[justCNCit]

I'd like to get into CAD/CAM area of machining whether or industrial or whatever, right now.

Initially I entered college with extensive CAD and computer experience far beyond your average machinist, but of course was at only an average level as far as basic machining went.

Was never really interested in machining on its own but here we are(in college taking machining). I've sort of been interested more in doing custom one off jobs, by getting self employed with either a CNC router or retro'd mill.

So after work experience I was pretty bummed out. . ended up doing CNC production work. I'm not going to lie, I hated it (probably because of the guy I had to work with) and at the same time I don't see a future in production machining.

What do I need to do to get a job doing CAD/CAM and stuff like custom castings? Even if I have to do a bit of CNC production I suppose it wouldn't be that bad.

I can whip up a solid model in no time.

[InspirationTool]

If you like building things in cyberspace rather than metal, maybe you should be looking at a career as a 3D draftsperson or industrial designer?

-Jeff

[cadcam]

Before you can become a Fulltime Cad-Cam person you really need time as a machinist so you fully understad cutting and diffrent types of setups.

This what I see as a trainer over the years,

[Rekd]

I'd like to get into CAD/CAM area of machining whether or industrial or whatever, right now.

Initially I entered college with extensive CAD and computer experience far beyond your average machinist, but of course was at only an average level as far as basic machining went.

Was never really interested in machining on its own but here we are(in college taking machining). I've sort of been interested more in doing custom one off jobs, by getting self employed with either a CNC router or retro'd mill.

So after work experience I was pretty bummed out. . ended up doing CNC production work. I'm not going to lie, I hated it (probably because of the guy I had to work with) and at the same time I don't see a future in production machining.

What do I need to do to get a job doing CAD/CAM and stuff like custom castings? Even if I have to do a bit of CNC production I suppose it wouldn't be that bad.

I can whip up a solid model in no time.

I'm with cadcam. No matter how 'far beyond' an average machinist you think you might be, it will do you NO good if you don't spend at least a couple years as a machinist.

[dertsap]

production is where lots of guys start , the purpose for this is to have a guy load and unload parts , a company wants to see where a guys attention span can carry him , if a guy has good consitent parts that is the first thing , it is neccessary to understand the process rather than thinking a process can be created on a cad/cam system , the understanding of the various uses of the many different tools out there ,their true purpose ,capabilities , not what the tool manufacurer wants to tell you to sell his tools , there are far too many factors to list
fixturing is one of the biggest parts of machining that a guy has to understand , the approach on how to hold a complex part ,down to the simpler things as ,eaze of loading and unloading
i worked with a guy who was an engineering student , he was a very small individual , our company threw him into programming , i can t tell you how many arguements and trash programs that i saw over a long period of time , the one thing that i did appreciate is the fact that when i asked him to use different tools paths and approaches , he did it , this is something that would benifit any programmer ,listen to the guy who has to make the part ,
Rekd said No matter how 'far beyond' an average machinist you think you might be,
i say dont ever think that you are beyond the average machinist , we are the guys who make it all work ,and figure out how to save the part when you mess up a program to save our butts and yours

[tobyaxis]

Everyone pretty much covered most of everything JustCNCit. You would be better off getting more experience as a machinist before entering a career as a CNC Programmer. The more machinist experience you have the more you will have to offer a potential employer. If you can find a place where your comfortable stay there for a while to build your experience.

[justCNCit]

Thanks for the advice.

[NC Cams]

Go to Mooresville, North Carolina. Get a job with a Nascar shop. Many are located in and around that neck of the woods.

They use lots of CNC'd stuff - mostly trick special stuff as in 4 and 5 axis head porting. Haas is a popular type of machine in used there. Offer to sweep the floor if you have to in order to get hired. Only make sure they know you are trained in 3D and CNC.

You never know when Billy Bob CNC guru gets a better offer down yonder and you're the fresh meat they need at the time....

Long hours, short lead times, reasonable pay amount, high demands in performance but you'd be living the dream in big time auto wrestling. Aaaah show business....

[BMackinnon]

justCNCit,
I can understand 100% what you are saying.
I wasnt sure of what trade I wanted to get into and started off taking a basic Machining course. I did very well in the class and the instructors encouraged me to follow-up on it. So I took a 2 year dipolma machining course and again was told to continue. So I took Manufacturing Engineers course.
The first job (summer job) I had was working for Michelin Tires in thier manual shop where I was lucky enough to be close friends with one of the red seals and we taught each other a lot. Then went on to avation manufacturing and was operating till one night shift when a part they had run for 3 years came my way and it just seemed silly the way it was programmed and not caring about the policy on changing programs, I went ahead and re-programed it by hand and made a new fixture and still saved time from the original process. Thus getting me a programming positon. This was good but I still missed the hum of the machine.
I took a job as a programer/cost improvement consulant for engineers at a AM/FM broadcast, telecommunications manufacutring plant. The job was great but when work orders started going down I was back to just operating on the floor. There was no money for reserch and devolpment and therefore I was laid off.
While looking for a job and manily targeting the "bigger" companies, I found a small repair and service shop that was starting to get into more high end custom CNC work and they wernt avdertising for a positon but the guy they had currently hired was not working out and Ive been there since.
Now there's just me for the CNC side of the shop and I get to machine the way I want no questions asked, where the highest quanity I do is of 6. So I can say Ive been very lucky that at 25 I was able to only do a year an a half of staright operating and not my whole trade or many years as it takes for some people to advance. Cause normally a lot of companies wont hire someone for such a postion without a proven resume. I asked them to take the chance with me and they have told me I worked out beyond thier expectations.
So If I was to give you any advice I would say stay away from the high end companies and look more to the smaller shops. But like dertsap said you HAVE to know fixturing, setups and all the other machining factors. The soild model is not the hard part of a job but to be able to machine it efficently the first time and repeat it is where the experience comes in.
So if this something you want to get into I wouldnt worry about your CAD skills and study more on machining practises and theories, cause there is a lot of little things to the trade that you dont learn at any school.

[dertsap]

it surprises me how many people i see that say " hey i want to do that so i'm going to" without understanding , these are Professional Skills , it is not something learned overnight , and it sure isn't learned by book theory , this is a Profession , a person is geared to it or not , i ve worked with many guys over time who called themselves machinists , and i supose they were , but only a handfull of them i would consider to be professionals .
i would never try to discourage anyone from the trade , but sometimes the cold hard reality is it has to be in the man not just the man getting into it ,
i have a hard time beleaving that seasoned machinists will respect the position of a programmer that has never cut a chip coming down to the floor to tell them how they should make there parts
in all due respect , if you go straight into programming remember what i posted earlier listen to the machinists and follow their lead until you have some legs to stand on

[NC Cams]

BMackinnon: I hope you do know that once a part is certified for avaition use, you can NOT change the process by which it is/was machined WITHOUT COMPLETELY RECERTIFYING IT???

Your employer could be severly fined and/or even jailed if a plane should a plane fall out of the sky and the failure be traced to a part that had an unauthorized change made to the manufacturing process. It is altogether possible that ANYONE associted with the change could encounter serious legal consequences - like being put out of business and/or jailed.

Not only was that irresponsible but it was ILLEGAL.

What gaves you the right to arbitrarily change a machining process? Why do you think there was a policy about unauthorized programming changes? If your boss didn't fire you on the spot - he should have.

Messing with production procedures in an aviation parts manufacturing operation is not very smart - actually it is/was incredibly stupid. A tiny unplanned for tool mark that inadvetrantly could have been produced by your well intended but ill concieved "improvement" leave a stress riser that could lead to a catstrophic failure of the part.

Think about that the next time you or your family gets on a plane - think about whether or not some know-it-all-kid machined it his way instead of the certified way.

After you do that, enjoy your flight....

[BMackinnon]

ok .. you took that and blew it way out of the water. The part I was machining was a simple 45 fitting and all that was done in the milling op of the process was a 30 degree chamfer, something like .275" deep. It was programed with a call out of 5 D codes that had to be manually keyed on the controller for G41 on the machine. All I did was program it the right way with one D callout. And the fixture was the original one and I made one more rigid that would hold 4 at a time. I didnt mean to imply that I was changing some high toleranced strong GD&T controlled part. I have more sense then that. Not ever would I of done something that was going to change or disrupt the function of a part.

[tobyaxis]

BMackinnon: I hope you do know that once a part is certified for avaition use, you can NOT change the process by which it is/was machined WITHOUT COMPLETELY RECERTIFYING IT???

Your employer could be severly fined and/or even jailed if a plane should a plane fall out of the sky and the failure be traced to a part that had an unauthorized change made to the manufacturing process. It is altogether possible that ANYONE associted with the change could encounter serious legal consequences - like being put out of business and/or jailed.

Not only was that irresponsible but it was ILLEGAL.

What gaves you the right to arbitrarily change a machining process? Why do you think there was a policy about unauthorized programming changes? If your boss didn't fire you on the spot - he should have.

Messing with production procedures in an aviation parts manufacturing operation is not very smart - actually it is/was incredibly stupid. A tiny unplanned for tool mark that inadvetrantly could have been produced by your well intended but ill concieved "improvement" leave a stress riser that could lead to a catstrophic failure of the part.

Think about that the next time you or your family gets on a plane - think about whether or not some know-it-all-kid machined it his way instead of the certified way.

After you do that, enjoy your flight....

Not to make an argument but to share a bit of info.

He did not say it was a FLIGHT SAFETY Part. ONLY FLIGHT SAFETY PARTS have to get recertified buy the Auditor of the Builder of the AirCraft.

And forget about a fine, his employer will lose the job and others that are Flight Safety. He gets reported to the US Federal Gov't and will never see an AirCraft part in his shop or have quote on his desk that is AirCraft or related to AirCraft. I have seen Auditors from Builders Close Shops for false Documentation in a parts manufacturing process and it wasn't even the Machining End, it was MisLabeling of a part number. Very Strict.

[BMackinnon]

I should probably state that the poilcy on not changing a part program at this shop was not untill it was approved by the shop foreman who would go to the production manager with it and for something like this they didnt mind. I was also encouraged when I was hired to find better ways to do the job.
I didnt mean to start an arguement I was just trying to give some advice, but I guess Im just a know-it-all-kid machinist.

[tobyaxis]

I should probably state that the poilcy on not changing a part program at this shop was not untill it was approved by the shop foreman who would go to the production manager with it and for something like this they didnt mind. I was also encouraged when I was hired to find better ways to do the job.
I didnt mean to start an arguement I was just trying to give some advice, but I guess Im just a know-it-all-kid machinist.

No, just like the rest of us HardCore Machining guys in the Forum. As sometimes we get carried away. We are only Human, right?

[Trapper14]

wow I have never seen such an upset post, with so little information, good job thought BMAKINNON

[dertsap]

Initially I entered college with extensive CAD and computer experience far beyond your average machinist,

probably due to his first mistake , never underestimate the other guy , especially when you want to ask him a question

[justCNCit]

That's true the post was written all wrong. First thing I want to say now is that I realize I have about as much potential as most guys out there but a ton of CAD / computer programming experience behind me that I didn't mention. . as for job experience and manual machining most of you could probably blow me right out of the water.

Not sure where everybody is on this post but after giving it alot of thought all I'm gonna do is finish up tech. college and first get competent at machining using conventional machines & get my own hobby CNC router thing up and running and so get comfortable with doing setups and dealing with CNC machined parts.

Alot of upset people in this post though, I don't think they had the right to ream me out like that without knowing everything about me, it seems as though they were pretty quick to jump.

I don't want to come off looking like and ass and arrogant, but neither am I afraid of being confident about things that I know. Simply looking for insight into different career paths I could take. Now should I be asking that here or not.

PS. And thanks BMackinnon for your encouraging and informative post.

[Geof]

......Alot of upset people in this post though, I don't think they had the right to ream me out like that without knowing everything about me, it seems as though they were pretty quick to jump.

I don't want to come off looking like and ass and arrogant, but neither am I afraid of being confident about things that I know. Simply looking for insight into different career paths I could take. Now should I be asking that here or not.

PS. And thanks BMackinnon for your encouraging and informative post.

If you have not been jumped on you haven't lived; welcome to the club

I will comment that if you cannot hack boring production work then you should reconsider getting into a machining career. I can tell you many times it is the boring stuff that pays all the bills and gives you the financial cushion so you can afford to branch into interesting stuff that is a much less predictable income source.

Also my suggestion is forget about spending time with a hobby machine because in my view you will only have to unlearn and relearn a lot of stuff when you start on real machines. Get yourself a job like BMackinnon suggests and keep your eyes and ears open and show a willingness to learn. It will take several years to gain experience and knowledge but that is the way it is.

[NC Cams]

The one thing that is hard to get around on message boards is the the postings you make do not have a "tone of voice" to listen to - your printed words say it ALL.

This is a prime reason why you should READ your post several times before you post it. Yes, you may still come off looking like a jerk BUT you can also catch some real dumb statements before you PROVE that you are a jerk when you really may not be one.