[asuratman]

Hi,
As in your statement:"Does require an encoder at spindle speed.". Do you use 1 more axis controller for this encoder? Do you use the same type as on other controller? How big your DC spindle motor? Thanks. Asuratman.

[FPV_GTp]

Yes, purchased a program from www.imserv.com, called FG4L. covers all US and metric plus odd ball..Fred Smith developed this really easy threading program that requires you to "fill in the blanks" hit the button and the G code is developed..Does require an encoder at spindle speed. Note: I'm using Desk CNC, and that program was written for it,but call them at 248-486-3600 to see if other controllers will work.
I did use the G code generated by this program,edited and transferred to a friends turning center and he commented it was better than his high dollar program, he was kinda bummed out .

The ability to thread was one reason I elected to convert the lathe to CNC, as I'm unable to stand any time at all, and manual threading requires you be right there !

Tooling and set up are still very important, CNC or manual. The above link to imserv. also has a short tutorial on threding..

Good Luck !

Adobe (old as dirt )

Hi Adobe

nice working your doing on the lathe coversion

just that link u posted is not going to the right section , thought i would let u know

try this : http://www.imsrv.com/cgi-bin/discus/....cgi?pg=topics this takes you to the index of the
forum and the link connection is www.imsrv.com


It is interesting reading on the threading part , as i would like to be able to cut internal and external threads on my lathe converiosn to

keep up the good work


cheers

[Adobe Machine]

Asuratman: The spindle encoder only reads rpm to the desk CNC motion control card, which then coordinates the Z and X axis for threading or grooving etc.The lathe motor is a 10 hp 2 speed AC 3 ph motor. With the 2 speed motor ,plus 16 gear changes ,there are 32 possible speeds. I do not think I will use a DC motor or inverter to control speed as I do with my Tree mill conversion unless that becomes absolutley necessary.

Thanks for the inquirey

FPV GTp: Yes I should have said when you get to imserv, then click on quick lathe. That program also has quick turn,thread ( inside and out )drill and groove. All you do is fill in a couple of blanks and presto, the G code is written..Pretty standard G code, like I said we tested on my friends turning center and every function worked .They have a free down load, try it and see if that is what you need for your conversion.

How is your conversion going ? Also I have ment to ask you about your 4.0 Litre Turbo "Falcon" motor..is that like a Ford Falcon 6 cylinder in line ? Or a
V 6 ? What kind of boost pressure are you uising to generate that much H.P. ?
Alcohol or gas ? 1000 hp for 250 CID is just really screaming !Hope we get to see it when we travel to Aus. next year..

Adobe (old as dirt)

[dcprecision]

Your machine is really nice and will make a great CNC.

About 15 years ago, I obtained a Clausing hand screw lathe that I converted into an automatic. At that time no easy pc based cnc software and hardware was available at reasonable cost. After cranking this guy manually for 6 months, automation was formost on my mind.

My simple solution was to use air cylinders and solenoid valves for motion, add a bar feed and install Small hydraulic cylinders to provide axis dampening and speed control.

A small control box actuates movement. It consists of 4 micro switches and 7 cam wheels. The cam wheels are interchangable and can be moved for different parts by sliding them into position with the micro switches..... production cycle is set by stepped pulleys and gear motor with an o-ring drive belt. Rate is 1 to 3 parts per minute.

This guy has probably produced over 100,000 parts since its inception. It has worked so well that I have just now begun to think about changing to servo control.

[Adobe Machine]

WOW ! Is that cool ! Where there is a will there is a way! That shows innovation, determination and skill..love it... dc precision it is people like you that made this country great.. I often look at old patents and machinery and realize what went before us, and your machine is a good example of that . Very professionally done..can I ask what you produce with the unit ?
More pictures would be ok too !

Adobe (old as dirt )

[dcprecision]

Thanks for the compliment.

I have a small woodworking tool mfg business and use this lathe to make a special brass threaded stud, dowel pins and shaft collars. It is pretty much capable of making any part that can be made on a hand screw machine but I pretty much tailored it to my specific parts needs. If you like this one, please check out my CNC burgmaster in the photo gallery. Search dscf1440.jpg in the photos section. Also check out my post under benchtop mills "Not Excactly a Benchtop Mill".. This unit is another of my hand built conversions and I think the only one like it in existence.

[HUUPHUC]

Hello and Good luck toyou!
huuphuc

[asuratman]

Hi Adobe,
Thanks for your explainations on encoder at spindle . I will start to retrofit my lathe soon. Asuratman.

[FPV_GTp]

FPV GTp: Yes I should have said when you get to imserv, then click on quick lathe. That program also has quick turn,thread ( inside and out )drill and groove. All you do is fill in a couple of blanks and presto, the G code is written..Pretty standard G code, like I said we tested on my friends turning center and every function worked .They have a free down load, try it and see if that is what you need for your conversion.

How is your conversion going ? Also I have ment to ask you about your 4.0 Litre Turbo "Falcon" motor..is that like a Ford Falcon 6 cylinder in line ? Or a
V 6 ? What kind of boost pressure are you uising to generate that much H.P. ?
Alcohol or gas ? 1000 hp for 250 CID is just really screaming !Hope we get to see it when we travel to Aus. next year..

Adobe (old as dirt)


hi Adobe Machine

My conversion is at a stand still as I'm trying to figure out which electronics to use and software.

Yes there are guys downunder making well over 1400 bhp out of a Ford 4 liter inline 6 cylinder engines 24 valves ( 4 per cylinder , twin camsafts with vairiable cam timing ) and not to mention huge turbos hanging of the end of the engines

Some of these street driven cars weigh 1700kgs plus driver and running high nine second passes down the quarter mile.

Stock out of the factory the FPV_GTp runs 13.9 and i ran mine the quickest was 14.2 but i babyed it along the car weighs 1820kgs with all the options plus me another 120kgs , mine GTp is a 5.4 liter quad cam Modular V8 the same engine you guys have in ur american ford cars.

The Typhoons F6 stock runs 13.9 seconds also out a inline 6 cylinder turbo 4liter



Hi asuratman's , that is a nice setup of your lathe.

cheers

[Adobe Machine]

cool..my boat ran 6.79 ( alcohol hydro) , same year that some "Down Under" guys came to the World Finals at Firebird ( Phoenix) and ran an Alcohol Flatbottom..did real good too ( shipped the boat here from Aus.! )

Little supercharged '34 coupe ran 10s last year with nitrous..( one you have pics of ) but really runs nice on the street too.Still a long way to go on that project.being in a wheel chair sucks for getting things done.

Ready to begin on the Z axis Thursday, is much easier than the X axis was
Recieved the new DRO Monday as I like to use the DRO to campare with where the Software thinks it is..will post pictures.

Thanks..very intresting !

Adobe (old as dirt )

[Adobe Machine]

I got a break today, as the "skid steer" we rented to move some decorative rock around the yard took a hike in 10 minutes of use,so while waiting for their repaiman,I got to proceed with the lathe conversion.

Pratt Whitney machined a set of very handy "T" slots in the back of the machine for their Taper attachment. As mentioned before, I checked for parallel to the square ( rear ) way..Believe me, it is parrallel to .0003 ( best I could measure) man those old machinests knew their stuff..Had a friend come over with his super duper lazer measurement "do hicky" ( I could buy a lot of production tooling for what that thingy cost him, the lease payment for the system is a Porshe payment ! ) )and he said it was withen .0002, horizantle and verticle.. 4 cervasas and I'm happy !

Started with the Fixed Angular Bearing Mount spacer block. Cut a nice billit of 7073 " scrap" (LOL) to withen .040 of the final measurements..I was a little worried maybe should have been .060 as that is only .020 for each side to square..but last pass on the Tree Mill cleaned every thing up on all sides.
Cleaned up the vise, and started the Drill sequence,counter sink and other:
1) Attachment to the Lathe, using 1/2 13 allen head fastners. I wanted this real tight, so I used a 1/2 inch new jobber drill for the four positions, then reamed only .001..Had to push the 4 new fastners in,real tight.
2) Counter sink for the 1/2 Allen's (same drill program, change Z- only ) using my Iscar 3/4 Insert Mill..what an imrpovement over just a regular Carbide mill ( no more trips to the sharpen shop for this size, just change inserts ! ). This gives just .010 clearence on the Diameter ( bolt head size is .740 +) so everthing has to be alinged correctly.Some one said that 2 things will not fit in the same space at the same time (no matter how many times I've tried ). All fit, thanks to CNC.
3) Drill for 4, 3/8-16 "jack bolts" to change the plates relationship to square, only if needed..just a thing I do to insure some adjustability in "case" ( lots of those in life )
4) Using the same drill program and changing Z-, counter sink .600, using a 1/2" end mill.
5) Drill program for the Rockford fixed Angular Bearing Block ( 4 ea 3/8 16,
through , no blinds) I use an "0" drill instead of a 5/16 drill, seem to get better threads, and these threads must withstand torque and lots of cycles.
I do not use the CNC Mill to tap, I have a hand tapper and do not break taps off in almost compleated pieces..maybe I will get better at tapping into deep Alloy Aum.with out ever breaking a tap, but just not now.
6) Deburr, break edges, chamfer all drilled and tapped holes, top and bottom. Use 600 grit on both critile sides with blueing to check for high spots.
7) Assemble, lightley, no Torque, no hard pins , untill all parts for this axis are done and assembled.
Picture 1 and 2 : Cutting the billit 7073 T-6 to size. This big ole saw saves me lots of time, just set uo correctly and hit the lever ( auto feed ) I'm running 4500 SFM with medium table speed and lots of coolant.
Picture 4 and 5 : Using my retro fit Tree Mill to surface all sides in MDI.
Picture 6 and 7: Counter sink for the 1/2 -13 Allen Head Bolts using the Iscar Insert mill.
Picture 8 : Drilling with the "o" drill for 3/8 -16 threads, eight locations.
Picture 9 : Partial assembly, you can see the "Jack bolts " explained above.
I had to cut .170 off the 1/2 -13 bolts to make sure they would not dead head into the lathe body.
Picture 10 :closer photo of above
Pictures 11,12 and last : Mounted loosley in the approxamate final position.

Next: Mount for the Simple Radial Bearing mount the back to turing and threading the hard stuff..

Adobe ( old as dirt )

[dcprecision]

Hi Adobe,

Things are looking really great with your project.. THere is no substitute for old American Iron when it comes to manual machines... Where did it all go wrong,,, we taught the world and have lost most of it... The Japanese are the worlds copycats... Invent it here in the USA,, steal all the sweat and knowlege,, put a little time in to make it just a bit better and take the business.. Now the Chinese are emulating them.

I noticed in your last posting you were talking about broken taps.. I always roll thread aluminum parts rather than cut the thread.. I believe that it produces a stronger and more precise thread and tap breakage is almost impossible.

Dennis

[Trapper14]

my VMC at work can break form taps just fine haha, but rolled threads are indeed much stronger, and pretty

[Adobe Machine]

I guess maybe you could teach this old dog ( me ) some new tricks..Some where in the foggy mind I remember that it took a special machine (like a modified Swiss screw machine )to roll or form tap.. How do they set up a V-mill or a VMC to roll threads ?

I do use spiral taps almost exclusive in Alum. , they work much better than regular taps, but still have the possibility of breaking under power.And since I'm not in production just bite the bullet and use my hand tapper.

Occasionally I would bid some jobs a little cheap for "fillers" to keep every one working during slow times..I remember one job that had eleventy one thousand holes to tap ( seemed like ) and the part to drill and tap had a least 3-4 hrs machine time before tapping.After screwing up three or 4 pieces due to broken taps ( we could not get them out, customer would not accept next size up ) it did not take to much math to figure out we could hand tap a lot of holes compared to scraping the part.

dcprecision: Your right, I do not like to even think about our loss of the Machine Tool Industry and Manufacturing in the USA..My primary theory is that a lot of people just got greedy, The CEO's, the stock holders, even the unions...it became clear we could not COMPETE in a world market and they beat us . MY heart is sick over Ford Motor Co.s troubles right now..To think that another Amercian Co might be controlled by an overseas corp. just really hurts... And yes, I did buy my wife a Kia Sorento, It was better than any mid-priced, mid sized 4 wheel drive etc , auto we could find.The fit and finish is excellent,its a pleasrue to drive, fuel economy is good considering its a V6 and 4 wheel drive .Then there is the warrenty, 100,000 miles on drive train parts...Being retired and on a fixed income, we have to look at cars as "keepers", we would rather travel and see the US and maybe some countries overseas , rather than support a car. I do have a F250, with the diesel engine, this is my last Truck, so it needs to last a long time. Will say I'm very pleased with this truck..Have had one small warrenty incident, no other.Did buy a power programmer and man did that wake up the engine. If I can just keep my foot out of it, gets excellent ( 22 +) mpg. Guess things will just have to sort out..hope we are not leaving our grand children a mess.

A long time friend bought a Fadel 2030 with a very expensive 4th axis..By the time he tooled up his investment was $100,000. plus..I was really impressed with the machine, but he has a 4 page list of problems over the last 3 years.
The big problem being machine time lost ( and some mad customers) Most of the problems have been quality related, and some of the jerks sent out to fix the machine when it broke down. He won't buy another one.In looking through this forum looks like he was not alone..

Adobe (old as dirt)

[dcprecision]

I try to keep the faith and have purchased 5 new ford and lincoln products over the last 10 yrs... I think part of the problem is as you stated being the greedy managment resting on their laurels and sweet union deals, but the real problem was and still is with the LAWYERS.... Workers comp claims costs stifeling competition because of wholesale fraud and abuse, healthcare costs out of control because of malpractice.. States and the fed lawyers taking a punative tax attitude toward business,,(political lawyers) and also the lazy instant gratification attitude promoted by todays media exposure.. I could go on and on but enough of this...........

So far as roll taps are concerned,, they are forming rather than cutting taps and work by displacing metal. They work in any softer ductile material.. The hole drilled is larger than the hole for a cut thread because the material flows inward to form the thread. Appearance is similar to a conventional tap but without the gullets and typically have a somewhat triangular shape. Usage is identical to a conventional tap but but without the associated chips to jamb and cause problems. Tapping speeds are typically 50 to 70% of drilling speed.. I do a 3/8-16 at 815 rpm and a #6 at 1700. I stated in a previous post that it was fairly impossible to break a tap and I do believe that to be true with the exception being that if you bottom one out in a blind hole it will definitly break off. I have probably tapped well over 250,000 holes at high speed without a single tap ever breaking because it jambed. I use # 6 - # 8 = 1/4-20 and 3/8-16 sizes..

I can post drill sizes for various threads if anyone is interested.

[Adobe Machine]

dcprecision: Is that a rigid tap set up, or a soft collet ? and who is the supplier..yes would like drill sizes !
Thanks

Adobe (old as dirt )

[dcprecision]

I do all tapping with Tapmatic tapping heads including those done on my cnc machines. I have one mill that has instantaneous reverse capability and do tap with a rigid configuration at low rpm on it manually on unique or non production parts.

These "thread forming" taps are available from any major supplier such as MSC, Mc Master, and Enco. I like the Greenfield and Cleveland brands best. I usually purchase the bottoming variety for most work because you dont have cuttings in the way.. Keep in mind that holes must be free from metal chips before tapping.

I will post drill sizes later today.

[dcprecision]

Hi Adobe,

I have posted a table of roll tap drill sizes under the General Metal Working Machines heading as a PDF attachment.

Dennis

[Adobe Machine]

Thanks from a lot of us, I'm going to buy a couple of sizes and try them ( you know, one of them gotta have tools ? )


Adobe ( old as dirt )

[Adobe Machine]

Onward with the long (Z) axis: The simple Z axis end mount was essentially the same mount as the Fixed Angular end, except there are only 2 tapped
( 3/8-16) block mount holes, but still used 4 ( 1/2-13) adaptor mounts to the machine. I was able to use all of the same G code generated by Vector CAD/CAM as the 1st mount, I just killed two holes. I did not put any jack bolts in, as I felt that any correction needed will come from the fixed end, if needed.
You can see the machine to blocks relationship in the pictures. The blocks are not torqued or pinned at this point, I plan to mount a mag base dial indicator with the Z axis shaft mounted and the ball nuts installed and "track" the shaft through its entire distance after all is installed. After tracking and adjusting, will torque to specs, run the machine for awhile , then pin all bearing mounts.I have, in the past, pinned too early, only having to bow down to the mistake God three times..and other.

Since the Z axis ball screw is so long, I have found that it is imperitive that the other end of the shaft is stablized , not just the chuck end., and since the Soft jaws I made are alum., it is even more mandatory, as the shaft will tend to whip and move, making a clean, accurate shaft end impossible.
For lack of a better word, I call it a lathe" Butt Plug". I turn the O.D. to the lathe shaft I.D. and bore the center to the shaft I'm turning , in this intance, it is .631. The Butt Plug is an interferance fit, and I just tap it in, then insert the shaft I'm turning. You would be suprised how well this helps center the turned shaft. The pictures illustrate how the plug fits.

Next is turning the ends of the long Z shaft..This is just hard stuff, can only take .050 DOC at slow..( boring..)just takes time, if you get anxious, you will
scrap it, or end up with a mess, and possibly broken tooling. The specs for the bearing mount shaft area is in tenths, and you want to split those specs as close as possible for a proper fit and correctly performing machine.

Picture 1. Finished and installed simple end bearing mount. Note: None of the mounts are torqued to specs, or pinned.

Picture 2. Longer view of above to show relationship on the machine.

Picture 3. This is the fixed end,to show how the shaft will fit.

Picture 4. Found some more 6061 scrap round stock and turned to I.D. of lathe drive shaft, plus .0005, nice interferance fit, then bored to .6315.

Picture 5. "Butt Plug" installed, with shaft .

Picture 6. Closer picture of the plug and shaft.

Picture 7. Start on turning one end of the shaft.

Next: Finish the shaft, mount and track.build the ballnut mount to carriage and scrape in to eliminate bind.

Adobe (old as dirt)