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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4

    CNC for 3D Sculpture

    Hello. I'm a 3D artist (modeler/animator). I've been taken by the idea of turning my models (mostly fantastic creatures) into miniature figurine sculpures that I could then cast. I would also like to carve reliefs of my models as architectural accents, and as art pieces. I've been considering building a 3-Axis router for this purpose.

    Unfortunately, my wife feels thinks it won't work, and that it will be just a waste of money.

    Does anyone have any experience in this arena? Is there anyone who would be willing to try machining one of my models out of wax, plastic, resin or foam?

    Here is the model I am working on as a test run.
    http://cleancg.com/forums/index.php?topic=93.0

    Also, is there much demand in the CNC community for artistic 3d modelers or is it all industrial application?

  2. #2
    A 3 axis router won't make complex figures like your (nice!) minotaur, and even a 4 axis will have trouble with the more slender parts.

    You can do this easily with rapid prototyping methods such as 3D plastic printing or stereolithography. New machines are pretty expensive, but I've seen used ones on Ebay for several thousand.

    I'd consider finding a rapid prototyping company to make you a model. I bet you could get a 6" minotaur for a couple hundred bucks.

    There is a demand for artistic 3D. I've seen it used mostly in architecture, entertainment, and singage.

    -Jeff

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3634
    Look at this link, Whiteriver did this with only 4-axis. This guy is good!


    http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showp...00/ppuser/1498

    .

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    2103
    Quote Originally Posted by InspirationTool View Post
    I'd consider finding a rapid prototyping company to make you a model. I bet you could get a 6" minotaur for a couple hundred bucks.Jeff

    If he can, he better jump on it. I'm not a betting man, but I would nearly bet you he couldn't get close to that for cnc carving? I just know how long it takes to carve something a lot more simple than that plus to get all the detail it will have to be machined with two or three bits and the speeds won't be very high.

    Mike
    No greater love can a man have than this, that he give his life for a friend.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4
    I was thinking of carving it in parts. (arms, legs torso, head) But it will actually be much more complex than this because the figure is not posed yet. Eventually it will be carying a shield and some kind of sword.

    Maybe I'm asking too much from subtractive methods.

    I don't have the cash for a additive prototyping machine.

    I've asked a few people, and they all say that the machining time required is too long and that it would cost me > $1000 to machine it.

    I've been thinking that if I had a homebuilt router I could set it to work without incurring so much cost. Could such a macine even carve with enough detail for a 4" - 6" figure?

    I'd thought I could machine this thing out of high density foam and then use a lost foam process to cast a master. Then I'd make silicon molds from that. Then I could cast it out of resin.

    My thinking is that I want to make hundreds of different kinds of creatures and sell them as a kind of collector set.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by turmite View Post
    If he can, he better jump on it. I'm not a betting man, but I would nearly bet you he couldn't get close to that for cnc carving? I just know how long it takes to carve something a lot more simple than that plus to get all the detail it will have to be machined with two or three bits and the speeds won't be very high.

    Mike

    Mike, I was talking about an additive method, not a subtractive one. Google "stereolithography" to see what I mean.

    ST45, There are companies out there that are rapid prototyping job shops. Just send them a copy of your model to get an estimate.

    Unless you *want* to make them yourself, you may find you can have quite alot of them made for what you would pay for a machine to do it yourself.

    -Jeff

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4
    Thanks for the advice.

    What I'm hearing you say is that a home-built cnc router isn't practical for my application--but if I'm obsessed with playing with a machine, I can knock myself out.

    That's good to know.

    You guys are great!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3634
    st45,

    I think you would be better off, building a very small cnc (4-axis) If all you will be cutting is foam.






    .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    17
    I have cut some really detailed stuff on a five axis cnc mikron mill but still not sure if this would be possible. I envy the man that would be able to program that! Good Luck!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    761

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by chop5280 View Post
    I have cut some really detailed stuff on a five axis cnc mikron mill but still not sure if this would be possible. I envy the man that would be able to program that! Good Luck!

    One way to program it is, use a stereo lithography program to cut the model into slices. Each slice profile is sent to a routine to write the code for rotational and Z profiles. Easy!! Got other projects I'm working on right now! I will add this to my list to investigate.
    Wayne Hill

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1257
    Quote Originally Posted by InspirationTool View Post
    ...Google "stereolithography" to see what I mean. -Jeff
    http://computer.howstuffworks.com/stereolith.htm

    "Stereolithography, also known as 3-D layering or 3-D printing, allows you to create solid, plastic, three-dimensional (3-D) objects from CAD drawings in a matter of hours. Whether you are a mechanical engineer wanting to verify the fit of a part or an inventor looking to create a plastic prototype of an invention, stereolithography gives you a fast, easy way to turn CAD drawings into real objects."

    "Stereolithography is not an inexpensive process. The machines themselves usually cost in excess of $250,000. They have to be vented because of fumes created by the polymer and the solvents. The polymer itself is extremely expensive. CibaTool SL5170 resin, a common photopolymer used in stereolithography, typically costs about $800/gallon. For these reasons, it is uncommon to find stereolithography machines anywhere but in large companies."

    http://www.quickparts.com/quickquote/adduser.asp

    "With our QuickQuote process, product designers can get instant price quotes and buy custom parts online 24x7."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    281
    I agree with the rapid prototyping. You can find a company who has a 3d-printer and they can make a high res 3-d object (even in color) straight from a 3d object file.

    Here's an example: http://www.emco.co.uk/rapid.htm

    The finsihed object can handle finishing pretty well (sanding/painting). Or you could have them print and inverted image and cast an object from that (low temp materials). I have seen these on ebay for a few $K. For what you want to do this makes the most sense. A 6 inch character would take this machine about 2-4 hours so I would assume about $400-$800.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1257
    Heres a 3D Printer going for $1k st45. Within your budget maybe...

    http://cgi.ebay.com/3D-Systems-Actua...QQcmdZViewItem

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3634

    diarmaid,
    Good find.

    I know this is off topic, but I read an article a while back that they are working on printing organs at Clemson University, thats wild!

    http://www.ces.clemson.edu/bio/people/boland.htm

    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...=1&ad=homepage




    .

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1257
    Switcher....WOOW!!!! That is absolutely fantastic. Those guys are certainly thinking outside the box and I love anyone who does that. That is AMAZING Im flabbergasted. Its projects like that which make people great. This is the 'can do' attitude that advanced us beyond living in caves and into space. It really is fantastic. So many people would read that and throw up their eyes and spout 'scientific facts' why it wouldn't work and ridicule the scientists. If more people had the attitude that any obstacles can be overcome the world would be a better place. Its coming across things like that, on those few occasions that I do, which make me believe that we really can do anything and there is hope for humanity. It might not be an everyday technology in my lifetime, but you never know, look at how fast the computer revolution happened. Thanks for the links. :cheers: FANTASTIC.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4
    Ok, so here's the naive question of the day...

    Why couldn't someone modify one of these inkjet plotters, mount it on a z-axis and home build an additive system?

    Has anyone done this sort of thing?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    281
    They could. The ink is some type of glue so you would need to be able to replace the ink in the cartridge with this glue. The z axis would need to lift the printer so it could put down a clean layer of sand (or whatever they use). It seems pretty doable. You would need to change the Y axis from a roller to moving the "box" of sand also so there might be a power issue. Also, I think there's some type of light the dries the glue...that would need to be worked in there also.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    142
    Once I get all the bugs out of my mill I would be inteested in trying to mill your project. Cost you a beer or 2. Be a couple of months before I am ready. I would like to specilize in very small runs. If you provide the file perverted to Mach 3 or in a format that lazycam knows I would hope to keep a 12" model to $100

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1
    coming to this forum and topic a little late to be of help, but have had similar challenges making things from my 3d models at home and work. If you do shop out your work this will be a good fix if it is not something you will see yourself doing hands-on in the future. I had enough things I needed to do that I went the mill route and bought a machine....but, I also used it for my dayjob at a production company.
    If you outsource, you wont be able to stop and make changes....there might be unseen problems in your model when sent to a shop. After several attempts you might have spent enough to buy a used (small build envelope) milling machine, but you have to be good at slicing up your model. This guys looks like he is doing similar stuff:
    http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/Products/Case/hollywood.htm

    here are some pics from my project:

    http://www.troyengel.com/html/sharkgogs_c.html

    I have to slice up most of my models to get the detail as I am working with 3 axis machine.
    Hope this helps,
    Troy

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    105

    casting your model

    Sorry for responding to an old post. I also do some 3D art designs. I have an expensive 3D printer and I am not impressed with it. I would much rather design a two part mold in Rhino, import to Mastercam and run on my 3-axis mill. Then I cast the part with pewter or plastic. Pretty nice detail if you ask me. Better than my 50,000 Dimension 3D printer and not as fragile.
    "Craft is What I do All Day. Art is what I have at the end of it" Jean Weller

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