[dalianharley]

I've spent a whole afternoon yesterday trying to get it work right - offset the 3mm diameter ruby tip at the end of my passive probe from Tormach. I called tormach 3 times but didn't get the problem solved. I was suggested to re-image the whole controller but i'd use that as my last resort.

I did follow the manual and set the tool to #99 in tool table and 2.997mm as the tip diameter. I also did the probe calibre with a bored hole. but the probe will always set the origin to be X-1.5 Y1.5 northwest of the actual part origin, which is the upper left hand corner.

what's more confusing, is when i restarted mach3, without selecting tool #99. the probe worked fine. All a sudden it remembered how big it is and did the 1.5mm offset all by itself, and the tool diameter DRO reads 0.0!

This is driving me crazy, can someone please point out what I've overlooked? Or is it really the controller needs a "re-image" from the DVD (which I don't have!)?

Thanks in adv.

Daz

[TurboStep]

It looks like you're working in metric so the following thread might have the solution. Search in this forum for
"Tormach Passive Touch Probe issues in metric (G21)?"
(Sorry but I couldn't work out how to copy the link using Tapatalk)
Step

[remon]

tormach, is good can you help me learn with cnc tormach?

[remon]

hey bro can you help me about G43, 42 what is diferent?

[Mantas]

Hi, sorry for late replay I had the similar problem with passive probe using in metric G21. Look at my video

I got Trormach to change the code. I am using ATC so it can be different in your case if you don't use it. Here it goes conversation with Tromach.
"Please copy the attached file and paste it into your PCNC3 folder. This file should replace the file that’s currently in the folder."
"Now it is working, but only if I enter tool 99 diameter 3 inches because as I know all tool data must be entered in inches. So now if tool 99 have diameter of 3 in G21 it correctly compensate diameter for 3 mm, but if I switch back to G20 and then it compensates those 3 inches in diameter. For me it's not big deal to just enter 3 in diameter because I always use G21 on the mill. "

[TurboStep]

"Now it is working, but only if I enter tool 99 diameter 3 inches because as I know all tool data must be entered in inches. So now if tool 99 have diameter of 3 in G21 it correctly compensate diameter for 3 mm, but if I switch back to G20 and then it compensates those 3 inches in diameter. For me it's not big deal to just enter 3 in diameter because I always use G21 on the mill. "

To be honest, that's not "working". It would be working if you could set the diameter to the correct size.
Mach3 can run fully in metric, there is no reason to have mix units in Mach3 despite what Tormach claim, and I quote a statement from Tormach:

"While the Mach3 control software can run in metric mode, there is one hitch, the tool table for Z axis tool offsets (as well as work offsets) must be entered in imperial units. This is a limitation of Mach 3."

Needless to say, this is not a limitation of Mach3. I work completely in metric. I don't use any imperial offsets, but I don't use the probe macros either. Tormach has chosen not to supply a metric configuration but I suspect if there are any limitations then it looks like they're more likely to be in their own probing macros than in Mach3.
Step

[SCzEngrgGroup]

To be honest, that's not "working". It would be working if you could set the diameter to the correct size.
Mach3 can run fully in metric, there is no reason to have mix units in Mach3 despite what Tormach claim, and I quote a statement from Tormach:

"While the Mach3 control software can run in metric mode, there is one hitch, the tool table for Z axis tool offsets (as well as work offsets) must be entered in imperial units. This is a limitation of Mach 3."

Needless to say, this is not a limitation of Mach3. I work completely in metric. I don't use any imperial offsets, but I don't use the probe macros either. Tormach has chosen not to supply a metric configuration but I suspect if there are any limitations then it looks like they're more likely to be in their own probing macros than in Mach3.
Step

Keep in mind Tormach supplies a VERY old, non-standard version of Mach3. It may well have such a bug that has been fixed in more current releases (and, of course, new bugs introduced....).

Regards,
Ray L.

[DaQue]

Keep in mind Tormach supplies a VERY old, non-standard version of Mach3. It may well have such a bug that has been fixed in more current releases (and, of course, new bugs introduced....).

Regards,
Ray L.

I don't have a mill yet but have read about the old version of mach that Tormach uses is pretty old a few times. If ts a problem can't you just go buy the latest version on Mach 3?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I don't have a mill yet but have read about the old version of mach that Tormach uses is pretty old a few times. If ts a problem can't you just go buy the latest version on Mach 3?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

You don't have to buy the latest version, the Tormach license will work with the latest version. But, Tormach will not provide support, at least for any possibly software-related problems, once they find you have a different version. And you will lose most/all of the Tormach "customizations". They do this because Mach3 has a less-than-stellar reputation for introducing new and different bugs with each new release, some rather egregious. Tormach "froze" their version with on they felt was "good enough", and they support that version only, to reduce their support burden.

Regards,
Ray L.

[waltpermenter]

I don't have a mill yet but have read about the old version of mach that Tormach uses is pretty old a few times. If ts a problem can't you just go buy the latest version on Mach 3?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

call tormach and get the facts from them instead of asking their competitor with a grudge against them, you'll be better served.

[DaQue]

You don't have to buy the latest version, the Tormach license will work with the latest version. But, Tormach will not provide support, at least for any possibly software-related problems, once they find you have a different version. And you will lose most/all of the Tormach "customizations". They do this because Mach3 has a less-than-stellar reputation for introducing new and different bugs with each new release, some rather egregious. Tormach "froze" their version with on they felt was "good enough", and they support that version only, to reduce their support burden.

Regards,
Ray L.

call tormach and get the facts from them instead of asking their competitor with a grudge against them, you'll be better served.

If I was close to buying I probably would have. I didn't know I was asking a competitor, I just wondered if there was a reason you couldn't upgrade the software. I saw a link somewhere on here after made my post from to a mach 3 forum saying some macros or customizations might not work after a upgrade. I took that to maybe be the pdb and ATC, possibly the probe input. I figured those would have to be machine specific. If I can ever save up enough to get one I would be the kind to tinker with it anyway trying to add my own upgrades. I'm beginning to think its all a pipe dream of getting one some day, but I do enjoy dreaming and learning as much as I can from there's easy chair.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[TurboStep]

...And you will lose most/all of the Tormach "customizations"...

Which customizations are you referring to?
Step

[SCzEngrgGroup]

If I was close to buying I probably would have. I didn't know I was asking a competitor, I just wondered if there was a reason you couldn't upgrade the software. I saw a link somewhere on here after made my post from to a mach 3 forum saying some macros or customizations might not work after a upgrade. I took that to maybe be the pdb and ATC, possibly the probe input. I figured those would have to be machine specific. If I can ever save up enough to get one I would be the kind to tinker with it anyway trying to add my own upgrades. I'm beginning to think its all a pipe dream of getting one some day, but I do enjoy dreaming and learning as much as I can from there's easy chair.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I do NOT work for "the competition", I simply own one of their machines (which is a cardinal sin to some on this forum). The troll, as far as anyone can tell, doesn't own ANY CNC machine, and probably never has. He simply runs around insulting people at random for his own amusement.

When you DO check with Tormach, you'll find the information I gave you to be completely correct and accurate. I would expect the PDB would still work ok, since it should not depend on Mach3 for anything - it is operated by a physical push-button. The ATC is much less likely to work, as there are macros and a plug-in required to support it. There are a several custom screens in the Tormach version of Mach3 as well, so you'd almost certainly lose them - backwards compatibility of macros and screen-sets is not a Mach3 strong point - MANY things have changed over the years that cause older macros and screen-sets to break in bizarre and often unpredictable ways. The probe input is nothing magic - just a digital input with a pullup resistor. The "magic" is in the macros, which you would lose by updating Mach3. But, there are numerous after-market screensets with very good probing macros built-in. Look at MachStdScreen from calypsoventures.com for one. One of the regulars here also has a nice screenset with good probing macros, but I forget the name. Ask around and you'll easily find it.

Before trying to update Mach3, you should make sure you have a good reason to do so. What, exactly, is it you hope to gain? Just because the Tormach version is old doesn't mean there is anything fundamentally wrong with it. As I said, Tormach froze their products at the version they did because they tested it throroughly, and felt it was reasonably stable, and supported the functionality they felt was important. If you do run into a proble, they will very likely have heard of it before, and know how to get around it. By updating, you will lose that, and be wandering out into the wilderness, and stand a good chance of running into problems.

Regards,
Ray L.

[waltpermenter]

If I was close to buying I probably would have. I didn't know I was asking a competitor, I just wondered if there was a reason you couldn't upgrade the software. I saw a link somewhere on here after made my post from to a mach 3 forum saying some macros or customizations might not work after a upgrade. I took that to maybe be the pdb and ATC, possibly the probe input. I figured those would have to be machine specific. If I can ever save up enough to get one I would be the kind to tinker with it anyway trying to add my own upgrades. I'm beginning to think its all a pipe dream of getting one some day, but I do enjoy dreaming and learning as much as I can from there's easy chair.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

yes he built/sells a pdb for novakon and is working on their atc in direct competition with tormach, don't believe his nonsensical claims to the contrary. if you read enough here especially in the threads he got closed you'll see he has a personal grudge against tormach. he does NOT have any special information related to the policies of tormach so my advice stands, call or email tormach directly to get the best information, they won't steer you wrong.

[rowbare]

Keep in mind Tormach supplies a VERY old, non-standard version of Mach3. It may well have such a bug that has been fixed in more current releases (and, of course, new bugs introduced....).

Regards,
Ray L.

Qualify VERY old.

The controller software for Series 2 and 3 machines and older upgraded machines was updated in 2012 to use Mach 3.042.xx which was the most stable version at the time. Considering Mach 3 is now at version 3.043 and hasn't been updated in over two years (according to the change log), I don't think I would call that VERY old. The previous controller software however was based on v2.x and I wouldn't argue with anyone saying THAT was VERY old.

bob

[DaQue]

I will try not is ask safer questions going forward.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[MichaelHenry]

You don't have to buy the latest version, the Tormach license will work with the latest version. But, Tormach will not provide support, at least for any possibly software-related problems, once they find you have a different version. And you will lose most/all of the Tormach "customizations". They do this because Mach3 has a less-than-stellar reputation for introducing new and different bugs with each new release, some rather egregious. Tormach "froze" their version with on they felt was "good enough", and they support that version only, to reduce their support burden.

Regards,
Ray L.

I've not tested this assumption but I expect you could always revert to the "approved" Tormach version of Mach if you encounter an issue that might be Mach-related and address it with Tormach at that point. They would probably then be willing to work with you on resolving it, if it still exists with the official Mach version.

Mike

On edit - that approach wouldn't be much help with ATC issues as you pointed out in other replies.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I've not tested this assumption but I expect you could always revert to the "approved" Tormach version of Mach if you encounter an issue that might be Mach-related and address it with Tormach at that point. They would probably then be willing to work with you on resolving it, if it still exists with the official Mach version.

Mike

On edit - that approach wouldn't be much help with ATC issues as you pointed out in other replies.

Not a reason in the world you can't have both versions installed at the same time, and switch between them any time you like. When I used Mach3, I often had as many as a half dozen different versions installed in different directories at any given time. I'm sure as long as you can reproduce the problem while running an "un--molested" Tormach version of Mach3, they'd provide support just like always.

Regards,
Ray L.

[TurboStep]

I'm not aware of any problems with the Tormach version of Mach3. Being old is no indication of it being less suited to the job. I used R3.042.029 for about 2 years - the binaries are dated 18th July 2009 so they're almost 5 years old. I only updated due to the requirements of additional features including those of the Smooth Stepper. I don't use the Smooth Stepper any more but I stayed with R3.043.066 since and haven't noticed any problems, but I haven't noticed any improvements either.

Mach3 has many components that can be characterized in groups: binaries, configuration, plug-ins, screen sets (containing macros), separate macros etc.. These components can be replaced independently of each other, without affecting the others. As Ray said, there are bugs, some of which may have workarounds already implemented for them in the macros. Basically there is nothing at all to gain by an upgrading if everything is working.
For development purposes I use several batch files to start any Mach3 version/screenset combination I choose, but all can use the very same configuration and macros. I can switch back and forth simply by starting from a different link on the desktop. Edit: All versions are stored in the same directory!

That said, Mantas IS having problems but don't believe that this is nothing to do with the Mach3 version. The problem (still) appears to lie in the macros embedded in the screen set. By the way, these macros could be modified by creating a new Tormach specific release but still based on the original Mach3 version, simply by upgrading the screenset in the package.

I checked out the screenset he posted, and from what I have seen, they have just implemented the fix proposed by Spook: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac...ml#post1367368 but it's still not working the way it should.

I have a cheapie probe that I don't acually use, and I've never used the Tormach probe routines either, but I thought I'd check it out anyway. Without the fix from Spook the probe only moved a short distance before stopping and wouldn't retract from the workpiece after the measurement was completed but the axes were zeroed correctly. With Spooks correction added everything worked perfectly (well as perfect as my cheapie probe would allow). So what's Mantas doing wrong? Well I believe nothing at all

In the same macros that need Spooks fix I found the following code:
ProbeRad = GetToolParam (99, 1) / 2.0 <== this gets the probe diameter from the tool table and calculates the radius.

This value is used further down the macro:
Y = Y + ProbeRad <== the probe radius is added to the Y position.

This works for me because I have native units set to metric. My probe diameter is set in metric and the Y position is also in metric.

Tormach prevents you changing the native units of Mach3 (or makes it more difficult). It appears that Manta is using imperial native units and was trying to work in metric. In this case, the axis position will be metric but GetToolParam just returns the number stored in the tool table, which is set in native units. Shouldn't there be another imperial to metric conversion here when G21 is used. This way the probe diameter could be specified in inches and be converted to a metric value when G21 is used?

I haven't tried this exact combination because all of my configurations are now fully metric but I'm quietly confident that this would work. Similar code appears in several macros.
Step

[Mantas]

I understand that Tormach concentrates on imperial units and metric units are just in case Because there was quite few bugs with metric units before. I couldn't start Mach3 on metric units whatever I did, then Tormach provided update to their software to eliminate this bug. I have another bug? with iMachining toolpath but this bug I was told is related to Mach3 http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac...ml#post1509096 version. As I have Tormach controller I think the safest way of trying new version of Mach3 would be just install latest Mach3 to another PC and copy Mach.exe with different filename to PCNC directory and run that file in this case all settings will remain Tormach and no messing up anything. But does this "update" will work correctly? As I read that also driver must by updated. Can someone put some more light in here?