[ungie]

Hail Guys!

In the near past, My experience has grown a lot in intelligent roughing techniques. By the way I have started to face the high table feedrate related problems such as clattering in high feed small corners(basically during aggressive direction changes[toolpaths are generated with Edgecam 2013 R1]).
I have two VMC-s equipped with Fanuc 0iMD control which booth are supporting AI advanced preview control/AI contour control (G5.1). I have already set up a set of parameters to eliminate all the ballscrew destructive acceleration/deceleration habits during high feedrate operations on these machines.
So My interests are the following:

1.: How does Okuma OSP U10M controller carries out axis (Feed not Spindle) acceleration/deceleration when no high feed functions are enabled(Just asking because it seems to Me that Okuma does not make any clattering or undesirable axis loads during the above mentioned conditions, meanwhile Fanuc 0iMD would definitely damage the ballscrews in high feed operations without using acc/dec control function in a continuous production)

2.:What are the applicable high speed machining functions for Okuma OSP U10M control? I would really appreciate an understandable explanation next to them, because the manual is not always the best thing to understand with its convoluted sentences.

3.: Is it healthy for the ballscrews if I use High Feed programs (F3000 mm/min maximum) without programming any direction change smoothing techniques on an Okuma ESV 4020 VMC equipped with OSP U10M control? (Tool path generated by Edgecam does not always the smoothest, when used on Fanuc 0iMD it makes clattering noise in sudden direction changes if programmed without AI advanced preview control/AI contour control enabled)



By this way I am tempted to start another thread about the above mentioned Fanuc functions because there are some phrases in those manuals as well which would be nice to hear translated to understandable format. And there are a lot of things to ask about, like parameters, working of predefined sets (G5.1 Q1 R1-10). I think I will just leave that for tomorrow.

Please forgive me for the poor selection of words in some cases and generally for my English!

[Algirdas]

It's only my opinion, based on my individual understanding the question. I'm not sure, if I understood the question purely.
* Okuma in one-source product. The control (in wide understanding: functions included) is in balance with hardware (iron). So, if you will not change relevant parameters, you can't make th Okuma to damage itself (without collision, of course). The "relevant parameters" are not easy accessible.
* Okuma's understanding of high - speed machining is different if to compare with Fanuc and others. Okuma provides a smooth tool path and there are several Okuma technologies to make it faster.
* You can use feedrate as high as you want, it doesn't affects Okuma hardware. The machine must be properly leveled adjusted and greased, of course.

[tea hole]

1: how old are your machines running AI Control?
2: I think you are talking about "Hi Cut" and "Super-Nurbs" type options, but on the U10, you are talking back in the Hi-Cut days.
3: The OSP will not let you hurt the machine assuming it hasn't been altered.
I've run this exact machine, and I can say if you can't get anything else (Okuma) then it will do a good job, but when you are working on High Feed parts/programs, you may want to invest in equipment designed and constructed with that type of work in mind. I'm thinking MB56/66 bridge style machines or an HMC MA/MB 400/4000.

Why are you looking at a machine constructed nearly a 2 decades ago? If you are looking to utilize the latest in machining tech, doesn't using the latest (or at least something from this decade) make sense? Just my initial thoughts.

[ungie]

Thanks to booth of You for the infos: I have been strengthened in my toughs.

To answer Your question: My Fanuc machines are 2 year old at this moment, they have been bought from the local brand supplier ind factory new state shipped from Taiwan.
The machines are Pinnacle wmc 650 and Pinnacle wmc 2000s. My opinion based on my 2 year experience whit these machines, that the way in which the manufacturer implemented the controller to the machines was not the most sophisticated. What do I mean whit this, a few examples: The controller package (as far as I belive) has the bell shaped acc/dec function, but it is not configured up whit the proper parameters and by factory setting it uses linear acc/dec control, neither the G5.1 R1-10 table is configured. second thing the factory is unable to create a proper macro for the gearbox on the WMC 2000s and now the machine is able to be feed in to material before reaching the actually programmed rpm, and that is clearly a macro problem, the SAR parameter is set properly.

To answer your last question tea hole: No offense, if You would be in picture with Hungarian financials side, I bet You would try to maximize the potential in Your actual machine park and Your opinion seems to me a bit "Multinational financial thinking". Our whole factory worth approximate $2million so we have to take small stable steps and a hsm machine is something which We can not mantain on either the programming side and on the work providing side as well. Our workshop is focusing on small series, typically 4+ setups per day on each machine, another thing is rigidity which typically decreasing when the applicable feedrates are increasing.. High feed milling is just making its way in to Our shop at these years and in some cases comes werry handy but it is not the bast way in all of Our machining need. anyway this is really not related to this topic and one word leads to another thousands, It is a very complicated question to chose which type machine to buy and it is always case specific so I would not like to dig in deeper in this topic.

Next to these things I must say an okuma from 2005 with an okuma control is one of the most sophisticated and versatile construction on the market and it can handle HSM strategies with very impressive result, so I encourage everyone having similar equipment to try out HSM.
My opininon is that Okuma Axis control equipment > Bridgeport fanuc haas (experienced from first hand in Our own family factory since 1990 and growing in this very day which You can check out at Ungvári M?hely)

Thanks again for the the informations!

[Algirdas]

:-) Baltic states stepped the same path a decade ago.
I would like to comment like this:
Okuma makes you free to concentrate on production. You work on improving your product quality and raising your company's competence with Okuma.

[tea hole]

I suppose I will reply by saying this:
My point was to not question your economic position, but to point out that if you are buying, and you are buying Okuma, buying one that wasn't built in the 90's to compete with 2 year old equipment may be best for you.
I think, for many reasons, if I were you and in your position (as I understood it before), with the information about the machine in question, as a die hard Okuma lover, I would NOT buy (nor attempt) the above mentioned HSM on the above machine machine. Instead I would save more money to buy something closer to new.
An MCV 4020 for example.
I think if you are looking to implement HSM into your manufacturing, on even a percentage of it, you would be best served having something that was built after HSM was invented. (relatively)
Something with at least an E100 (next series of control), or a P200 control (i'd skip a P100).
I was thinking of this as an investment, multinational or not, facts are facts.
If I personally am staking my livelihood on a machine with the intent of utilizing HSM to its fullest, and damaging the machine is even a remote concern, then I am buying something better than an ES V4020. It'd still be an Okuma, just not that one.
Rigidity and reliability is what you will not get in an ES machine vs an MC, MB or MA machine.
I could give explanations as to why, but it sounds like you don't want them and that i've mistaken your question as one of weather to buy rather than how to utilize.
As I re-read your post, I think you were more asking what you can do with the above mentioned machine with regards to HSM.
I apologize for mis interpreting your questions.

As a different answer with a different take on your question:
There is probably some fine tuning somewhere that can be done to make something minimally better, but, Okuma is not like your other machines, where the controller is made by someone and the machine is made by someone and they bolt the two together and then figure out how to make one work with the other. Okuma makes the Iron, the plastic, everything in between and bolts them together. Therefore, there is no reason to fine tune things since everything was designed to be used together. No "Square block, round hole" effect.

As well, "Hi-cut" will only affect the actual geometry of the part, as in, alter acc and dec to allow a tolerance along a path so at a feedrate the machine doesn't blow by a directional change and cause out of round holes or bad parts from excessive feed. It will not help with preventing machine damage as the machine is designed not to damage itself.

[underthetire]

All I'll say is, you can't compare a no name Taiwan machine with a Fanuc to a name brand Japanese machine, be it okuma or something with a Fanuc on it.

Sent from my G-Tab Quantum using Tapatalk

[cad01]

If your machine has Hi-Cut use the following code:
G187 F_ E_
G187 = turns Hi-Cut ON
F = the maximum acceleration feed, not the programmed feed. Generally about 120% of programmed feed. However, this will limit the maximum manual override switch to 120%
E = the desired machine tolerance. If you are roughing, leaving stock you can open the machine tolerance up to round the corners faster causing it to violate/cut corners. Generally I would set this to 40% of the remaining stock. For a finishing pass you want this tighter depending on the print tolerances to ensure it does not violate/cut corners.
G186 = Turns Hi-Cut OFF

You can find this information in the Special Functions Manual along with the Hi2-NC Function (now called Super-Nurbs) if you have that option there are more variables available in the same command line.