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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > Commercial CNC Wood Routers > Chinese Machines > Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***
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  1. #1
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    Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    Hey guys, i think this is my first post and just getting into this hobby. Will be working with small parts out of fiberglass, carbon fiber, 6061-7075 aluminum and I have never designed anything in CAD/CAM but reading out it and learning slowly. So I am stuck and hesitating on getting such a CNC machine. I don't want it to be a piece of junk that will take up space in my garage and will never use it ever again. It's not something where I can just pack it up and send it in for a quick refund like Amazon. Anyhow, I was skimming through all these pages and had my mind set on the Carving-CNC X4-800 series (Parallel) with the 4th axis option as I may need it eventually. I will only start out with flat 2D designs. Then perhaps move onto more of 2.5-3D? I like the Carving-CNC as they have the black box and router itself looks very clean with the closed lid cover in the front. I noticed SOME ebay sellers sell this type but the Box doesn't say YOOCNC nor don't have covers in the front? Are they the same internals or just copy of one another? I was also opened to the largest X6-1500 version but once again there are different variations with the 2 vertical side arms (is that what you call them?) have more angular cuts than most on eBay that also have the same specs (but it's labeled SX CNC or something). Some of the eBay sellers have them with the more angled side arms and most of them are just straight like their lower model machines. I really don't want to blow 1500-2000 on something I'm not sure of that's all. I will be mostly working on small items for R/C cars, trucks, etc. Is the X4-800 sufficient enough or do I have to spend more for the X6? Or just go with a real CNC mill (sherline or taig) which is much heftier and overkill for what I will be doing? Any ideas and comments are greatly appreciate and I have a lot more to read/learn.

    Cal75

  2. #2
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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    First of you have to learn CAD. If you don't master CAD you won't be able to learn the CAM part. It can be a tough learning curve, depending on how computer savy you are. If you want to play it save, then learn to draw something in CAD and the make a CAM file for it. Now you are ready to order the machine. Of course you could also order the machine and let that "force" you to learn CAD/CAM, but from your post i get the impression that you want to play it safe.

    I have owned the predecessor to the X6-1500-LPT and apart from a bad spindle, which they requested i send back to them, which is fair, but to expensive compaired to buying a new (located in Denmark) i have been really happy with the machine. I would imagine the next gen is even better.

    I mostly do aluminum up to 20mm in thickness (search for my name and you can see some picture in another post of the work i have done). It has run for well over approx 150 hours now almost entirely in aluminum and so far no sign of wear. I would go for the 6040, because even with this one it seems that i always need more space. Its also more easy to find scrap aluminum because it can take larger chuncks without one having to cut them, than you would on say a x800 series.

    I think that the machines on Ebay are similar to the ones on carving-cnc.com, even though they tell you otherwise. But i can't be sure and i must say that i have been happy to buy from them.

  3. #3
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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    Thanks for the reply Palmhoej! I am a very impatient person when it comes a new toy. Who isn't right? I am willing to learn CAD but I am also one of those people that procrastinate until I am forced to do something such as if I spent 2k on a new toy and no nothing with it. I did that with my vinyl cutter as well. I think I may wait and research more since I don't have extra funds this month to blow unless I sell some toys first. I should learn to design a simple item first. What CAD program do you suggest for a lazy middle age man like me start with? Thank you again for the tips!

    Cal

  4. #4
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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    I think you'll find the ones on Ebay are essentially all variants of the same machine, I couldn't even guess who came first, but so far as I'm aware, every machine I've seen Ebay are supplied with the crappy bluebox controllers, or the same crappy controller in a box to resemble the Carving CNC ones.

    Carving claim to sell the genuine YooCNC controllers, and from all accounts they seem to work as they should, but if you buy a machine off Ebay you'll get crappy controllers that may state YooCNC, but are vastly inferior clones in most cases.

    Generally the choices are:
    1 - Buy a machine from CarvingCNC that you are fairly assured will work out of the box
    2 - Buy a similar machine from Ebay, and then:
    1 - Replace the garbage blue box controller with a Gecko G540
    2 - Spend months trying to fix the garbage blue box controller, and in the end give up and buy a Gecko G540 controller.

    I own one and can well attest to this personally.

    cheers, Ian
    It's rumoured that everytime someone buys a TB6560 based board, an engineer cries!

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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    Ian-aarggh! haha can't stop laughing from your display name! Thanks for the reply. Did you get the eBay ones? I'm leaning into the carving-cnc as it just looks better and I've read some good things about them on the other threas (X6-1500). I don't think I'll need the 1.5kw or even the 0.8kw spindle for what I will be doing? The thickest part is perhaps 6-7mm aluminum plates (for model cars). I have a sherline mini lathe already so turning stuff is manual and not CNC. I do have fascination with precision as I try to be a perfectionist. I was a fine art major This is only for myself and not large production runs so would a small spindle of 230W do the job? I would like to save as much as I can so I was wondering if it is NOT sufficient, I should get the X4-800. Say that if I got the 3040z+4D model...would I be able to update to a 0.8kw spindle without touching that controller box? Thanks again guys!

    Cal

  6. #6
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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    At the very least I wouldn't consider not getting the 800w spindle/VFD. You'll love it. 1.5kW is better, but may be a little too heavy for the standard 6040 compared to the 800w.

    There is just no comparison between using wood routers, and spindles for cnc. Spindles beat them hands down for all general use for noise, value, power, repeatability, reliability, etc.

    I bought my 6040 off Ebay some time back, before there was the huge amount of info there is now about them, and after wasting around 2-3 months trying to get it to work half reliably, bought a G540 and then immediately kicked myself for not doing it sooner after using it the first time.

    When people tell you they are good, I can't re-inforce just how good they are! They are like a breath of fresh air after struggly with the garbage blue box controllers. I have never, ever heard of anyone who bought a G540, regretting their purchase.

    cheers, Ian
    It's rumoured that everytime someone buys a TB6560 based board, an engineer cries!

  7. #7
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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    I can testify to the Gecko drivers. I am a mechatronic engineer and i use them in all projects requiring steppers. I was ready to buy the G540 card to replace the chinese stepper drivers and breakout-board on my 6040Z-S80 when they failed. But they just haven't, so i could not justify fixing something that was not broke.

    I would also advocate for the 1500w. I am mostly doing aluminum and when i have to drill 6mm holes with a drillbit i need to go down to the calculated speed for that bit, usually around 6k rpm and peck drilling 1 mm. This is low and not in the spindles high torque curve, which means that stalling might be a problem on an 800w. Someone with an 800w could maybe answer this?

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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    Guys, I have some good news and some bad news So for the bad news, I won't be getting any of the router I mentioned.....BECAUSE I had received a Sherline 2000 8-Direction vertical mill instead. Since we were talking about CNC, I really want that function. Do any of you have experience with this Sherline Mill? Sorry, I know I should be posting on the other threads but since we're getting into CNC, just wanted some insight. I do not want to spend $200 plus for the motor mounts. Am I required to buy the CNC motor mounts for this mill? Are there universal ones? I would like to get the Gecko like most people have said great things about it. Motors I can live with the weakest ones? 150-160oz/in? since the factory Sherline CNC kit has weak motors so I can match it due to budget reasons. I got the 2000 Mill from a friend (hand me down) as it helped him out and he helped me. Let me know what your thoughts are fellas!

    Thanks again!
    Cal

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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    Congratulations on your buy. Try to source ebay, there might be something there. I was also looking at the sherline, but the working area was to small and the material removal rate are much higher on the 6040 with the 1500w spindle. On the other hand i can't use any material tougher than aluminum, were you should be able to do some steel parts. Tools of the trade, i guess

    For easiness go for the Geckos.

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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    Sorry, now i actually remembered why i didn't opt for the sherline. It has threaded leadscrews for motion. This means that there are a little "play" or backlash. when going from one direction to another. On my Optimum BF20 its like 0.5mm. Its a manual mill so i just have to remember this backlash and i can the compensate for it. If i were to retrofit this mill to a CNC i would need a kit like this:

    http://www.cncfusion.com/images/G0704/Kit/SDC10448.JPG

    This use recirculating ballbearings and have a zero anti-backlash nut, meaning no play when turning directions. This is the same that the 6040 routers have.

    It is, however, possible to compensate for this backlash in the software (Mach3 has this option), but needles to say this is not going to be as precise as not having to compensate. Especially if making a round geometry. This was what i remember reading, when i researched. But try asking in the Sherline forum. They know for sure.

    If this is an issue it might not be an issue for you, since you are in the learning process and precision might be a secondary.

    Sincerely Kristoffer.

  11. #11
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    Re: Carving-CNC models vs Numerous eBay models ***CONFUSED***

    Thanks again for your advice Palmhoej/Kristoffer! I think after I get the basic idea of using CNC, I will still opt for one of the carving-CNC machines once I save up again. I will try posting in the Sherline forums! Take care and perhaps see ya there too!

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