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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    1354

    PowerMill from Delcam

    Does anybody here have any experience with this software? I attended a sales seminar yesterday, and it just blew me away. I'm ready to throw my Worknc away and convert!

    Any opinions/comments would be appreciated before we make the conversion.

    Thanks,

    Dan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    779
    PowerMill and PowerShape won the year long benchmark that I held at my company. We have been using PowerMill for a few years now. We have it very automated using Visual Basic programs. I gave the shop some basic lessons on VB and one guy really took off with it. He created a program that he calls 'Cruncher' This program brings up a screen that you fill out like where the 3d model is, what roughing tool to use, what pre finishing tool and what finish tool. The program will crunch all the tool path that is needed to build the part automaticly. There is a batch function that can do many different models and crunch them one by one.

    It is so easy to use the shop floor people can run their own jobs if the programmer is not here or is busy.
    Thanks

    Jeff Davis (HomeCNC)
    http://www.homecnc.info


    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  3. #3
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    Apr 2003
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    Hi HomeCNC,

    I'm a big fan of vbscript and VB customizing, so this sounds right up my alley.

    Thanks for the insight,

    Dan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    459

    DelCam is the best I have seen

    DelCam is the best CAM system that I have seen when it comes to HSM routines. They have really done an unsurpased job of building toolpaths with smooth motion lead in's and out's. I have not seen anyone else do the Knowledge Of Stock remaining (KOS) as well either. The resulting finishes in the finished product are far better than any other system out there.

    PowerShape and PowerMill are both excelant products, and you should consider using both. PowerMill is not made for designing...
    The Cad side is not that expensive though. Using a hybrid 3D modeler is much better than using solids only. Being able to create surfaces mixed with solids is a huge benefit. The Cam is a bit pricy, but you really get what you pay for on these products. The automation capabilities are better than anyone else!

    Although I am not yet a user, we are in the middle of the justification process ourselves... This is a product speciallizing in model machining and 5 axis stuff. I don't think it does turning for instance, but I don't know...

    Good choice...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    1354
    Hi Scott_Bob,

    We are interested in it mainly for it's 5-axis capabilities, but after spending 4 hours watching what it can do yesterday, I'm convinced that it would out surpass Worknc for 3-axis programming too.

    As for PowerShape, I'm not too interested in looking at that product. We are heavily into Rhino, and having tremendous success with it.

    Thanks for the feedback,

    Dan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    24
    Originally posted by Dan B
    Hi Scott_Bob,

    We are interested in it mainly for it's 5-axis capabilities, but after spending 4 hours watching what it can do yesterday, I'm convinced that it would out surpass Worknc for 3-axis programming too.

    As for PowerShape, I'm not too interested in looking at that product. We are heavily into Rhino, and having tremendous success with it.

    Thanks for the feedback,

    Dan
    If you think Rhino is good. You really ought to look at PowerShape.

  7. #7
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    Apr 2003
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    1354
    Hi Steve,

    Do you know the approximate cost of PowerShape?

    Thanks,

    Dan

  8. #8
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    Jul 2003
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    24
    Originally posted by Dan B
    Hi Steve,

    Do you know the approximate cost of PowerShape?

    Thanks,

    Dan
    It varies with the options available(and there are lots of them). the package you buy. If you buy PowerShape along with PowerMill I belive it's a $2K discount. You can also deal with your VAR a bit, especially if you buy PowerMill. Since we all know PowerMill ain't cheap

    IIRC PowerShape cost us $3K or $4K. But don't quote me on that. I use PowerShape ever day for mold design, which it excels at.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2003
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    Thanks Steve.

    Dan

  10. #10
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    Jul 2003
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    Originally posted by Dan B
    Thanks Steve.

    Dan
    Do you have any models that you've had trouble at all with using rhino? Or something you wish rhino did? I have pretty extensive experience with PowerShape, and could show you what it can do.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    40
    Dan,
    I have both, PowerMill and PowerShape. Power´Mill is a very good product if you are machining molds,tools etc with complex surfaces. It has very good roughing routines,rest milling and very wide choice of finishing methods and so on but "simple" things like drilling tapping are, IMO, not so simple.
    And what comes to Powershape, I would not be so glad to recommend it. It does quite well with surfaces but with solids it is very glumsy (or akward ?)(at least if you compare it to Cadkey, and you know what that can tell.. ) And in spite of its "intelligent cursor-system" in have found it rather uncertain whith placeing,mirroring, copying geometry. also I don´t like the "workplane"system. ( perhaps an old dog-symptom )
    And if you are thinking of their "PS forMouldmaker" products, be sure that it is tested or represented with your OWN, complex models, not with those what the salesman brings with him ( /her ) ! At that point I was fooled.
    Anyway, Powershape, shame to admit, is quite useless for me, I only use it if if I want to change or repair the modell while i`m making toolpaths with PowerMill. (You can select some surfaces or whole modell,start PS,make the changes you want and return to PM with changed modell, and this is almost the only thing I like in PowerShape)

    Osmo P
    Caution for growing spindels

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    24
    Originally posted by Oopee
    Dan,
    I have both, PowerMill and PowerShape. Power´Mill is a very good product if you are machining molds,tools etc with complex surfaces. It has very good roughing routines,rest milling and very wide choice of finishing methods and so on but "simple" things like drilling tapping are, IMO, not so simple.


    Yes, I will agree, that the purely 2D function in PowerMill are clumbsy at best. That was my main complaint of PowerMill. But, if you do an entire design in PowerShape, export it to PowerMill, it will automatically create the features and/or toolpaths for doing drilling, tapping, etc...

    And what comes to Powershape, I would not be so glad to recommend it. It does quite well with surfaces but with solids it is very glumsy (or akward ?)(at least if you compare it to Cadkey, and you know what that can tell.. ) And in spite of its "intelligent cursor-system" in have found it rather uncertain whith placeing,mirroring, copying geometry. also I don´t like the "workplane"system. ( perhaps an old dog-symptom )
    I find the cursor to be invaluable. It takes some time getting used to it, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Cadkey's on the otherhand is useless on large models. Just hangs there... even on a 2.8GHZ P4 with 2 gig of ram, and an Nvidia Quadro card.

    I'm sure your problem with the 'workplane' system is an 'old dog' syndrom It's proven invaluable to me however. When importing a customer's model into powershape I never once have to move the 'model' 0. I just create a proper workplane. It's also quite helpful when things are made in 'vehicle space' when working on automotive parts and such. You can have it automagically align a workplane normal to a planar surface extremely easy.

    And if you are thinking of their "PS forMouldmaker" products, be sure that it is tested or represented with your OWN, complex models, not with those what the salesman brings with him ( /her ) ! At that point I was fooled.
    I don't use the actual 'PSMouldmaker' product. since most of our mold bases are custom, not off the shelf And will PowerShape split every mold core/cavity perfectly using solids? Nope... Nothing I know of will on EVERY single part out there. But I can still create an entire mold design in a fraction of the time my competitors do.


    Anyway, Powershape, shame to admit, is quite useless for me, I only use it if if I want to change or repair the modell while i`m making toolpaths with PowerMill. (You can select some surfaces or whole modell,start PS,make the changes you want and return to PM with changed modell, and this is almost the only thing I like in PowerShape)

    Osmo P

  13. #13
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    Apr 2003
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    1354
    Hi Steve,

    Do you have any models that you've had trouble at all with using rhino?
    No. Rhino does everything we need it to do. It doesn't do shelling, but that is a feature we wouldn't need even if it could.

    Or something you wish rhino did?
    Whenever I find something that I wish Rhino did, I use VbScript or VB to create commands for it. I currently have over 80 custom commands and a dozen VB programs. They range from simple surface to surface deviation commands to complex 5-axis drilling programs.

    Another, not so small factor, is that we have 12 seats of Rhino. To change direction would be a costly move.

    Thanks, Osmo, for your comment's too.

    Dan

  14. #14
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    Apr 2003
    Posts
    40
    Originally posted by Steve Mack
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    entire design in PowerShape, export it to PowerMill, it will automatically create the features and/or toolpaths for doing drilling, tapping, etc...
    --------------------------------------------------------------


    Well, 2D would certainly be a little easier for me if I did the design in PowerShape....


    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    .... Cadkey's on the otherhand is useless on large models. Just hangs there...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Not so often any more, I can work almost whole day without hangs or crashes....



    _______________________________________________

    I'm sure your problem with the 'workplane' system is an 'old dog' syndrom
    ________________________________________________

    I must agree



    ______________________________________________

    .... But I can still create an entire mold design in a fraction of the time my competitors do.
    ________________________________
    That´s


    I forgot to say that I very much like the zooming ,panning and rotating functions in both PS and PM, they are far more better what Cadkey offers.

    Dan,
    PowerMill imports IGES wery well and I know that Rhino has very good export capabilities so you wouldn´t have any problems if you´d decide not to take Powershape at all. Delcam also offers translators for other formats too, but they are rather expencive.
    I haven´t had so much trobles with this thing, although I use Workshop-exports
    Also, I´ve thought that if the Cadkey/Kubotek business makes me unable to use Workshop some day, I´ll be seriously looking at Rhino..

    Osmo P

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1354
    Hi Osmo,

    PowerMill 5.0 now imports Rhino data directly.

    Before we make the jump to PowerMill, I'm having the Worknc people come in and "re-sell" their product to us. Once I see what Worknc has for new 5-axis features coming in January, I will be in a better position to justify the move to PowerMill (or maybe not, we shall see). It's a critical time right now because our annual Worknc maintainence fees are due this month. If Worknc's new features are not where I expect them to be, we are going to terminate our payments (at $5500 a year, it's a big deal!)

    Dan

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    40
    Originally posted by Dan B
    Hi Osmo,

    PowerMill 5.0 now imports Rhino data directly.

    HI,
    I didn´t know that. I haven´t read the "Whatsnews" yet and I haven´t PM 5 yet either, (unpaid maintenece ) but I´ll have it quite soon.

    Worknc maintainence fees
    This is not too cheap with Powermill either , €1000+ a year for me (1 seat)

    Good luck, what ever you decide,

    Osmo P

    (See I learned that quoting... )
    (...but maybe not spelling)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    779
    Before we make the jump to PowerMill, I'm having the Worknc people come in and "re-sell" their product to us.
    Alright! a BENCHMARK! I do them all the time.

    (at $5500 a year, it's a big deal!)
    You know our DelCam yearly maint is $45,000 but that is small potatos to our PTC maintenance. It's $120,000 per year.
    Thanks

    Jeff Davis (HomeCNC)
    http://www.homecnc.info


    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    37
    Hi Dan

    I cant be quiet on this one!
    I have ran Delcam products (DUCT), before PowerMill & PowerShape were born.

    I can say this, "You will not find a more simple to use, yet powerful CAM software"

    PowerShape can fix all kinds of part designer slop, fast!

    In real world terms (no lead time before steel is on the Machine) Before Powermill, two spindles was the max I could keep running on complex Injection Molds.
    With PowerMill, I could keep six to eight spindles live. (depending on the quality of the model)

    I have wrote exstensive automation using PowerMill & VB
    Electrodes, including design(full model), burn documentation(word docs) & G-code program = 15 minutes average

    If I could just get a hold of some of that "ArtCam" software!

    Regards
    Bill

  19. #19
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    Apr 2003
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    1354
    Thanks for the comments, Bill. We have decided to purchase PowerMill. Maybe we can twist some arms and get a PowerMill forum added to this site. I'm sure I will need to pick some brains in the beginning!

    Dan

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    24

    Originally posted by Dan B
    Thanks for the comments, Bill. We have decided to purchase PowerMill. Maybe we can twist some arms and get a PowerMill forum added to this site. I'm sure I will need to pick some brains in the beginning!

    Dan

    Congrats!! You will definately *NOT* regret that purchase. And the PowerMill forum would be a welcome addition IMHO. But hey, I'm biased

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