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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > South Bend Machinery > Grizzly G0602 vs Southbend SB1001
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  1. #1
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    Grizzly G0602 vs Southbend SB1001

    Hello,
    I’m not new to metalworking, but due to a recent employment change, I no longer have access to the tool room and would like to have a shop in my basement. I already have a mill and I now need a lathe. It seems that a number of members here use the Grizzly G0602 lathe, and this lathe is exactly what I’m looking for size-wise. I’m trying to decide between the Grizzly G0602 and the Southbend SB1001. The Southbend is twice the price for a very similar lathe. Reading through the online manual, I find that the Southbend seems more refined, for example the leadscrew adjustments are more than just a simple locknut. The other advantage is that the hole through spindle on the Southbend is 1-1/8” (vs 1” on the Grizzly), on the other hand the hole through the Southbend 3 jaw chuck is only 0.8” anyway. I would also prefer the D1-3 spindle nose on the Southbend, but I’m not sure if this justifies the $1000+ cost difference. If anyone has an opinion on how the tho lathes compare, I would be very much interested. Also, please let me know if the hole in the 3 jaw chuck on the Grizzly is smaller than 1”.
    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Feb 2007
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    592

    Arrow

    You should be comparing the G9972Z.

    The G0602 is a stripped down machine that gives a better option to the may 9x20 units out there. The 9x20's are very limited in rigidity such that many thing the Harbour Freight 8" lathe to be superior.

    The G0602 uses thread leads for its longitudinal feed and has only hand feed for the cross slide.

    The G9972Z does have a feed gearbox while sharing the same spindle speeds and sizes.

    I do not know if the G9972Z actually has a longer bed / more travel but it is labelled as a 26"

    On the flip side - the SB1001 is a small machine - What really jumps out at me is the 282 lbs gross shipping weight. The G0602 lists 453lbs and the G9972Z weighs in at 559

    I would go back and take a good look at the G9972Z

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by abec1971 View Post
    Hello,
    I’m not new to metalworking, but due to a recent employment change, I no longer have access to the tool room and would like to have a shop in my basement. I already have a mill and I now need a lathe. It seems that a number of members here use the Grizzly G0602 lathe, and this lathe is exactly what I’m looking for size-wise. I’m trying to decide between the Grizzly G0602 and the Southbend SB1001.
    If the 602 is what you want size wise why are you looking at the SouthBend? The SouthBend certainly has some very good features but it is a substantially smaller lathe. On the other hand the SouthBend would be excellent for a small CNC machine due to a better chuck mounting arrangement.
    The Southbend is twice the price for a very similar lathe.
    Read the catalog again,they are far from similar.
    Reading through the online manual, I find that the Southbend seems more refined, for example the leadscrew adjustments are more than just a simple locknut. The other advantage is that the hole through spindle on the Southbend is 1-1/8” (vs 1” on the Grizzly), on the other hand the hole through the Southbend 3 jaw chuck is only 0.8” anyway. I would also prefer the D1-3 spindle nose on the Southbend, but I’m not sure if this justifies the $1000+ cost difference.
    A "D" series spindle will be more expensive buy default. The whole reason for screw on spindle noses is that they are cheap to make. Still I'm not sure if that is the whole reason for the price delta.

    As to the SouthBend I did see one at the Grizzly store about 9 months ago. I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it because I was there for other things. However a quick glance does leave you with the impression that a lot more effort goes into this machine. It would be nice to get some input from somebody that has purchased one recently.
    If anyone has an opinion on how the tho lathes compare, I would be very much interested. Also, please let me know if the hole in the 3 jaw chuck on the Grizzly is smaller than 1”.
    Thanks!
    Unfortunately I have a 9x20 so I have no experience with either of the above. I don't know what your intended usage is but I always caution people against buying too small of a machine. In this regard I see fairly dramatic differences in size on these two machines you picked.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullworks View Post
    You should be comparing the G9972Z.

    The G0602 is a stripped down machine that gives a better option to the may 9x20 units out there. The 9x20's are very limited in rigidity such that many thing the Harbour Freight 8" lathe to be superior.

    The G0602 uses thread leads for its longitudinal feed and has only hand feed for the cross slide.

    The G9972Z does have a feed gearbox while sharing the same spindle speeds and sizes.

    I do not know if the G9972Z actually has a longer bed / more travel but it is labelled as a 26"

    On the flip side - the SB1001 is a small machine - What really jumps out at me is the 282 lbs gross shipping weight. The G0602 lists 453lbs and the G9972Z weighs in at 559

    I would go back and take a good look at the G9972Z
    Skullworks,
    You're right on with the G9972Z being a better choice. The only problem is that I need to get that lathe down a stariway with a 90 degree turn at the end. The machine only weight is 490 lbs for the G9972Z (330 lbs for the G0602 and 268 lbs for the South Bend), even if I remove the tailstock etc., that might be a daunting task. Ofcourse, having a feed gearbox may well be worth a few hours of struggle.....decisions, decisions....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    A "D" series spindle will be more expensive buy default. The whole reason for screw on spindle noses is that they are cheap to make. Still I'm not sure if that is the whole reason for the price delta.
    Wizard,
    I've never used a lathe with a "screw on spindle", is it significantly inferior? Would you expect a lot more runout?
    Most of my projects will be limited to hobby work, using aluminum and brass. I rarely turn stock larger that 2" diameter. One thing that is important is finish, because I will be using the lathe to make pistons and cylinder bores for small Sterling engines. For this reason, the 268 lbs weight of the Southbend concerns me.

  6. #6
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    Well at least it is down hill.

    Quote Originally Posted by abec1971 View Post
    Skullworks,
    You're right on with the G9972Z being a better choice. The only problem is that I need to get that lathe down a stariway with a 90 degree turn at the end.
    Gravity can be a huge help here. Seriously it would be a lot worst going up hill.
    The machine only weight is 490 lbs for the G9972Z (330 lbs for the G0602 and 268 lbs for the South Bend), even if I remove the tailstock etc., that might be a daunting task.
    The only safe way to move a larger lathe down such stairs would be to disassemble it as much as possible. Unfortunately due to the design of most lathes this doesn't partition the weight as nicely as taking apart a mill might. However taking off the the stuff hanging off the bed makes the bed more regular and easier to handle. Still you will be talking about more than 300 pounds as such it really is a two man job.
    Ofcourse, having a feed gearbox may well be worth a few hours of struggle.....decisions, decisions....
    Having a 9x20 id have to say that the gearbox isn't the big deal. Rather the heavier construction and slightly bigger capacity are the real attractions for the larger lathe. You are probably talking 50% more mass. I say probably because you need to remember part of the weight quoted will include things like the tail stock, tooling and stuff that is not always fastened to the lathe.

    As a point of reference I moved both a 9x20 and a 16" bandsaw into my cellar alone. Even though the bandsaw was "bigger" it was far easier to move into the cellar as it slide easily down the stairs (after removing much of the iron). The lathe certainly felt like more work. First I had to put it on a two wheel truck and feed it down the stairs from above. That in itself adds a bit of stress, however the the irregular nature of the lathe made it more of a struggle to keep everything going as planned. If I had to send a bigger lathe down a set of steps with a 90 degree turn I'd certainly want some help and a better truck. In that regard one of those refrigerator trucks might be just the nuts.

    Sadly I was in a lot better shape back then, this is another consideration that can't be dismissed, you really need to evaluate your physical condition before going on such a venture. The physical nature of any help too. Experience moving heavy crap doesn't hurt either.

    Long term I have some things I'd like to get and eventually move into my shop. This has lead me to think seriously about cutting part of the basement wall and putting in a set of bilco cellar entrance doors. At least then I could rent a crane or borrow an engine picker or other tool to drop in the tools. I guess it is a question of how serious you are about your shop and the desire to save ones back.

  7. #7
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    That probably should have been screw on chuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by abec1971 View Post
    Wizard,
    I've never used a lathe with a "screw on spindle", is it significantly inferior? Would you expect a lot more runout?
    Inferior is not a term I'd use. Rather it is less than optimal if you want to CNC the lathe or use techniques that involve running the spindle in reverse often.
    Most of my projects will be limited to hobby work, using aluminum and brass. I rarely turn stock larger that 2" diameter. One thing that is important is finish, because I will be using the lathe to make pistons and cylinder bores for small Sterling engines. For this reason, the 268 lbs weight of the Southbend concerns me.
    Weight isn't everything when it comes to surface finish. Fit up of parts is important. The other thing you need to look at is what is included with each of those lathes. The SouthBend unbundles some parts that are included with the other machines, this impacts the shipping weight of the machines. You really need to look very closely at the specs. The SouthBend really is a nice lathe and frankly looks to be fairly rigid for its size. You really can't compare the machines just looking at machine weights,you almost need to place the machines right next to each other to get a feeling for what each machine consists of and how it all goes together. For example some of the other lathes mentioned include back splash sheetmetal, steady and follow rests, face plates and other things that are extra for the SouthBend. These items add to the weight if the machine as shipped. More so an 8x18 lathe is a lot smaller that the 10 inch lathes so taken together that weight has to go someplace.

    In the end we really need to get some feedback from somebody that has actually purchased and used this lathe. I really think you are jumping the gun to dismiss it based on rigidity or surface finish. Considering the size of the lathe it really has some interesting features including a rather impressive clearance through the bore for an 8" lathe.

  8. #8
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    That's a very good point, Wizard, there are some items on the Grizzly that contribute to the weight, but not rigidity.

  9. #9
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by abec1971 View Post
    That's a very good point, Wizard, there are some items on the Grizzly that contribute to the weight, but not rigidity.
    Another way to look at this is that a 7x16 lathe weighs almost 90 pounds so this slightly bigger lathe weighs 3 times more. Like I said earlier I only looked at the lathe in passing but it looked to be rather capable, stout and well constructed for a Gizzly machine.

    I guess what has bothered me is people dismissing a lathe based on weight comparisons. There might be some sense in that when comparing lathes with similar capacities but that isn't the case here

  10. #10
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    Also drooling on the South Bend

    Hi Group,

    I guess it is clear nobody so far has actually tried this lathe. I have seen some reviews on other sites, but there is really not a lot you can truly hang unto. Grizzly has a very nice special going on so am wondering whether I should take advantage of it or not.

    In the mean time, wanted to ask a question on the G9972Z lathe which was mentioned before. Grizzly states this lathe to be "light use". What does this mean? That I will break it if I abuse it? That it is not meant to be used 8 hours a day 5 days a week? That it will be fine for hobbyists but not production?

    I currently have a 7x10 and amazingly enough I have been able to make pretty much anything I have needed. Also have what looks like a 7x12 (Tormach Duality Lathe) but have not used it not even once (it came with the CNC mill when I bought it used) so it is not like I need a new lathe. But I have been dreaming with a large lathe for some time. I use to own the Grizzly 12x36 and I am ashamed of selling it when I moved to Texas. How much do I regret it!!!

    Thanks for your input on the 9972Z lightness.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by avayan View Post
    Hi Group,

    I guess it is clear nobody so far has actually tried this lathe. I have seen some reviews on other sites, but there is really not a lot you can truly hang unto. Grizzly has a very nice special going on so am wondering whether I should take advantage of it or not.
    I'm not sure if it is accepted here but do you care to mention those sites? Feedback from actual users would do wonders here.

    In the mean time, wanted to ask a question on the G9972Z lathe which was mentioned before. Grizzly states this lathe to be "light use". What does this mean?
    Whatever Griz wants it to mean. Frankly I think it is Grizzlys way of covering its behind due to the many without a clue. A 10" or so lathe can come in a number of different classes and in this case I suspect Griz wants to make it clear that the lathe is a light weight machine.
    That I will break it if I abuse it? That it is not meant to be used 8 hours a day 5 days a week? That it will be fine for hobbyists but not production?
    What is hobby use? I think the point they are trying to make is that one should not expect it to perform like a heavy duty ten inch lathe.
    I currently have a 7x10 and amazingly enough I have been able to make pretty much anything I have needed. Also have what looks like a 7x12 (Tormach Duality Lathe) but have not used it not even once (it came with the CNC mill when I bought it used) so it is not like I need a new lathe. But I have been dreaming with a large lathe for some time. I use to own the Grizzly 12x36 and I am ashamed of selling it when I moved to Texas. How much do I regret it!!!

    Thanks for your input on the 9972Z lightness.
    If you have been in possession of such a large lathe you will likely long for a similar machine for some time. As such I don't think buying an 8x18 will satisfy the itch. It doesn't matter how nice it is if you bump into limits you are use to not having.

  12. #12
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    Just an FYI on the weight of the 2 machines. Machine weight only can be found in the product manuals on the Grizzly site for both. The actual machine weight of the G0602 is 330 lbs, the machine weight of the SB 8K is 268lbs. Not as big of difference as I thought. Plus that 1.5HP 3600RPM SB Variable Speed is quite an upgrade in performance and cost from the generic 1hp Cap-Start motor on the 602. That alone is about a $400-500 swing. I'm not for or against either machine, I own a 60's vintage SB Heavy Ten, but my shop has numerous Grizzly machines. The Grizzly G0602 is a good value but very basic. The new SB 1001 new price is a more in line with it's actual worth and it seems to have been thought out pretty well. Being Taiwan built, by a decent company contracted by Grizzly isn't the worst thing. Japan makes some pretty darn good machinery.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for your input wizard!

    Don't think it is illegal to point out one of the places with an actual review was Amazon. The user gave it a 4 as there were some inaccuracies. I would have expected for something referred to as "precision" to have zero inaccuracies, but I think it is known that South Bend is not what it was before.

    I think you are right and I should try to go for something closer to the 12x36. I never needed the full length, but a 12x24 seems like a decent substitution.

    Will wait a little bit longer. At the moment do not NEED the lathe. Just want it ;-)

  14. #14
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    I had to pull the trigger

    I ordered the South Bend this morning, as an early Christmas present for myself. I hope Santa can fit it down the chimney.
    I'll let you know what I think of it when it arrives.

  15. #15
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    Good news!

    Quote Originally Posted by abec1971 View Post
    I ordered the South Bend this morning, as an early Christmas present for myself. I hope Santa can fit it down the chimney.
    I'll let you know what I think of it when it arrives.
    Please report back. Any comments you have would add to the public knowledge about this machine.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by abec1971 View Post
    Hello,
    I’m not new to metalworking, but due to a recent employment change, I no longer have access to the tool room and would like to have a shop in my basement. I already have a mill and I now need a lathe. It seems that a number of members here use the Grizzly G0602 lathe, and this lathe is exactly what I’m looking for size-wise. I’m trying to decide between the Grizzly G0602 and the Southbend SB1001. The Southbend is twice the price for a very similar lathe. Reading through the online manual, I find that the Southbend seems more refined, for example the leadscrew adjustments are more than just a simple locknut. The other advantage is that the hole through spindle on the Southbend is 1-1/8” (vs 1” on the Grizzly), on the other hand the hole through the Southbend 3 jaw chuck is only 0.8” anyway. I would also prefer the D1-3 spindle nose on the Southbend, but I’m not sure if this justifies the $1000+ cost difference. If anyone has an opinion on how the tho lathes compare, I would be very much interested. Also, please let me know if the hole in the 3 jaw chuck on the Grizzly is smaller than 1”.
    Thanks!
    I think that it is safe to say that the g0602 certainly gives alot of value at its price point. I own one and also own a fully restored 1950's vintage South Bend 10k.
    Both have similiarities with the screw-on chuck mount, comparable size and weight and similar work envelope. I love both machines but each has its strengths and shortcomings. But thats always the case, no matter what you buy. I looked at the new SB 1001, when buying the 602, and just didn't feel thats it capabilities justified a $1100 premium over the g0602. But in the end its always personal decision.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk.

  17. #17
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    So I received my South Bend SB1001 lathe last week. The machine was packaged well and arrived with no damage to it or the crate. Then, after a two day journey from my garage to my basement workshop, I was able to break it in and try using it. The lathe is very solid, and out-of-the-box, did not require any end-play adjustments. The one negative item I found, so far, is that the digital rpm readout is off. I'm not sure by how much, but if I run it at a very low speed, it displays a zero rpm spindle speed, even though the spindle is turning. Not a big deal though. I tried turning a piece of aluminum and I can easily take off as little as 0.001" (0.0005" per side) incriment. The finish is very smooth when turning an od. I don't have a boring bar yet, so I haven't tried turning any bores. . I may never know if the premium over the Grizzly G0602 was really worth it, but overall I'm very happy with the machine, and found no nasty surprises thus far
    Thank you all for your input, and please feel free to ask any questions.

  18. #18
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    Show us some pics if you could. It seems like there are very few SB1001's out there and even fewer of the new 10K model. Would love to see it set up!

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk.

  19. #19
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    Good news!

    Happy to hear your initial impression is pretty good.

    As to the spindle speed indicator it may be an issue of being out of range thus the zero speed indication with very slow RPMs. In otherwords at slow RPMs the counter doesn't receive updates fast enough to produce valid readings. This is a condition separate from any possible calibration issue you may have. It is interesting that you can get down that low RPM wise, is the drive still smooth at such low speeds?

    I suspect you will be very happy with this lathe. As stated previously my last trip to the Griz store result in just a quick glance but the machine looked pretty nice during that brief moment.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuseguy View Post
    Show us some pics if you could. It seems like there are very few SB1001's out there and even fewer of the new 10K model. Would love to see it set up!

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk.

    Actually the pictures on Grizzly's web site are very good, and I don't think I can top them, here's the link: SB1001 8K

    If there are any other parts of the lathe that you'd like me to take pictures of, let me know and I'd be more than happy to do that.

    That said, here is a picture of the lathe being hoisted onto my home-made bench. The bench is 3 ft tall x 4 ft long. Don't laugh, I had to do that operation in the "non-workshop" part of the basement....my wife nearly had a fit...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails lathe on hoist.JPG  

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