[Potatohead908]

Hi all. So I am preparing to convert a G0704 mill to CNC. I don't have any machining or CNC experience so this will be an adventure! I have lots of questions and this is more of a blanket post. I am trying to understand more about what all I will need to get started. I already purchased the 3 axis electronics package from Keling that Hoss recommended. My plan is to buy all the tooling, raw material and software/electronics I will need to do the conversion before I buy the machine. That way when the mill comes in I hope to be ready to get started. I will be buying Hoss’s DVD here shortly and am not asking for information contained within it. He has a list of all the end mills, taps and other misc. items that will be needed for the conversion on one of his web pages. So with that being where I’m at right now. Here are my questions for now.

What is the best setup for tool holding? I have seen a few post’s regarding TTS collet type tool holding. I do plan on doing a PDB if that makes a difference.

I have Autodesk Inventor 2014 and InventorCam. I plan on buying Mach3 too. I have a PC that I never use that runs Vista Home premium and I went to the ArtSoft forum and looks like this will work with a patch. Will I need anything else for now?

What is the preferred setup for the limit switches and homing switches? The limit switches can be used as the homing switches from what I have gathered. Is that correct and is there a better cost effective way?

Any other insight's you would like to provide to a beginner would be great too!

Thank you for any help and input!

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Doesn't help with your questions, but if you're using Inventor, take a look at HSMXpress for Inventor. It is a really first-rate 2D CAM and it's free. Youll find links to it on the Autodesk website.

Regards,
Ray L.

[dracozny]

I may be covering some of what Hoss is already going to tell you in the dvd but:
as far as tooling goes check out LMS for their starter package, that will at least get you in the door to make chips. obviously you are going to need some dial indicators and such as well. magnetic base and a collet indicator holder will come in handy for those. optionally a coaxial indicator can take place of the collet indicator holder. if you do not have access to a lathe I would recommend a 2-3" boring head which will help you building some parts for the conversion. HSS and Cobalt end mills will be very useful for you starting out since you are new to machining in general. carbide gets very expensive when you screw up. cheap end mills are cheap for a reason. they are fine starting out, but eventually you will want to buy better quality.

back to collets: I believe the g0704 like many other mills comes with an r8 spindle. most of the time this is fine. an r8 collet and/or r8 tool holder set is going to be the most stable with that spindle. However there will be times you want to get a little more reach on your part, this is where you have to decide if you want to use er16-32 collet sets or just get a longer end mill. in most cases the collet set will get you where you need to be, but there are times where cutting slower with a longer end mill is going to be your best option as well. starting out however the r8 collets should get the job done.

hope that helps.

[Potatohead908]

Thank you! Those are the tips I was hoping for. Had no idea they made longer End mills and had not thought that the er collets would give you much length. I do have an indicator set, clamping set and some micrometers. I have on my tool list a 2" face mill, coaxial indicator and a boring head. I didn't know that I could bore up to 3" with one on this mill. I will have to look into a collet indicator holder or how to use the coaxial indicator. This will be to get my tool offset's and heights correct?

Thank you very much for your input!

[Potatohead908]

Ray,

I'm sorry I missed your post. I will look into the HSMXpress for Inventor. I have been stumbling through how to use Inventor for a little bit now. I'm not an engineer or that great at math but I've been able to dink with it a bit, one heck of a lot of trial and ERROR. Plenty of tutorials online for it though. Thank you for your reply!

[hoss2006]

TTS is very common and necessary if you plan on doing the pdb.
You can get a starter package for not too much money.
Starter Set, Manual, Tormach Quick Change - LittleMachineShop.com
There are several knockoff TTS ER toolholders in different sizes to be found on ebay, Darkon are a little nicer but many have good things to say about the ones from china too.
For home/limits I prefer to use basically one NC switch per axis wired in series to act as both home and limits for each end of travel, less switches, less wiring, less to go wrong.
Projects
Good luck and have fun.
Hoss

[wizard]

You have already gotten some excellent answers but there is a blizzard going on outside so I might as well spend some more time offering my perspective.

Hi all. So I am preparing to convert a G0704 mill to CNC. I don't have any machining or CNC experience so this will be an adventure! I have lots of questions and this is more of a blanket post. I am trying to understand more about what all I will need to get started.

Lots of stuff. If you are tool poor right now even more stuff. Plan on spending as much, if not more that the cost of your mill. However realize that much of what you will need, depends upon how you expect to use the mill. If you haven't nailed that down you might want to go slow with hardware/tool purchases. Eventually you will build up your shop to the point that you don't need to be buying tools at every turn. Realize the difference between need and want here.

I already purchased the 3 axis electronics package from Keling that Hoss recommended. My plan is to buy all the tooling, raw material and software/electronics I will need to do the conversion before I buy the machine.

Personally I wouldn't do that. With no experience at all I would spend a few months getting use to manual use of a milling machine. I know many will argue over this point so I will leave it as a personal perspective.

That way when the mill comes in I hope to be ready to get started. I will be buying Hoss’s DVD here shortly and am not asking for information contained within it. He has a list of all the end mills, taps and other misc. items that will be needed for the conversion on one of his web pages. So with that being where I’m at right now. Here are my questions for now.

I'm not familiar with that specific list but basic tooling is well known. The trick when starting out is knowing when to invest in quality tooling and when to buy the cheaper stuff. Since I've been burned a few times using the cheap stuff I'm going to suggest buying quality for the following: A good combination square set, a 0-1" micrometer, a good caliper (probably 6") and a good quality dial indicator.

If you are an old fart like me invest in squares and calipers with high contrast engravings or in the case of a caliper go digital. Same thing for the micrometer, opt for easy to read or go digital. There is nothing worst than having to reach for a magnifier to read something that was perfectly readable a decade ago.

What is the best setup for tool holding? I have seen a few post’s regarding TTS collet type tool holding. I do plan on doing a PDB if that makes a difference.

TTS is a solution for an existing R8 spindle. That is about all I can say about it. If you have the option a standard taper for a CNC machine would be better. However options are limited in machines this size. As such TTS is better than nothing. In any event like the other suggestions I would invest in TTS until you have an actual working PDB.

I have Autodesk Inventor 2014 and InventorCam. I plan on buying Mach3 too. I have a PC that I never use that runs Vista Home premium and I went to the ArtSoft forum and looks like this will work with a patch. Will I need anything else for now?

Smooth stepper maybe. Running realtime on PC based hardware is trying at times. If you have the right PC hardware it can be wonderful, with the wrong PC it can be hell. To that end you want to keep your eye on all of the alternative out there that address the PC issue. LinuxCNC for example is coming up on alternative hardware such as RaspberryPI, and BEagleBoard. There is KFlop which is very interesting in my mind. On top of all of that there has been a mini explosion lately of G-Code interpreters running on micro controllers. In other words there are lots of options that frankly where not viable even two years ago.

What is the preferred setup for the limit switches and homing switches? The limit switches can be used as the homing switches from what I have gathered. Is that correct and is there a better cost effective way?

You can do that, that is use the axis limit switches for homing. I'm not a big fan of that approach but it does save money. One the other hand it is probably more important to spend money on higher quality switches that are sealed or at least don't have exposed wiring. Depending upon how you use the machine chips and coolant can play hell with axis limit switches. So in a nut shell it is better to spend good money on quality switches or a way to protect cheaper switches from shorts.

Any other insight's you would like to provide to a beginner would be great too!

Thank you for any help and input!

You probably have heard it before but the cost of the castiron, that is the base machine, is only a small part of getting up and running. Unless you are blessed with a fat bank account this means you have to engage in strategic buying. In part this means knowing what you expect to do with the machine.

As far as tools go I might add the following:

You will likely need a small bench grinder or 1" wide belt sander for deburring. This unit would also come in handy for sharpening HSS tooling as used in fly cutters and such. Craigslist, and other avenues for used hardware can set you up fine here.

When buying cutting tooling it has already been pointed out that quality does make a difference. However it is inevitable that you as a beginner will damage some of those cutters. As such buy reasonable quality suitable for learning. The exception here might be drill bits where a better quality set is justified up front. In my mind it is harder to damage a drill bit that it is an end mill. Plus it is reasonable to expect that you will sharpen drill bits yourself. Beyond that you can't go out and buy a bunch of cutters without knowing how you expect to use that mill. I guy doing engravings needs a different set if tools than a guy doing model engines or a guy machining control panels. So take advice here with a grain of salt, until you define up your interests most of us can't help you with cutter selection.

If you have no tools at all little things can add up fast. We are talking things like hammers, wrenches, files Allen keys screwdrivers and the like. These aren't machinist tools per say but it is hard to get by without a reasonable selection. By the way you will need a decent bench and vise.

CNC by its nature is messy, if you get into it you will want a fully enclosed machine. This is an additional conversion expense but flying coolant and swarf can really put a damper on your enjoyment of the process. Not to mention is the fact that such enclosed machines are notably safer to use. Again this gets into specifics about how you intend to use the machine but one thing a CNC does well is throw chips and coolant around.

[sdubfid]

I have a complete ac servo setup and ballscrews/extended y axis that I used hoss plans for. I will sell the electronics and ballscrews if you are interested. Also have stuff for power drawbar extended head mod etc.

[Fastest1]

I am with Wizard on a few of his points.

If new, no need to buy a bunch of stock just yet. Try MDF or some other forgiving materials to familiarize yourself with the machine.

Regarding the TTS, it is a simple and effective toolholder system. As you can see Hoss takes cuts nobody else is likely to use in actuality, with no slippage. Though the PDB would be or is nice. The simple MAD he offered is equally effective at conveniently changing tools. Great til the PDB for sure.

[Potatohead908]

WOW! Great information and thank you all very much! I just now ordered Hoss's DVD. I have LOTS of hand tools and power tools. I have a floor standing drill press and just bought an XY table for it. I have a drill doctor as well. For Christmas I bought myself the XY table, indicator set with magnetic base, and a clamping kit. I reload ammo and have a couple sets of calipers but no micrometers (been wanting one for a bit but hadn't bought one yet). The MDF and investing in good drill bits makes sense. I know tooling will get expensive. I have given myself 4 grand to start with which will include the Mill. I am selling my dirt bike to fund this plus added a little cash. My plan is to do Hoss's Phase two conversion. I have some idea's for hand tools that I want to build that are not available now. They are for the industry that I have worked in for 23+ years now and have never seen. I feel there is real promise to them and IF all goes well I will be able to fund more MACHINERY!!

[Fastest1]

Cool, it will be fun to say "I remember when he was just starting out!" Keep us posted. Not sure about selling the dirt bike though ;-) Btw you can get scrap MDF around at cabinet shops, house construction job sites/dumpsters, maybe even the cut offs under the panel saw at your local Home Depot/Lowes or what ever. All they can say is no.

[Potatohead908]

The bike just sit's in my garage though. I just don't ride it any more and figure if I pursue this to the Nth degree I can buy another later if I wanted to. Or build an awd buggy with a Hayabusa engine in it :-)

[Fastest1]

I understand. I have got an old YZF426 in the garage, big bore, Falicon crank, Rekluse clutch more goodies than I can part with.

[wizard]

WOW! Great information and thank you all very much! I just now ordered Hoss's DVD. I have LOTS of hand tools and power tools.

That is a very good thing!

I have a floor standing drill press and just bought an XY table for it. I have a drill doctor as well. For Christmas I bought myself the XY table, indicator set with magnetic base, and a clamping kit. I reload ammo and have a couple sets of calipers but no micrometers (been wanting one for a bit but hadn't bought one yet).

You are far better off than many that start out and you probably can imagine the hit to the budget if you purchased this stuff all at once. When it comes to the micrometer this is one place I wouldn't mess around, invest in the better quality makes. In a home shop your micrometer will likely be the most accurate measuring device you will have and as such a reference for other devices.

The MDF and investing in good drill bits makes sense.

Even commercial shops will make use of machinable wax, wood composites or other low cost materials to reduce the risk if a bit of new code hasn't been proven. Screw ups in steel can cost you both in tooling and materials. It isn't unreasonable at all to use cheaper materials when learning to code your CNC machine.

You do need to make sure your feed rates and depth of cuts are proper for the material at hand as you switch back and forth.

I know tooling will get expensive. I have given myself 4 grand to start with which will include the Mill. I am selling my dirt bike to fund this plus added a little cash.

Say it ain't so! Of course then again many dirt bikes are pretty beat up.

As for that expensive tooling and hardware the trick is to make sure you need it immediately. If not put off buying. A common example here is a milling machine vise, some users will never make use of such a vise while others will never remove it from the machine.

My plan is to do Hoss's Phase two conversion. I have some idea's for hand tools that I want to build that are not available now. They are for the industry that I have worked in for 23+ years now and have never seen. I feel there is real promise to them and IF all goes well I will be able to fund more MACHINERY!!

If you are considering starting a business you might also want to consider contracting some prototype work out. If nothing else you can get an idea as to feasibility and costs.

[Fastest1]

Though I like to support local if there is one, Ebay is an excellent resource for tooling and stock materials.

This morning I ordered a piece of 6061 @ 1.25 x 4 x 10, $23.67 to my door. I bet it is here before Thursday, most likely Wednesday. Not bad and I dont have to store the other 7'2" (or pay for it). I just needed to build 1 stepper and gear drive housing.