[Burn]

Hi All,

If I were to buy the 4-A 4-axis kit from IMService (http://cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?Pa...ROD&ProdID=131), Can someone give me an itemized list of everything else I would need to buy to complete the setup? The people there have been of no help at all and I am turning to you guys for the help I need.


Thanks a bunch
Burn

[turmite]

I'm gonna say this knowing full well I make take a flame for it. (flame2)

If they have been no help..........why are you looking there? I'm not going to recommend anyone, but take a hard look at the advertizers list here on the zone. You will find there is a full menu.

Mike

[Burn]

Thanks for the thoughts, I appreciate them.

I chose these guys mainly because they included just about everything I would need (hardware-based) except for a couple things...I found that it would be a bit easier ordering from them if I had a basic idea of what I would need to buy additionally.

I also like their servoes- They seem pretty powerful.

If you have the time, would you mind reccomending some other manufacturers of a similar kit?

[Deviant]

heh,

I'm not afraid of being flamed.

What mill are you planning on cnc'ing?

Are you 100% sure you need the servos. Alot of people here are running the hobbycnc board board with 250-500oz stepper motors. There are also other stepper driver options.

That kit doesn't included the power supply, enclosure, couplers for leadscrews, mounts for the motors to mill, or the software/pc to drive them. Also, you'll have to get a rotary table that can take that setup. Or any improvements you make to the mill. ((bearings, preload washers, etc...))

874 bucks seems a bit spendy.

I guess I need to wait and see what your planned project is.

However,

You should be able to pick up 4 geckos at 114 per. And 3 500oz nema 23 steppers for 260+/-.

That's 716 bucks for what alot of people would argue is a better system. Assuming you don't specifically need the servos.

Or you can pick up a server kit from hobbycnc, currently listed at.

4 Axis 4AUPC Kit + (4) 200oz-in, 3v, 3A,
Dual Shaft Steppers
UNTIL SUPPLIES LAST
$229USD + $16 USA S/H

or

4 Axis HCNCPRO Kit + (4) 200oz-in, 3v, 3A,
Dual Shaft Steppers
$259USD + $16 USA S/H

I haven't looked at what the difference between the two kits really is. But 280 bucks looks a lot better than 874 to me.

Of course you should be able to get just the board and pick up the 500oz nema 23 motors off ebay.

And you'd still need the same parts that I listed above.

Don't get in a rush, spend alot of time reading and learning before you open your wallet. I have a good bit of stuff that I knee-jerk purchased and don't need.

[Burn]

Well, I am going to be CNCing a Taig 2019CR-ER with the ER16 spindle. Got it a couple days back but parts went back due to damage.

Money will be forthcoming sometime soon.
Taig included 3 couplers and the mounts needed- I am concerned about the mounts though, they seem flimsy. If other people are using them though I won't put up a fight.

Why did I choose servoes?
- Less heat
- More accurate
- Less lost steps than steppers

I will have the PC that will run Mach3 up in a while, I need to buy a bunch of stuff for it.

I will be milling copper and delrin mostly, I will more than likely not be machining iron.

Thanks for the help so far

[imserv]

> On 8/2/06, imservice wrote:
> >
> > Dear Corey,
> >
> > It depends on what you already have, such as software, etc. and what you
> > are trying to do. There are pictures and descriptions of what is in the kit,
> > it may be just what you need if you have some components already, sources
> > for other parts, and have a good understanding of the mechanics, or
> > electronics to do it yourself.
> >
> > For those that need more help, we also sell a Sys-4 that has the
> > components already assembled in a box. You should look at the difference
> > between what you get in the kit, and what you get in the Sys-4A, or a Sys-3a
> > (with software) to see what you need.
> >
> > The webstore has some of the components not in the kit, like power
> > supply, e-stop, etc., but not all the things from the systems.
> > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com
> >
> > Here are some links to compare, that will show you some of the
> > things you need in pictures and descriptions , and some have lists of the
> > parts:
> >
> > Sys 3A list:
> > http://imsrv.com/deskcnc/system.html
> >
> > Kit 4 A list
> >
> > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.as...PROD&ProdID=71
> >
> > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.as...rodID=116&HS=1
> >
> >
> > Info:
> > *http://www.imsrv.com/deskcnc/bench_top_cnc_systems.htm *
> >
> > NOTE: 2 pages - components purchase link
> > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.as...TS&Category=16
> >
> > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.as...ATS&Category=3
> >
> > Browse the store, and click pictures for more information.

If you have some specific questions we would be glad to help.

A minimal system requires a power supply, a kit-4, a CNC ready mill, and S&D software.

Fred Smith - IMService
http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby

[Burn]

Thanks Fred- I did read that email

I guess I was looking to get more specific, down to an itemized list of what I would need to buy in addition to the 4A 4-axis kit. Take the power supply for instance- What specs does it need to have, i.e. amperage and voltage.

Thanks,
Burn

[Deviant]

Well, I am going to be CNCing a Taig 2019CR-ER with the ER16 spindle. Got it a couple days back but parts went back due to damage.

Money will be forthcoming sometime soon.
Taig included 3 couplers and the mounts needed- I am concerned about the mounts though, they seem flimsy. If other people are using them though I won't put up a fight.

Why did I choose servoes?
- Less heat
- More accurate
- Less lost steps than steppers

I will have the PC that will run Mach3 up in a while, I need to buy a bunch of stuff for it.

I will be milling copper and delrin mostly, I will more than likely not be machining iron.

Thanks for the help so far

I'm sure someone else will chime in, but with the increased power of the steppers (200oz/500oz) there is less chance of running into missed steps. Heat shouldn't be a problem if your not abusing the steppers. The accuracy of the stepper should be good enough for the taig/mini mill. Someone with a taig, will have to provide you with the actually steps per 1inch that the steppers would provide.

I don't want to push you one way or the other.

Personally, I have a mini mill. I won 3 gecko 320's from this website in a contest. If I hadn't. I was going with steppers.

I purchased 3 250oz servos with 250 encoders for around 250 bucks. I'm building a 36v 20a power supply for it. Which is going to set me back around 100 bucks.

If I had gone with steppers, I could have used a cheaper 24v 10a power supply.

You also need to look at your budget and make sure that you have purchased all of your tools. I spent alot more for all the tools and accessories than I did for the for the mill. Keep that in mind.

As for your mounts, Taig is fairly well known and I haven't heard of any problems with their included motor mounts. I think they will be fine, as long as you don't do anything crazy.

Again, I can't stress enough. You need to decide 100% what your expectations are and how you want to get there.

I.e. 200ipm feeds and 0.0001 accuracy. I doubt you'll ever get that on the taig. Of course, I don't think I'll get it on my mini mill either.

But who knows I might be surprised at the accuracy of the taig. I looked a long time at getting one. I still do vs finishing the conversion on my mini mill.

(( Still might, just got a phat bonus..... *grins* Runs off to surf ebay...))

[Burn]

Thanks for the help

The main parts I am going to be machining aren't more than 5 inches long, but they do get detailed- Drilling holes in precise locations and such.

I would be more concerned with accuracy than speed, that's just the way I would base my decision off of.

If I do decide to go with steppers, Should I go with Xylotex or HobbyCNC?

[Burn]

Another quick addition- If I were to buy from Xylotex, I would be buying this kit- Correct?
http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit-425.htm

[Deviant]

I honestly don't know about that one. I've had more email conversations with hobbycnc, but that doesn't mean anything when you get down to it.

I see more people here running the Xylotex boards.

I'd email both places and ask them point blank, why you should buy their product over the other. The same with IMService.

I'm not saying you need to be an a$$ about it, but your the customer and should make as an informed decision as you possibly can.

With that said. I'd look on ebay for the 500oz steppers and email that person and ask what size power supply they suggest and what driving board. If 500oz motors end up not being strong enough, dunno why that would be. You could always use them to cut new motor plates and setup a reduction pulley system to give you more power at the cost of speed. Just something to keep in mind.

That's what the IMService system is doing.

[Deviant]

Another quick addition- If I were to buy from Xylotex, I would be buying this kit- Correct?
http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit-425.htm

That one would work... I don't really like the 24v 5a power supply offered. But if they are selling it as a kit, it must be working out.

Usually, I subscribe to the Tim the Toolman school of thought.... More Powah! *grunts*

But then my Woah-man, drags me back to the earth.

[Burn]

Okay, so would I be better off daisychaining 2 ATX Powersupplies?

What about the physical specs of the motors, is that gonna be enough?

[Burn]

Also, how many amps in a PSU would you reccomend if I were to buy one? Also, should it be regulated or unregulated?

[Deviant]

Sorry, was out mowing the yard.

I've never been a fan of using the computer power supplies, but people use them. I consider that more of a budget solution.

The power supply offered would be a more professional looking setup than using two atx power supplys.

Ideally it would be a linear power supply. Non-switched. And regulated.

However those can become spendy. That's why you see people building filtered but unregulated. I am by no means an electronics guru. Al or one of the other gurus would answer these questions better.

However,
Most of the people here are going with would be a toroidal based power supply. There are alot of threads on wrapping your own. However you could just purchase one as easily. That's what I did, but I'm an instant gratification kinda guy.

Once you have the transformer, then you'd need a bridge rectifier, filter capacitor and a bleed resister. Again that's all listed somewhere on this forum.

However for the ease of use and the package price. That power supply should work for what you need. If you see a decrease in performance when your running multiple axis at once. Then you may want to look at upgrading the power supply. From what I've seen and read, most people rarely run more than 2 axis at the same time.

[Deviant]

24v 10a should be plenty for what your doing.

At most, I'd say a 12a.

Again, Al or one of the other guys could answer that better.

As far as I understand it, you can't have too many amps. The motors just take what they need. However, there is certainly a breaking point where it isn't worth spending money anymore.

The kit lists the motors out at 2.8a/phase. I think they are 2 phases, but again I don't understand that 100%. So if hell frose over tomorrow and the meteors began striking the earth. That would be 22 amps for all 4 motors to turn at the same time. But from what I understand, you rarely if ever run more than 2 axis at the same time. And the wouldn't be pulling max amperage. I think I read from Marius that the rarely pull 80% which would be around 17.5amps to run all four or ~9amps to run 2.

Either way, hopefully Al will jump on the thread and clear the air.... Possibly tell me that I'm a moron and have no understanding of how the motors work.

I'd email the supplier and see what he suggests. It maybe that the 24v 5a switched psu in that kit above works great and never drops off when multiple axis are going.


On happy note.....

The Wifey told me to buy the taig. *grins*

Gonna have to research it some more and see how it really compares to the mini mill.


*edit*

For what it's worth.

http://www.xylotex.com/425ozin.htm

This link says that taig owners should stick to the 269oz, as the 425 are alot bigger than is what's suggested.

[Burn]

Hopefully this might explain what's going on with it:
http://www.xylotex.com/PowerAmp.htm

[ger21]

Jeff (owner of Xylotex) has said in the past that the board would really almost never draw more than 5amps, and usually, much less. But, as was mentioned, too many won't hurt. I picked up a 24V 12amp supply on Ebay for $10. You can use the same formula that Gecko recommends to choose how many amps you need. 2/3 of the motors rated current per motor. Since the Xylotex can only supply 2.5amps, use that.

2.5 x 2/3 = 1.66amps per motor.
5 amps for 3 motors, 7 amps for 4.
Note that if the motors are wired bipolar series, that you'll only need half the current using the fomula above, or 1/3 of 2.5amps per motor.

[Burn]

Yes, these motors are bipolar steppers.
These are the motors right here: http://www.xylotex.com/425ozin.htm

So would that mean I need ~3.5 Amps?

[ger21]

Yes, these motors are bipolar steppers.
These are the motors right here: http://www.xylotex.com/425ozin.htm

So would that mean I need ~3.5 Amps?

No, with 4 wire motors like those, use the 2/3 rule. With 8 wire motors, they can be wired both bipolar parallel, or bipolar series. Parallel uses double the current, and is equivalent to a 4 wire motor for the current calculation.