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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Thomas,

    I have a couple more questions about the spindle which you probably could answer from the top of your head.

    1. To release the tool, the drawbar pushed down by a hydraulic cylinder. Does the force end up applied on the spindle's bearings as well or is there some sort of mechanism that pushed the drawbar down without pushing on the shaft of the spindle and the bearings as well?

    2. What's the clamping force of the spindle?

    Btw, you've made a heck of progress from the slimy state the mill was in to the clean. painted and working state its now in !!!

    Thanks, Dumitru.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    20

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Does anyone have and seal these boards (YAPSC:10V),, If so I need them.

    Please write on my e-mail [email protected]

    Asek

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by petruscad View Post
    1. To release the tool, the drawbar pushed down by a hydraulic cylinder. Does the force end up applied on the spindle's bearings as well or is there some sort of mechanism that pushed the drawbar down without pushing on the shaft of the spindle and the bearings as well?

    2. What's the clamping force of the spindle?
    Hi Dumitru,

    Sorry for the slow response. Haven't been on in a while.

    The hydraulic cylinder pushes down on the fork end of the draw bar. This pushes down on the top of the spring stack. The bottom of the spring stack sits on the top of the collet sleeve. The bottom of the collet sleeve sits up against a shoulder inside the spindle. So yes, the spindle bearings do see the full force of the hydraulic cylinder during unclamping. In this scenario it is the top two spindle bearings that see the force of the unclamping. The bottom two (nearest the tool taper) are unaffected.

    As for the clamping force I am not sure. I would imagine it is the standard cat40 clamping force. According to THIS SITE the suggested drawbar pull force for a cat40 should be 2300lbs

    Hope this helps.

    -Tom

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Interesting...

    This is not usually the case in other milling machines; most seem to have a mechanism that creates a differential force so the bearings are not put under load. Maybe this spindle has bearings with enough static load capacity to not get hurt by the load. However, since the differential mechanism is not that complicated I think I'm going to make it so as to push only on the drawbar and not on the spindle shaft.

    The clamping force given by various sources is indeed in the 2000-2500lb range.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Yea. The bearings can definitely take it. When I rebuilt the spindle I replaced the bearings with two pair of NSK 7014CTRDULP4Y. According to the catalog the 7014C bearings have a permissable axial load of 26.8kN (6,025lbs). Because they are paired up at each end, two bearing would be taking an axial load so the spindle in this configuration can take up to 12,050 lbs axially. When unclamping, the springs are compressed further than when they are holding a tool in the taper so a higher load than the 2500 lb figure given will be experianced. I'm not sure what that figure is but even if it was double (5000lbs) then you can see that it is far lower than what the bearings are able to take.

    If it's not that much extra work then making a differential mechanism might be the way to go as taking any unnecessary load off the bearings is always a plus. But if it gives you a lot of extra work then I would just say to keep it simple and just put a hydrualic or pneumatic piston that pushes down against the drawbar fork.

    Since I rebuilt the spindle I've probably put over 15,000 tool changes on it and over a thousand hours of max rpms and the spindle bearings are still whisper quiet.

    -Tom

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Thomas, there are tapped holes for four M6 bolts at the very top of the spindle shaft, what are they for? I though that there's where the pull flange bolts on for the differential drawbar but now since you're saying its not differential I wonder what goes there...

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Those holes are used for coupling the two spindle shafts together. if you scroll up to post #39, looking at the 3rd image you'll see the hex screws that hold the two shafts together. Torque is delivered through the keys but these screws just simply hold everything in place.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Thomas, can you measure the basic dimensions of the sleeve into which the collet fingers go? I just need the two external diameters and the lengths of the two cylinders. I'm going to make the sleeve and I want it to fit precisely. Thanks.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by petruscad View Post
    Thomas, can you measure the basic dimensions of the sleeve into which the collet fingers go? I just need the two external diameters and the lengths of the two cylinders. I'm going to make the sleeve and I want it to fit precisely. Thanks.
    Sure. I'll measure them tomorrow when I'm in the shop.

    -Tom

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    19

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hello Thomas,

    I did purchase from UK a used Mazak VQC 15/40 manufactured in 1989 with M32 NC, no pallet changer.
    I did disassembly it and clean each part because it was a mess, very close to your pictures. Did not paint it yet, only purchased the polyurethane paint and I did not install the protections on it because I decided to start it after the cleaning processes.
    I have the same Mazak machine with a small difference, I got the version with AC servo that use MR-S amplifiers and 5000PPR encoders on both motors and ball screws.
    Unfortunately the axis amplifiers cannot be used with analog input, they only connect to FC335M using bus link .
    Both motor encoders and ball screw encoders are connected to the amplifier. Amplifiers close the loop with add on card RF31C.

    After starting up the machine I had problems with the initialization procedure because the NEC floppy unit was not functional. I was able to replicate the System disk and DNC Option disk using Omniflop and create some USB images. I also did purchase a FLOPPY emulator at this phase.
    The intention was to test first the machine and to see how M32 looks. I was reluctant and scared of servos replacing idea.
    Reinitialize the M32 controller and again got an error (different from the first one), the second is a parity error message and a CPU_B DOWN error. I did purchase MC111, MC121, MC427 etc from eBay and start again. The same error, Parity Error , Error at or near $00780DCA
    CPU_B DOWN.
    At this point I decided to contact Mazak representative in my country, register the machine and got no response until today (one month waist).

    So my next step would be to remove the NC controller.
    I have two option to use MR-J2S-70A with HCUSF73 servos (I have them already from a future project of a rotational axis) or use a generic amplifier Argon (ordered already from granitedevices) from www.garnitedevices.com with the HA83 servos.

    Until now we did use Linuxcnc on our CNC machines so we are familiar with Axis interface. We did had some problems with Mesa regarding grounding in the past because of poor grounding points.

    How is your experience with Kflop/Kanalog/KConect until now? It was easy to program the tool magazine?

    Thank you,
    Razvan

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hey Razvan,

    Seems like you have a lot going on. Overall the kflop is pretty good with only a few issues. I do on occasion have the konnects fault out and need to be reinitialized but that is due to a bad cable connector and that only happens about once a month. Also on rare occasions, while running g-code and a custom user program is encountered, like during an m code or S word, the program will hang for several seconds and then continues as normal.

    Something you should take into account is that the controller can only perform coordinated motion with 2nd order motion. This makes the jerk infinite and produces a harsh thump when an axis is accelerating if the acceleration isn't set quite low. For a machine the size of the VQC the acceleration has to be set quite low because of the inertia otherwise you will induce a lot of stress on the screws and bearings.

    Other than those issues the kflop and it's peripherals are great. It's easy to customize and program, especially if you're familiar to C programming. If not it's still pretty easy because there are a ton of sample programs included with the software which can easily be customized to suit your needs.

    The tool changer was very easy to program. The machine I have uses the hydraulic motor which spins the carousel via a geneva cam. Some of the newer VQCs used servo motors which made indexing the carousel to a non-sequential tool much faster. This would require you to interface to its servo amplifier just like any other axis but should still be pretty straight forward.

    -Tom

  12. #52
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    19

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hello Thomas
    My machine had MR-S AC servos instead of brushed DC servo that you have. MR-S AC servo does not have analog controls, driver can be interfaced only with Meldas NC Controller.
    I did replace the MR-S servo pack with MR-J2S , 750W ac servo pack. The HC-USF73 had the same flange so no modification was necessary. Only new pulleys because older had taper shaft.
    I did install LinuxCNC and Mesa 7I77 board and 7I85S for extra encoders .
    How did you setup the limits, the machine has a trapezoidal limit dog.
    Can you tell me what type are the oil sensors? The spindle chiller is a pressure sensor or temperature sensor ? The hydraulic pump for the ATC motor is a pressure sensor?
    What encoder input signal did you use as feedback device for Kflop? Did you split the spindle encoder to Kflop and FR-S driver?
    I do not have the electrical wiring of the machine so I only have to go on each wire. Can you share the wiring diagram, l will pay for it. Will help a lot, because finding each wire will eat my time.

    Thank you,
    Razvan

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    3

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Thomas I send you a PM with few questions...

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    7

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hi!
    I really appreciate what you've got with this machine!
    It was nice and it works well as usual.
    I have a question for you.
    I would like to buy such a machine. The seller wrote that ( Maschine hat Fehlercode 55X Servo... , Machine has error code 55X servo ) this error message is.
    What is this, what's wrong with the machine?
    Thank you very much for your response.
    Sincerely Yours Mihály

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    107

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hello

    Can you email me? i got a VQC like this from 1990 - i got some servo drive problems maybe you can help me with

    my email is vohnsen AT gmail.com

  16. #56

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Zamirski View Post
    A member asked for instructions on how to tear down the spindle and get to the drawbar so I figured I'd make a post here that way if anyone else needs to know how it's done they can benefit from it as well.

    Step 1: Remove the lower spindle cover.

    This cover is on two hinges on the side closest to the operator. On the far side of the spindle there are two screws which hold the cover shut. Unscrewing these screws allows the cover to swing open. On the bottom of that cover there are two screws which hold the coolant manifold in place. Unscrew those two screws to free the manifold. Unplug the wires that connect to the lamp. Now an extra set of hands will make this part easier. Have someone hold the cover, taking pressure off of the hinges. Use and thin, long object to push out the pins in the hinges. Once the pins are out the cover can be moved out of the way.

    Attachment 282528
    Attachment 282530


    Step 2: Separate the two spindle shafts.

    First you need to remove the black bracket under the hydraulic unclamping cylinder to give you enough room the get an allen wrench onto the screws that are holding the two shafts together.

    Attachment 282532


    Step 3: Remove the spindle cartridge

    First unscrew the screws holding the spindle cartridge in place. Once unscrewed the cartridge should remain in the spindle assembly by friction alone. I recommend putting some wood blocks underneath in case it just falls out but chances are it will sit in there. You will need to use 2 M10 screws to jack the spindle out little by little.

    Attachment 282534

    Keep in mind that the perimeter of the spindle cartridge is cooled with cooling oil so have an oil pan on your machine table to catch the oil that will come pouring out. Once you let all the oil drain you can continue onward with pulling the cartridge out.

    Attachment 282536
    Attachment 282538

    You can now do what you need to do to the spindle cartridge. The drawbar is easy to get to. It is held in place by the friction of an oring so all you have to do is pull on the fork to get it out.

    Attachment 282540

    If your spindle is not clamping the tool properly then it could be one of the following. The hydraulic clamping cylinder is not returning to the clamp position (towards the top). The hydraulic cylinder does not do the actual clamping. It only unclamps the tool. The belleville washer springs are what actually provide the force for clamping the tool. The washer springs could be fatigued and no longer provide the proper force so they would need to be replaced. One or both of the pull stud fingers may be broken.

    Drawbar assembly pictured below without the belleville washers installed.

    Attachment 282542
    Attachment 282544

    After unscrewing the collet finger nut the nut should slide out and then the fingers can be pulled out individually and now you have access to the belleville washer springs.

    Do all the repairs you need and then reassemble the spindle in reverse order. One thing I recommend you do when putting the spindle cartridge back in the spindle is to use a car jack to push it back into position. Also make sure that the keys on the lower spindle shaft line up with the keyways on the upper spindle shaft when you are jacking the cartridge back into place. If they are not lined up and you jack up the cartridge into the upper shaft it will shift the upper bearing or bearings (depending on if you have a 6000rpm spindle or 10000 rpm spindle) and could cause some damage.

    Hope this helps and if you have any questions feel free to ask.
    Great job, and you made a excellent record.
    We also did Mazak VQC 20/40B few years back.
    http://cncmakers.com/cnc/controllers/CNC_Controller_System/CNC_Retrofit_Package.html

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    1

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    pl share images of whole mazak vqc 15/40 parts during retrofitting and pl share mechanical manual of mazak vqc 15/40 if available and send it to "[email protected]"

  18. #58

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hi Dear Thomas,please give me email,i have question from this machine,need help

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