[diyengineer]

So stepped back and analyzed what i really needed vs wanted. In actuality something like a Tormach 1100 was the perfect size, and boasts great features. While I've seen many small one man shops use one to knock out small runs of parts successfully for kick starter campaigns, and other small product lines successfully, I began to search a bit for something of that same size. I remembered that i walk past a nice SouthWestern Industries Prototrak machine at work almost every day. It's 3 axis and has a Kurt drawbar. Its built like a tank, and is a pretty decent size. I hopped on ebay and found they range from 8-15K depending on condition and how they are setup. Not familiar with the brand at all. They are priced fairly close to the Tormach price used, and are very heavy duty. I've found online a floppy to USB converter for them also. I see the southwestern mills have either a DPM or TRM, along with a couple different types of controllers such as Mx3e, AGE3, and SMX.

Not sure the difference between all of these. Which one should i be hunting for online, and which to avoid? I really like what Tormach has going on (and would be proud to own one), but would like to invest in something a little more heavy duty.

Thanks everyone,

DiyE

TRM:
Prototrak CNC Milling Machine TRM Trak Nice Shape Bed Video | eBay

DPM:
SWI Southwestern 50" MX3E Trak DPM Cat 40 CNC Knee Mill Prototrak Tool Holders | eBay

[diyengineer]

From delivery to machining and support I think tormach would be much quicker. I would fear wearing the machine out though in production runs, or using it 8 hours a day, 7 days a week..

[Steve Seebold]

I have a PCNC 1100 Series II that I purchased in July 2011 and I run the heck out of it. I run it anywhere from 6 to 16 hours per day, depending on my work load. I used to own a real CNC shop where I had a FADAL 3016 and a Haas TM1, and I gotta tell you, my Tormach will do anything either of those machines would do. It just takes a little longer. My FADAL had 22 horsepower, the Haas had 7.5 and my Tormach has 1.5.

The Southwestern Industries machines are good machines, but for the price of theirs, you can have 2 Tormachs, and for the price of a Haas VF1, you can have 3 Tormachs.

When I bought my machine, I got it with PDB, monitor, control computer, jog handle, foot pedal, deluxe stand, 4 each 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 and 1/2 inch set screw tool holders. I also got 6 each ER 16 and 6 ER 20 collet holders, and I only spent $14,153.00. I ordered it on Wednesday and it was delivered the next day.

Yes, the Southwester Industries machines are bigger, bit I don't do work that size any more. Actually, if I can't hold a dozen parts in one hand, then they're too big for my shop. I work in my garage, so my shop rate is only $40.00 per hour.

I call myself Mid Day Machining because I seldom start before 11:00 AM and I finish up any time between 3:00 and 11:00 PM. Sometimes it just depends on what's on TV that night, ot whay mi wife is doing.

[diyengineer]

Thanks for the amazing input Steve. Do you think the auto tool hangs carousel is worth the investment, or do you end up changing tools by hand anyways since it may not hold enough?

[Steve Seebold]

Thanks for the amazing input Steve. Do you think the auto tool hangs carousel is worth the investment, or do you end up changing tools by hand anyways since it may not hold enough?

The tool changer came along about two months after I got my machine. I'll have to say, the tool changer would be nice to have, but at the time I figured for $4,200.00 I can change the tool a whole lot of times by hand.

Now that I have my machine, do I miss having a tool changer? Not really. Could I get more work done if I had the tool changer? Probably. Would I spend $4,200 to add the tool changer now? No.

I guess I would have to say, whether or not you get the tool changer just depends on what kind of work you plan on doing. A lot of what I do requires only one or two tools. I have a couple of jobs that require more, but for those I just tough it out and stay right by the machine.

I have a 46 inch TV next to my machine that serves three purposed. It keeps me entertained, and it makes some noise in the shop (I hate quiet) it serves as my computer monitor and I live in an area where there is a homeowners association so the big TV blocks the front of my garage so you can't see in the garage when the door is open.

I was approached by the HOA once and told them it's not a business, it's a hobby and they can't stop me from pursuing my hobby. My hobby is gasoline powered remote control race boats. The day the HOA representative stopped by, I had 9 boats under construction in the garage. Now I have 10.

I make all the running gear on the back of the boat. The only thing I don't make is the propellor.

Sometimes I get burned out on the hobby stuff and I'll go find some job shop work, then I'll come back to my hobby stuff.

I've included a picture of one of my boats so you can see what I do. The hull is 45 inches long, runs on a modifies weed whacker engine and has a top speed of a little over 62 MPH.

[UniqueMachining]

diyengineer

If you are looking for something a little bigger than the 1100, may I suggest checking out the "Novakon Torus Pro". It offers a larger work envelope, greater rigidity, 6000 RPM 2 HP spindle and is available in stepper or servo versions. The available power draw bar handles both R8 and Quick Change {aka TTS} tooling. They are also offering a new stand which features sloped drainage, double filtration and 2- 90 watts pumps {one dedicated for a wash down sprayer}. Very happy with mine.

John

[Steve Seebold]

Before you consider the Novakon, check out their warranty, technical support and their parts availability. I have heard absolute horror stories about people who have bought a Novakon. When there was a problem, parts had to be brought in from somewhere else which took weeks, and there was virtually no technical support. No one ever discussed warranty.

With the Tormach, you can call any time between 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM Wisconsin time and get tech support, parts or their sales department.

I had an issue about 4 months after I bought my machine. I broke 3 of the spring washers on the power draw bar. I called and talked to Andy and he told me I was still covered by the warranty so they woyld send me the new washers at no charge. I told him to send me 2 spare SETS of washers. It was going to take a couple of days for them to get here so I had a couple of days off. When the washers arrived, there were 2 washers in the box, not 2 sets. I contacted Andy right away, and he sent me 2 sets, UPS Next Day, Saturday Delivery.

It turned out that weekend was the open house at Little Machine Shop so I took the weekend off anyway.

I have nothing but good things to say about my Tormach PCNC 1100. It will do anything you can do on a FADAL, Haas, Mazak or even a Mori Sieki. It just takes a little longer, and the best part is, "IT DIDN'T COST $100,000.00 OR EVEN $75,000.00". I have $14,153.00 invested in my Tormach. I didn't PAY $14,153.00 for my Tormach, I INVESTED $14,153.00 in it.

[diyengineer]

Without starting a machine debate I believe if it works for you, that's great. I've seen a lot of junk machines work wonderfully and a lot of expensive machines work horrible. Seems like machinery always has it's own demons, and you may get a good or bad one regardless of brand. I personally prefer the tormach from what I've seen, heard, and how dang innovative they are in regards to accessories etc. I think novakon will only improve and get better. That means lower prices, and more competition and innovation in the marketplace which in turn will help us all!

Before I take the plunge on a tormach I'd like to sell my other machines first.

[UniqueMachining]

diyengineer

Before making any major purchase I would certainly check out the vendors satisfaction level. The forums here "Tormach" and "Novakon" would be a great place to start. Good hunting.
John

[diyengineer]

Thanks john!!

[diyengineer]

Steve is the stand a must have what function does it serve other than holding the machine up? Does it have a coolant sump?

[Steve Seebold]

I would call the Deluxe Stand a requirement in the PCNC 1100. It comes with a coolant tank and a so-so delivery system. It also serves as a trough to catch the coolant that runs off the table. It's about a $1,500.00 option, but you will find in fairly short order that it was money well spent.

[diyengineer]

So the coolant tank does it come with pump or do you buy that separate ?

[Steve Seebold]

The coolant tank and the pump are standard with the Deluxe Stand.

[diyengineer]

Did you jump on the 4th axis?

[Steve Seebold]

Did you jump on the 4th axis?

I passed on the 4th axis. I don't do that kind of work.

[diyengineer]

I currently don't have a need for it, but the price is attractive if something comes up.