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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Uncategorised MetalWorking Machines > Face Mills? Which one to choose for a good finish on aluminum?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    160

    Face Mills? Which one to choose for a good finish on aluminum?

    Hi, I'm looking for a face mill somewhere between 2.5" and 3" diameter that'll give me the absolute best possible finish on aluminum. Cost and speed etc are secondary concerns, I'm mainly using this to just take a skim off the top of extruded stock and get rid of the giant calking gun marks. (chair)

    I looked at valenite but honestly I can't find those pentagon style inserts for the life of me. I found a few on mcmaster but they didn't have the finishing ones only the mediums.

    I know a few guys said hertel on here for alu, any suggestions on a specific model and / or insert that works well?

    Heres a Hertel one I was looking at:

    http://www.jlindustrial.com/catalog/...tosearchpage=Y

    Kennametal seems to make about 300 different ones and I can't find much for info online telling me what is for what... Just different angles and such... Thing is I can get kennametal inserts at a decent price all day long... but how many inserts is a 3hp bridgeport cnc really gonna burn up haha.

    which brings me to my next q... What geometry should I be looking for to give a decent finish on alu? Heres a few hundred kennametal ones:

    http://www.jlindustrial.com/endeca/s...Keyword+Search

    Any help? These are kinda spendy new so I'd rather not try a few haha before getting the one that works for me! :cheers:

  2. #2
    http://www.jlindustrial.com/catalog/...tosearchpage=Y

    they should have a 3 or 4 insert style 3" , that insert style is extremely aggressive ,
    for facing profiling and outright hogging with a killer finish , they have various sizes of this style ,
    i have not used anything better when it comes to aluminum , you won t be disappointed with it , lots of suppliers will give a demo tool to test , just have to ask

    i would recommend the 3 or 4 insert style , reason being the tool is carved out well around the insert area ,thus better chip clearance and removal

  3. #3
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    Nov 2005
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    160
    Doh, it told me that your catalog session expired. I'm assuming my links are broken as well then. What was it? Sorry... I don't normally use J&L they just had a decent selection of hertel stuff.

    Pete

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    4396
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  5. #5
    OSG Disc Cutter. Works great on AL and can run them at high RPM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by peter.blais
    Doh, it told me that your catalog session expired. I'm assuming my links are broken as well then. What was it? Sorry... I don't normally use J&L they just had a decent selection of hertel stuff.

    Pete
    try the link again works fine for me

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    160
    Hmm, I did get the link to J&L working, but tracking the part number over to kennametal leaves me thinking its a 1.5" diameter mill. I need at least 2.5" so I can do the majority of my parts in one pass.

    The seco / carbaloy website was pretty useless, they have tons of dimensions but not a single bit of information on which of their products is designed to work on what. Perhaps your supposed to just know that from the specs, but thats why I'm on here I have the same problem with kennametals website.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter.blais
    Hmm, I did get the link to J&L working, but tracking the part number over to kennametal leaves me thinking its a 1.5" diameter mill. I need at least 2.5" so I can do the majority of my parts in one pass.

    The seco / carbaloy website was pretty useless, they have tons of dimensions but not a single bit of information on which of their products is designed to work on what. Perhaps your supposed to just know that from the specs, but thats why I'm on here I have the same problem with kennametals website.

    That is called a sales ploy Did you check out www.mscdirect.com and www.use-enco.com they have sales all the time.
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    249
    I have a quick question, pertinent but sort of OT:

    Can someone direct me to a guide to buying face mills, i.e. what cutting angle and such? I would be primarily looking into facing Delrin and Copper C110.

    Oh, and I have heard good things about Lovejoy face mills
    http://www.lovejoytool.com/

  10. #10
    c110 can be faced with a 15 deg with no prob. Delrin can be faced with the same tool just watch for worping, you might need to take a light finish pass.

  11. #11
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    Try this site. The Industrial Press is the Publisher of the Machinerys' HandBook, and McGraw Hill

    http://www.industrialpress.com/en/Default.aspx
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by peter.blais
    Hmm, I did get the link to J&L working, but tracking the part number over to kennametal leaves me thinking its a 1.5" diameter mill. I need at least 2.5" so I can do the majority of my parts in one pass.

    The seco / carbaloy website was pretty useless, they have tons of dimensions but not a single bit of information on which of their products is designed to work on what. Perhaps your supposed to just know that from the specs, but thats why I'm on here I have the same problem with kennametals website.


    they will have the size that you need , it just the style that i was trying to show you

  13. #13
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    Nov 2005
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    Yea, in that style though, a 3" one has like 6 inserts or something. I don't have a big HP mill either so I could prob run it fine with half the inserts missing but that doesnt' help the room for chip you were talking about. On the other hand, like I said, I have a low (2hp) power spindle on an old machine so I have a feeling to get the finish I really am after its going to be a skim cut at 1ipt or something, not exactly hogging out huge chips left and right.

  14. #14
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    Nov 2005
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    What about this guy:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/HERTEL-FIX-PERFE...QQcmdZViewItem

    3 insert 2 3/4" diameter

  15. #15
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    For future reference try Modern Machine Shop Online.

    http://www.mmsonline.com/onlinetools/

    They have free calculators and tool selecters :cheers:
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  16. #16
    that looks pretty good , we have a 4" at work that is only 4 insert , i prefer the 90 deg because they are good for ruff profiling , 3" six flute will be good as well those tools are made to remove material at a fast rate

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    4826
    I kind of lucked into a 4" valenite high shear face mill. It uses 7 inserts, basically square shape in diamond orientation, using the corner of the insert as a wiper. Works pretty nice, I can buy inserts from Valenite for it without any trouble. So long as I keep the inserts only for use on aluminum jobs, it cuts nice for a very long time. 4 corners per insert to use.

    I've also used Iscar ADKT insert style facemills, and they will work nicely if you get the especially polished insert designed for aluminum milling. The wiper is also ground on these inserts to give a very sharp edge. 2 corners per insert to use.
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  18. #18
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    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung
    I kind of lucked into a 4" valenite high shear face mill. It uses 7 inserts, basically square shape in diamond orientation, using the corner of the insert as a wiper. Works pretty nice, I can buy inserts from Valenite for it without any trouble. So long as I keep the inserts only for use on aluminum jobs, it cuts nice for a very long time. 4 corners per insert to use.

    I've also used Iscar ADKT insert style facemills, and they will work nicely if you get the especially polished insert designed for aluminum milling. The wiper is also ground on these inserts to give a very sharp edge. 2 corners per insert to use.

    HFD,

    Are you refering to the Rhombic 80 Degree inserts? Those are great if you have a Lathe. You can buy a 100 degree 1" shank holder to use the other 4 sides for massive material removal in facing and turning. Providing their isn't a sharp shoulder.

    I have an Iscar 3/4" shank E75A-D1.00-W.75 with APKT inserts and that one is great for facing small parts on the manual mill.

    Between Valenite and Iscar Tooling, I still have a hard time deciding which one will work best in a given application. Good Tools :banana:
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    160
    How would you guys put kennametals or hertels compared to the valenites or iscars... I can get the kennametals local, and odviously thats what the local tool sales guy is going to be pushing as thats what he sells lol.

    I can get a valenite from msc, I'm just not sure if this particular model will work well for me. This is the one i've been eyeing and also a very popular one...

    http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=10863394

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    4396
    Quote Originally Posted by peter.blais
    How would you guys put kennametals or hertels compared to the valenites or iscars... I can get the kennametals local, and odviously thats what the local tool sales guy is going to be pushing as thats what he sells lol.

    I can get a valenite from msc, I'm just not sure if this particular model will work well for me. This is the one i've been eyeing and also a very popular one...

    http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=10863394

    That is a good face mill (shell mill) just make sure you can get inserts with a nice size radius like .015" or larger, application permitting of coarse. I find Iscar and Valenite tooling slightly better than Kennametal. You will get different opinions but the best one is your own
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

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