table for the type of work I do.

[amish_rabbi]

check out the nyccnc youtube channel, he has a video about his master fixture plate on there. I would do it the way he did it to avoid holes in my table as well.

[FineLineAuto]

I started making fixtures for all of my parts BECAUSE I don't have an ATC. Then I only have to change tools every 4-8 parts. I try to do as many ops as I can while the parts are still in one block of metal, then I flip them over and mill the back side off. Check out my thread in the Benchtop Machines forum for some ideas. I

If I had a torus I think I'd make a fixture plate and permanently attach it to the table for the type of work I do.

I saw the plate you made. We use the pitbull clamps as well and they work out great. Thanks for the ideas.


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[FineLineAuto]

A master plate would be a better choice I think.
I used similar on my small mill. It is actually a mag chuck and i use a couple 1/8" dowel pins to locate the tool plates on the chuck. Works fine. That mill has no T slots and I needed to be able to machine sheet steel with it. It worked well for years doing that until I got my plasma finished.
I no longer actually need the chuck, but all my tool plates and vise mounts for it are designed for the chuck, so it stays.
I only use a vise on my Torus.
I do batches of the same part and they have lots of holes and threads, so one at a time uncomplicates the whole process. It is an investment in time and money to make tooling plates. I can't see that loading 5 to 10 parts on one plate is any faster than one at a time on a vise though. We still change tools by hand. With an ATC, I do see the benefit.

We would be changing tools by hand too. The benefit would be that one tool change does multiple parts instead of one. I definitely see the benefit of simplifying the process though.

A vise might be the right solution for some of our parts, but not all I think. We do some long 60" parts that need operations down the entire length. I was thinking that those pieces would be better served using a fixture with a pin that indexes on one of the previous holes machined.

Regardless, if we use a vise for some of the parts it will be mounted on a sub-plate so we can change it out quickly.

Thanks for the ideas.


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[FineLineAuto]

check out the nyccnc youtube channel, he has a video about his master fixture plate on there. I would do it the way he did it to avoid holes in my table as well.

I've looked at his videos and was going to buy that plate the 1100 when I almost pulled the trigger on one a year ago. The one thing I don't like about it is was the amount of holes it had. I would think you would really only ever use a few pins.

Seems like Tormach doesn't advertise the ground base plates anymore and are selling their own aluminum tool plates instead. You can still get them from Tosa Tools but they aren't cheap: http://www.tosatool.com/mf/mfbaseplates.htm

On another note, Charter oak has a great write up on pinning their tables: http://www.ihcnc.com/pages/mill-tips.php




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[amish_rabbi]

yea I don't know if id buy one at that price! Most likely beg my friends with bigger machines to let me use them for a day

the other thing I've seen is a mitee-bite vac magic with a plate surfaced on both sides then your fixture bolted to that Mitee-Bite Products Co. - Vacmagic^®

that is a bit cheaper option and you can make the blank pallets yourself to save some money (at the cost of machine time)

[keithmcelhinney]

I pinned my table on my 135. It made life so much easier. Not going to do that on the Pro. I am going to do a master fixture plate and have my fixtures index to that. The main reason is that I have to have some of my fixtures off the table by a couple of inches since the Z limitation won't allow a short tool to touch the table. Also I will just index to the master plate and not have to set x and y for each plate...

[FineLineAuto]

I pinned my table on my 135. It made life so much easier. Not going to do that on the Pro. I am going to do a master fixture plate and have my fixtures index to that. The main reason is that I have to have some of my fixtures off the table by a couple of inches since the Z limitation won't allow a short tool to touch the table. Also I will just index to the master plate and not have to set x and y for each plate...

Glad to hear the pinning worked well for you. I am concerned about the z limitation as well with regards to pinning the table. Are you making the master plate yourself or buying it?


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[keithmcelhinney]

My plan is going to be a little different than what most consider a master plate. I am going to use either 2 or 2.5" square stock and make 2 risers on the outside of the table. These will bolt down to the table and be square. They will have pins and threaded holes for each plate. Each plate will be the same size and bolt to the risers. They will all use the same x,y zero. This will allow me to flip plates quickly and easily. One added benefit of this is that you can have any parts "fall through" the fixture. I make license plate frames and currently I have to bolt the middle cut out area down. It also makes it easy to just use nuts or whatever on the bottom of the fixture for any hold down bolts. Stripping a thread out on a fixture stinks and I don't have the best luck with threaded inserts either.

I haven't worked out all of the details yet because I want my machine running before I design everything. Don't want to get all the designs done and realize that my travels are not completely accurate.

I am not by an means a real machinist. I make a limited amount of parts and fixturing increased my efficiency ten-fold. I am planning on starting a thread on my fixtures before I cut any of them to get the help of everyone here.

[LeeWay]

I do agree that we would be changing tools less often with a fixture plate. However, that isn't a difficult task for us. 5 seconds usually and 10 seconds at most. There are other considerations too.
My Son has been working full time for me since 09. He was part time for a couple years before that. He recently got engaged. I hired his Fiance for part time work. She is a fast learner and has excellent work ethics. Much much better than my Son's. He definitely did not learn his ethics from me. He just doesn't get in a hurry. Could be a blessing though. That means he works safely.
Anyway, she is not a big girl. She is a scraper, but I think large tool plates might be too much for her to swap in and out by herself. Right now she sets up and runs the Torus and the lathe by herself for whatever job we are doing. That is great I think. She is also starting to learn assembly and she is picking that up quickly as well.

We do make quite a few different parts on the mill routinely. Maybe 12 to 15 parts all told. 6 to 8 every week. That is how many tooling plates I would have to invest in. The cast plate would cost, then the hardware and clamps for each. That would wind up being a pretty sizable investment. Then say I want to change something. Hooboy!

As it is, for us, everything fits on the main vise with the same jaws milled to suit all the product parts. I use one other vise, which is a sine vise set at 45 degrees for beveling one of our steel parts. It just mounts off to the side of the table. So, we never remove these vises. No lost time swapping out plates, setting up different jobs etc., no large investment for tooling plates that would also require ample storage.

So the work flow and machine usage has to be carefully considered by anyone setting up a machine for any type of production. What works better for one, may not work better for another.

[kvom]

Ebay user 'sleepystevo' sells cast aluminum Mic-6 tooling plates that would be excellent as fixture plates.

[FineLineAuto]

I do agree that we would be changing tools less often with a fixture plate. However, that isn't a difficult task for us. 5 seconds usually and 10 seconds at most. There are other considerations too.
My Son has been working full time for me since 09. He was part time for a couple years before that. He recently got engaged. I hired his Fiance for part time work. She is a fast learner and has excellent work ethics. Much much better than my Son's. He definitely did not learn his ethics from me. He just doesn't get in a hurry. Could be a blessing though. That means he works safely.
Anyway, she is not a big girl. She is a scraper, but I think large tool plates might be too much for her to swap in and out by herself. Right now she sets up and runs the Torus and the lathe by herself for whatever job we are doing. That is great I think. She is also starting to learn assembly and she is picking that up quickly as well.

We do make quite a few different parts on the mill routinely. Maybe 12 to 15 parts all told. 6 to 8 every week. That is how many tooling plates I would have to invest in. The cast plate would cost, then the hardware and clamps for each. That would wind up being a pretty sizable investment. Then say I want to change something. Hooboy!

As it is, for us, everything fits on the main vise with the same jaws milled to suit all the product parts. I use one other vise, which is a sine vise set at 45 degrees for beveling one of our steel parts. It just mounts off to the side of the table. So, we never remove these vises. No lost time swapping out plates, setting up different jobs etc., no large investment for tooling plates that would also require ample storage.

So the work flow and machine usage has to be carefully considered by anyone setting up a machine for any type of production. What works better for one, may not work better for another.

Leeway,

I agree that the ideal work holding solution definitely varies from shop to shop. I used to work with electro perm magnetic base plates that would hold down mold blanks to be machined. It was ideal for those parts but unworkable with aluminum and thin stock.

At the end if the day, each of us needs to choose what works best for our particular setup and workflow.

I fully plan on keeping a vise around for some parts. It'll just be on a sub plate and easily removable.


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[FineLineAuto]

Ebay user 'sleepystevo' sells cast aluminum Mic-6 tooling plates that would be excellent as fixture plates.

I find it amusing he mainly sells cigar store Indians...

On another note, what's the T-slot spacing on the bed?


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[Geof]

...My plan is going to be a little different than what most consider a master plate...(Keithmcelhinney)

Your description sounds like your system will be something like a bridge that spans the table. This is a good approach because it allows you to maintain the fixture plate mounting location even when there are vises on the table; I have made similar setups for my shop. But it does have a disadvantage in that the long span of the plate can vibrate badly like a big guitar string so some supplementary supports along the length may be helpful. One approach for these is right-angle brackets that bolt to the tee-slots and to the edge of the plate. This way when these are installed they do not tend to move the plate up or down.

kvom;
The Mic-6 cast tooling plates are excellent for fixture plates, that is what they are made for. The light weight is very nice but they do have a limitation: Any tapped holes should have threaded inserts preferably stepped bushings inserted from the back side. Mic-6 just does not have the strength and fatigue resistance to last very long when bolts are frequently tightened and loosened