[tipschips]

Which machine is the most bang for the buck for light machining of mainly plastic and aluminum. Also, which is the easiest to convert to CNC later?

[ZipSnipe]

Awhile back I was in your shoes. trying to figure which mill I wanted. I,ve seen the x2 in person and it is small and flimsy lookin but cheap(low initial investment). The Sherline is well made but really i think is geared towards the model maker crowd. The Taig is simply built but nice, and has good travel. Plus it can be bought of Ebay CNC equipted for around $1700 shipped. But if I was just starting and on a limited budget the X2 is not bad plus it uses the popular R8 spindle. I used the X2 mill head for my manual mill that I built. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18992
CNCzone.com-The Ultimate Machinist Community - My Manual small mill project

Basically you should figure what you want to make and research the specs on the machine and make sure it can handle what you want.

[tipschips]

I plan on using it for making model RC helicopter parts, but I'm sure I'll end up wanting to make bigger things.

I don't want to buy some cheap, flimsy machine that will fall apart and I know you need a bigger machine with more power to do larger projects/harder metals.

I just need the most bang for the buck machine that will get me through the "learning stage". I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants a great machine for little $, I'm leaning towards the x2, but I just don't want to buy a piece of junk that I will make a couple parts on and want to throw it in the trash.

[radicooldude]

The only problems that i see is that the Sherlines are made out of aluminum right? I dont think aluminum machining aluminum would be a good idea. You would have to take a really weak cut with it. THe taig is stronger, and kinda inbetween the sherline and x2 in strength. The x2 looks the strongest, being all cast iron. My choice would be the XJ-9510 at $495. Note, if you inquire and tell them that harbor freight is a cheaper but similiar item, they may give you a discount. They offered it to me for $450.

This machine has the quality of a sherline, yet stronger than a X2. It also has large X and Y travels, hand scrapped ways, strong 1/2hp motor..and more. Take a look and compare. I think youd like it.

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=6133

[tipschips]

That does look nice. I have never heard of the brand. How hard is it to add CNC later?

[KDN Tool]

Have a look at my site www (dot) kdntool (dot) com for the Xj-9510 converted to cnc. I will be introducing a kit soon. Still working on ball screws for it. It is far superior to the X2 in design.

Ken
KDN Tool

[Stuff-Builder]

tipschips,

I bought a Taig CR16 about a year ago, and I think it's a very nice machine. I already had some stepper motors and drivers around, so it took me about an hour to "convert" this mill to CNC. If your goal is to learn CNC machining, then this is a quick way to get started. If you want to enjoy the process of conversion, then one of the Chinese mills is probably a good starting place.

In use, I've found the Taig to be a solid machine. It will run 1/4" endmills in aluminum literally all day. I know there's a few guys on the board doing production with Taig mills. The high spindle speed and 5-1/2" x 12" travel help a lot. If I were buying today I would opt for the ER spindle - offers a lot more versatility.

I think the Taig is great bang for the buck. Yes, you can get a bigger machine for the same money, but if you want to be cutting CNC parts *today* the Taig is a great way to do it. No messing, just chips flying everywhere!

Happy hunting,
Scott

[JFettig]

you should also consider the X3, its bigger and would likely fill all your needs. If I had time to use one, I'd have already picked one up.


Jon

[phantomcow2]

The mill in that link looks very nice.
I agree with Jfettig that the X3 is something you should consider. It is a very solid machine, and the quality is first rate for the most part. It looks far superior to the X2 in quality and design.

[tipschips]

So is the Taig the easiest to make CNC...are they CNC ready and the others are coversions? That would be a plus. I'm sure my future plans will include making chips, not trying to figure out how to rig a machine for CNC.

[JFettig]

I wouldn't say quality is first rate, or even close, but it is probably the best choice out of all of them. It is DEFINATELY superior to the X2.


Jon

[phantomcow2]

X3 is not first rate compared to your American machines like bridgeports, or VMC's. But compared to any other asian tool, or what a hobbyist would have, I think it is. All components are very well machined, perfect fits, dowel fits at that. Quality of leadscrews is nice, they are quite smooth. No cheesy plastic gears, it is well designed. Perpendicularity was right on, no movement detected with my .0005" DTI.

[ZipSnipe]

I second Radiocool's recommendation. That is a nice mill for benchtop pretty much the same as an x2 but made to euro standards.

[Stuff-Builder]

I misspoke - my mill is a Taig 2019CR. It's the one that has 12" x 5.5" x-y travel. This mill is "computer ready", meaning it's got NEMA 23 stepper motor mount instead of crank handles. So you just bolt on steppers, hook up your drivers, and you're ready to go. It also has CNC-specific bronze leadscrew nuts, and an upgraded spindle motor.

I have no experience with an X3, though it does look like a substantial machine. Travel is a little larger than my machine. I think separate CNC conversion kits are available, but I don't know how much they cost or how well they work. The max spindle speed of 2000 rpm seem rather low.

To cut aluminum and plastic well - especially with small cutters - you need to get the spindle speed cranked up. I run my mill at 4200 rpm to cut aluminum with a 1/4" end mill. On the fastest pulley, it'll spin at 10,000 rpm, which is great if you're trying to use very small cutters.

Scott

[tipschips]

Thanks for the info guys. I broke down and bought a Harbor Freight X1. I couldn't resist at $259. I know this machine has limitations, but looks like it will be good for getting my feet wet and getting blocks/vises/accessories. It looks like people like to CNC this little guy, but I will probably save that for my next machine. So what are the essential accessories? How are the 2 x 3 blocks with the holes in them and parallel blocks used? I just ordered some of the jaw clamps from LMS, some end mills and an end mill holder.

[radicooldude]

Are all sales final? Seriously, I would take it back. I bought one a long time ago, and really regret my purchase. Unless you want to mill anything in a 1x1" shape, it is not rigid enough, UNLESS repeat UNLESS you get the extended Y-axis kit from LMS. When you are milling something in the y-axis direction on the micro, the table will move off the dovetails the farther you reach to its travel limit. It makes it severely weak and rattles like a biatch. Also, it doesn't have bearings in the handles, and unless you love backlash, you are gonna hate turning those handles with the screws tight. I am saying this, being an actual owner of one. I do NOT have the extended axis's, and I am sure if I did, it would be much nicer. I just feel that the Y-axis is a major flaw on this machine, and you will spend forever trying to make something nice when it will be rattling around on you when you are doing a piece that is 2.5" or larger in the y direction. Just my own opinion of how my machine is. - Zachery

[ZipSnipe]

Yeah that is a small mill, almost toyish. Radiocool is correct about the handles and the rattle. However $259 does allow you to get you feet wet . The blocks are used to raise a work piece level and closer to the spindle(which on an x1 I can,t see the need for them). You,ll probably be reduced to paper thin cuts on aluminum and steel. Good luck and have fun.

[phantomcow2]

The Y axis fixes a lot of problems, it makes it much better.
Source of flex in the column is that stupid adapter plate that comes with the extended base, you will find this out when you drill. I solved that by milling a new plate 2x as thick and surface grinding both sides parallel. Cut flex 250%.
I wont lie though, hte X3 makes me far happier. THere is no comparison, you will learn with the X1 though and that is okay.
I do recommend adding thrust bearings for the handles though, it makes the handles backlash free and much smoother.

[tipschips]

My goal is to save a few $ and get a much nicer machine in the next year...or as long as my patience lasts with the X-1. I figure that's part of the journey. I might eventually convert this machine into a high speed router for cutting out g10 and carbon fiber for my rc helicopters...then get a larger machine for heavier jobs.

How do I add thrust bearings to the handles? I have noticed a lot of flex in them. I have them running pretty smoothly now after taking them apart, cleaning and oiling the threads. That red crap gets everywhere. It looked like blood on the white styrofoam in my trash can.

[festess]

Since you already have one you might also want to check out the yahoo group about cnc conversion for it. There's alot of good information there about the mill in general as well as the cnc part of it. Yahoo Group hf47158toCNC

Here's a link to some 8mm thrust bearings Vxb bearings

You will need to bore out the pocket in the screw base where the lead screw seats to allow for the diameter of the bearing and the thickness of it. Then place the other between the handle and screw base. Then when you tighten the nut that holds the handle on you load against the bearings.

Some folks also use these 8mm deep groove ball bearings for the same thing.
8mm Deep groove bearings

If you haven't had the mill completly apart you might want to think about it. When mine arrived it had what looked and felt like grinding dust in all of that red shipping grease. It was everywhere including inside the housing where the plastic gears are. I spent a couple of hours cleaning everything up and then relubing it all.