[acannell]

I bought this rotary table for $475 shipped. Its chinese and it actually has a serial number, instruction manual, and a company name with a website. And it does appear to have about 30 arc seconds of backlash. Ive measured a few things about it with a tenths indicator and so far I'm very impressed.

It would appear Tormach is buying this table, relabeling it, adding the motor and adding about $1400 to the price youd pay for those parts. Remember, were not talking about re-engineering it. The rotary table has fantastic specs out of the box, all you need is a bracket and a motor, and a controller. You can get stepper or brushless servomotor controllers for less than $100, and a motor to match for about the same. Machine your own bracket. Tada..now you have the tormach $2100 4th axis tilting rotary table kit for $700.

I am surprised nobody makes a kit already to do just that.

I bought my table from utoole.com. They have a bunch of accessories for it too, and yes, they are much cheaper than the ones on tormachs site, and look identical.

Guess what. I'm going to be converting mine to CNC. Whatever I figure out will almost certainly be transferable to a tormach. Whos in?

[daniellyall]

there are a couple of good Chinese out fit out there you just struck a good one you are more than likely correct about tormach buying from the same place but work out your time for striping cleaning rebuilding the table it will probably work out the same as buying one with a guarntee

[mioduz]

I don't know why tormach didn't put a stepper on the tilting access of that table. Probably because they ran out of space of the i/o board. But you could, if daring, supply another and run 5axis. I wouldn't know how to program it, but it would be cool.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[tmarks11]

there are a couple of good Chinese out fit out there you just struck a good one you are more than likely correct about tormach buying from the same place but work out your time for striping cleaning rebuilding the table it will probably work out the same as buying one with a guarntee

I am with acannell on this one.

Tormach's 4th axis' are overpriced by about 100%, as the conversion is pretty easy to accomplish. It would be one thing if there was unique engineering involved in the manufacturing, and the basic products weren't available elsewhere or if Tormach was selling a device built from the ground up as a high precision cnc component. But ALL of their 4th axis are readily available everywhere, with the basic (non-cnc) unit selling for about 30% of their price. Throwing on a stepper, mounting bracket, and flexible shaft coupling shouldn't add $500-1000.

6" Tormach super spacer: $1425
Same super-spacer from utoole: $445

6" Tormach rotary table: $834
6" phase 2 rotary table from Enco: $317 (although you see these on sale for $260 all the time)

I think Tormach's mill and lathe are good values, as they are built from the ground up to be cnc machines, and there is limited competition (all of which is similarly priced). But their price for a converted non-cnc component is a bit over the top.

But you could, if daring, supply another and run 5axis. I wouldn't know how to program it, but it would be cool.

And there in lies the problem.

Price of tilting 6" table: $475
Price to convert it to cnc (4th + 5th axis), including drivers: $500
Price of CAM software to actually spit out 5th axis g-code: priceless (ok, just $12k, but might as well be priceless)

[Don Clement]

I got my money's worth in buying the Tormach 8" Rotary Table with my Tormach 1100 six years ago. There are always those who find some used bargain and claim to save money by rolling their own CNC someday. In the meantime my Tormach is making real parts making me real money in real time. BTW SprutCAM, bought with the 1100 and 8" RT, supports the 4th axis was ~$1K.

Don Clement

[tmarks11]

BTW SprutCAM, bought with the 1100 and 8" RT, supports the 4th axis was ~$1K.

My comment was related to CAM software that would support that 5th axis capability. I think that is where the price starts skyrocketing.

[acannell]

I am with acannell on this one.

Tormach's 4th axis' are overpriced by about 100%, as the conversion is pretty easy to accomplish. It would be one thing if there was unique engineering involved in the manufacturing, and the basic products weren't available elsewhere or if Tormach was selling a device built from the ground up as a high precision cnc component. But ALL of their 4th axis are readily available everywhere, with the basic (non-cnc) unit selling for about 30% of their price. Throwing on a stepper, mounting bracket, and flexible shaft coupling shouldn't add $500-1000.

6" Tormach super spacer: $1425
Same super-spacer from utoole: $445

6" Tormach rotary table: $834
6" phase 2 rotary table from Enco: $317 (although you see these on sale for $260 all the time)

I think Tormach's mill and lathe are good values, as they are built from the ground up to be cnc machines, and there is limited competition (all of which is similarly priced). But their price for a converted non-cnc component is a bit over the top.


And there in lies the problem.

Price of tilting 6" table: $475
Price to convert it to cnc (4th + 5th axis), including drivers: $500
Price of CAM software to actually spit out 5th axis g-code: priceless (ok, just $12k, but might as well be priceless)

And just to add to your nice list:

Tormach 6" tilting rotary table 4th axis with motor and driver: $2100 (not including shipping)

Yantai 6" TSK160 tilting rotary table (same one): $475 shipped from utoole.com

Difference: $1700

I'm thinking I can whip up a motor, driver, and bracket for alot less than $1700

Btw, I did take mine apart to clean it..takes about 20 minutes.

The "tilt" handle has a vernier, but I'm not sure how precise the gearing is. I would guess its not as accurate as the table worm. So to use it as a CNC, you might need to have the encoder on the tilt and so a closed loop setup based on that. Also, its 9 degrees per rotation not 4 like the table.

4th or 5th axis pre-positioning type programming could easily be done by hand and you'd get a ton of functionality even for simple operations..suddenly you can do undercuts or features at angles that would have required complex and time consuming setups or would be impossible without a rotary axis.

True 4th axis or 5th axis continuous machining is another story though, but we are comparing apples to apples here by leaving the software part out of it.

[acannell]

I got my money's worth in buying the Tormach 8" Rotary Table with my Tormach 1100 six years ago. There are always those who find some used bargain and claim to save money by rolling their own CNC someday. In the meantime my Tormach is making real parts making me real money in real time. BTW SprutCAM, bought with the 1100 and 8" RT, supports the 4th axis was ~$1K.

Don Clement

We're not talking about a used bargain, were talking about the exact same rotary table Tormach sells, but for 30% less, and still brand new. Adding a motor and controller isnt exactly rolling your own, theres hardly anything to figure out except to design a bracket. Personally Id use that remaining $1400 to buy some more tools so I can make more parts and more money.

[Don Clement]

True 4th axis or 5th axis continuous machining is another story though, but we are comparing apples to apples here by leaving the software part out of it.

Really! SprutCAM supports 5th axis machining SprutCAM — 5 Axis Continuous

Don Clement

[acannell]

Really! SprutCAM supports 5th axis machining SprutCAM — 5 Axis Continuous

Don Clement

Yes really, this isnt a discussion about sprutcam, its about the price difference between the tormach labeled rotary tables and the exact same one from utoole.com.

[acannell]

Tmarks11: Are you planning on converting one of these tables to CNC?

Because I am, and it would be REALLY awesome to get more than one head together on doing so..if we can get a couple more Tormach or really any machine users that want to convert the tilting/rotary to CNC (or even the just rotary one, I'm not planning on doing the tilt cnc any time soon), that could be some productive collaboration!

[johnedward]

I get it now, you don't want to pay for the tormach engineering and testing for a finished unit and are trolling here for help to design the mounts for free. Do it yourself if you can and see if the trial and error method and time spent doing so is worth the money saved. People can buy the tormach unit, plug it in and get right to work while you try to figure it out. Just because it may appear to be the same cosmetically doesn't mean it hasn't been improved mechanically by tormach.

[Don Clement]

Yes really, this isnt a discussion about sprutcam, .

Tmarks11 wrote: "My comment was related to CAM software that would support that 5th axis capability. I think that is where the price starts skyrocketing." and "Price of CAM software to actually spit out 5th axis g-code: priceless (ok, just $12k, but might as well be priceless)"

acannell wrote: "True 4th axis or 5th axis continuous machining is another story though, but we are comparing apples to apples here by leaving the software part out of it."

With trolling uninformed statements like these its no wonder.

Don Clement

Perhaps they are really Novocaine dudes in disguise trying once again to copy tormach engineering work.

[acannell]

Tmarks11 wrote: "My comment was related to CAM software that would support that 5th axis capability. I think that is where the price starts skyrocketing." and "Price of CAM software to actually spit out 5th axis g-code: priceless (ok, just $12k, but might as well be priceless)"

acannell wrote: "True 4th axis or 5th axis continuous machining is another story though, but we are comparing apples to apples here by leaving the software part out of it."

With trolling uninformed statements like these its no wonder.

Don Clement

How is this trolling? Are you insane? You're the troll. Look at the title of the thread. This discussion is about the cost of rotary tables. The cost of CAM software doesn't change between rotary tables, last time I checked. Dont you see the logic of how that makes it irrelevant, or at best, a footnote? Do you compare the cost of solidworks versus alibre when you are shopping for a mill? Do you know what "apple to apples" means?

[Don Clement]

Ignorance is bliss to a troll.

Don Clement

[mioduz]

I get it now, you don't want to pay for the tormach engineering and testing for a finished unit and are trolling here for help to design the mounts for free. Do it yourself if you can and see if the trial and error method and time spent doing so is worth the money saved. People can buy the tormach unit, plug it in and get right to work while you try to figure it out. Just because it may appear to be the same cosmetically doesn't mean it hasn't been improved mechanically by tormach.

Another note here is the support they offer. I received my low profile 8“ table and had some issues with the brake setup. It's a long story but the face of the table was pulling in and out of the casting. Long story short tormach replaced it totally free of charge including shipping. The discovered afterward that the brake was just not set correctly, but noted that since this fix was not documented that they would cover all costs for replacing. Awefully good customer support. The fact that I can call and talk to someone with issues is worth alot to me.

On the flip side yes they do charge too much, but it's not by a factor that you guys are talking about. I don't mind paying a little extra for a good product that will make me money and that they stand behind 100%

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[acannell]

I get it now, you don't want to pay for the tormach engineering and testing for a finished unit and are trolling here for help to design the mounts for free. Do it yourself if you can and see if the trial and error method and time spent doing so is worth the money saved. People can buy the tormach unit, plug it in and get right to work while you try to figure it out. Just because it may appear to be the same cosmetically doesn't mean it hasn't been improved mechanically by tormach.

The tormach table is a relabled chinese table, theres no Tormach "re-engineering" in it at all. The chinese table has 30 arc seconds spec, which I have verified. If you have a tormach and consider making a bracket for a motor a big undertaking, maybe you should expedite your learning of machining and design skills. There is no way Tormach is taking these tables apart and regrinding any surfaces, only to come up with the same specifications in the end.

So let me get this straight, geniuses, I'm "TROLLING" by letting people with tormachs know they can get save $1400 and have a quick and easy project to get a 4th axis table? SERIOUSLY? I'm not helping anyone out or discussing an interesting project? Look at yourself in the mirror, you are one hell of a fanboy nerd.

[acannell]

Ignorance is bliss to a troll.

Don Clement

You bet it is, you'd rather be ignorant of saving $1400 then know about it and have your little feelings hurt.

[mioduz]

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[acannell]

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Yes it did, its always nice to post on CNCZONE and see the anal dweebs come out of the woodwork (not you). My question would be, is there a machining forum that is more focused on machining than it is on feelings? Ive yet to find one