[manakawari]

im weighing all my options for a small desktop cnc machine and considering price, and features, im just not finding much that im interested in other than the infamous chinese cnc3040..

what im looking for is a very small machine, to mainly cut wax and plastic but i would like to option(even if its slow to cut) that ability to cut soft metals on occasion.

i would like it to have 4 axis and the option of 5 now or sometime in the future.

i want the price to be reasonable and i would like it to be enclosed(i will build an enclosure for the cnc3040)

im just reading so many horror stories about the electronics being terrible and i just dont know enough about milling or electronics to feel comfortable with that but i really dont see too many other options.

i do not need the size or the power of taig and considering its for art and jewlery and nothing that would require it to be super precise, mainly wax milling, i just cant seem to justify the cost of an american machine, besides, the things i will be milling are tiny for the most part and when you factor in an enclosure, a taig will take up way too much room for what i need a cnc for.

i looked at the the nomad cnc and that would be perfect for me but 4th axis is not an option due to limited z and i was really hoping for a 5th axis if not now, at least an option in the future.

considering my budget is tight, and a 4 axis mill of the size i need just doesnt seem to be available, i just seem stuck on the cnc3040...its perfect for what i want a machine to do, its just a shame that based on what i reading, they are junk and likely to be a headache.

im posting here basically wondering if perhaps these posts are old and the maker of this machine maybe got its act together and began using better parts??

assuming they didnt, is there a less painful option when considering one of these?

are some machines better than others etc? im seeing lots of vendors and lots of options from various spindle power, water cooled or air cooled, different port options and it seems that all the bad reports i have been reading are from machines requiring the old style ports but i see now that they are available in a usb option...so im wondering if maybe these machines are being made better?.

anyway, if there is a "better way" of buying one of these i would love to hear suggestions, even if it would require me to buy the machine and replace certain parts that are known to be bad.

the cost of a 5 axis water cooled spindle machine is extremely tempting, it just seems perfect for my purposes and is in my budget but im reluctant to inherit a huge headache....perhaps these machines are available as a kit where i can build it myself and then swap out known to be bad parts for better ones?

i just dont know , im looking at kickstarter projects at the moment , and there are a few i could research but i got burned on a kickstarter 3d printer so im not crazy about that idea...i would love to head what you guys thing about this and what you could suggest.

[manakawari]

i noticed that a 5 axis frame for this machine is available Amazon.com: 5 Axis Engraving Machine Supporting Frame Unit Ball Screw CNC 3040 Router Table: Computers & Accessories , im wondering if buying the frame and then using better parts to make my own might be an option? i just dont know where to begin...i really want a 5 axis machine of this type and imj guessing that if i buy this frame and add good electronics and spindle, im thinking i could have a great 5 axis mill for my purposes. is this an option? i guessing this option would not only allow be to have a great machine but building it would teach me more about about it so i can preform any future maintenance ..

[pippin88]

What do you need 5 axis for?

Not to be too negative but:

5 axis CAM is expensive++
5 axis hardware is not cheap to implement and there is a sort of accumulation of errors with each added axis such that you generally need more accurate / precise hardware for 5 axis work.

There are reasons that many come here sure they need 5 axis and very few ever end up with it.

[victorofga]

on ebay same machine with motors and controls for amost same price..

I think after working with laser and CorelDraw, I think you going to encounter with minor difficulties to creating models, and run a 5 axis machine..

while it is not so complicated as it looks for first sight,... however without real cad -cam experiment you might simply not capable to making any part with the machine..

just my two cent..
I don't want to take your willing just try to prepare you for a disappointed moment...

best try is to get a trial from any cad cam site.. like visualmill or other site and try it..

how much parts are costing?
if you want to mill metal on that machine, first you have to swap the simple stepper motor to a harmonic drive...
the cheapest strating about 3-400 dollar
2 of them at least 7-800... modifying that machine to accommodate a drive, don't looking viable with CorelDraw knowledge..

again we just try to save you headache.. we don't have to pay for your mistakes..


for the end,,, only one literal question.. if you don't know 5 axis programming, then how do you can decide which one is a good program?
how do you deciding what spindle better?
visible you lacking any engineering background.. without that, it will be hard.. people who know any way the 5 axis machining they will talk you like "" foreign language"""
don't even with dictionary you understand them...

[manakawari]

what do you mean laser and corel draw? im currently working on a 4 axis cnc at work but its a roland machine so its pretty user friendly... , im using fusionj 360 and mudbox mainly for my design work..like i said its for jewlery design so the 5th axis will come in handy ...i curre,ntly have no problem creating the stl files i need and you are correct, im not an engeneer, im a designer and since i am only familiar with roland machine, i do noy know gcode,...anyway, im not concerned about the operation of the machine, im concerned about the mechanics of the machine

[awerby]

I don't see what the Chinese 3040 will do for you (if it works at all) that the Roland you've got already won't do better.

[manakawari]

im sorry i should have been more clear, im using a roland 4 axis mill at work and whle its pretty slow at cutting metal, i really love the machine because im usually using it for miling max or acrylic/wood...when i do cut metal its usually only thin sheet metal...but, my interest , what this thread is about i mean, is im looking to purchase a mill for myself to operate in my apartment.

so basically im in the market for 2 mills actually , we need another cnc at work for more metal milling(im looking at a taig machine) but im also looking for another mill for me to use for hobby use at home.

im a graphic designer by trade and kind of fell into cnc milling because my job required me to learn milling but i fell in love with 3d designing and milling and would like to now purchase a machine for personal projects.

i hope this helps clear things up...i should have explained myself better im sorry, i could see how it would seem odd that i would want to purchase a chinese cnc after having a roland machine but again, this chinese machine would be for personal use and for art projects, not anything that would require a super precise machine. mainly for milling wax for lost wax castings but i would like to have the option of soft metals on occasion(mostly engraving and it would be even more less frequently used for actually milling metals)

my plan is to maybe buy the 4 or maybe even 5 axis frame from china, and then do my own wiring and use a gecko control box .. my thinking is that this might allow me to avoid many of the problems im reading about that seem to be common(main complaints seem to be about wiring and the control box).

so im thinking i could at least start out with a 4 axis cnc3040 frame, ill build it with better wiring and controls ill install a better spindle than what comes stock with this machine and at work i will laser cut an acrylic enclosure for it....this seems like if im willing to put in the time, one could use the frame of these machines and really build a very good mini , potentially 5 axis cnc..

aside from thinking i will enjoy the project actually, i think it would be possible to create an amazing machine if i use only the frame and build it with better parts...im thinking i will eventually like to have 5 axis and a water cooling device as well.

i see nowhere that would allow me to have a mini 5 axix milling machine, one that would fit on my desk at home for 3 grand but if i buy the frame and parts myself, i can come in somewhere close to that.

a similar machine, looks like around 20 thousand dollars.

i suppose i could consider the taig as an option for my personal machine too but it seems a bit too large and with the enclosure to fit in my apartment and still look good ..the small chinese cnc can be enclosed in an acrylic enclosure and still look good on my desk next to my computer and besides, is a 5 axix possible with a taig? is the kit available? that seems like it would be a a lot more money and i dont see how i would need that since i will never be cutting steel and rarely metal at all.

that nomad cnc looked nice bui too bad its not available in 4 axix let alone 5.

based on my new information do you guys still think its a bad idea and if so please tell me why.

im not familiar with building these machines and i would need to know who to contact in order to direct me on how to do what i want to do...i have a good friend who is a laser and embroidery machine tech so im sure he can help me build the machine...anyway, i just dont see an alternative ..

[G59]

5 Axis CNC 3040 Table Ball SCREW5 Column Type Engraving Machine High Pricision | eBay

There you go.

Personally I would never buy it, but for plastics or wax, should be OK.

I don't know anything about this machine but Mach3 software comes with it but no CAM software to generate the necessary g-code for it to work with.

[daniellyall]

best thing to do is do a list of what you wont,

what size are objects you will be doing, work it out from the biggest

how fast you wont it to go

what software for cad/cam (fusion 360 I guess from what you have already said)

software for machine

weight of machine

If you don't know a lot about the mechanics of a cnc machine ( get a made in USA machine ) or if you are willing to learn the chines machines are a good way to learn how to fix and maintain a cnc machine also they are good at draining your bank account if you get a lump of ****e.

its a risk getting any machine it just goes up if you get a machine made over seas some USA machine are chines machines repainted and labled and that's about all that gets done to them, some are stripped and rebuilt what's ok, some just get the castings or frame from else wear and do a ground up build what's even better.

or you could just drop the big dollars and get a machine what's going to work like a dream for years and years from day one

[awerby]

That does make things a bit clearer. I don't think you can purchase just the frame of these machines, and there's nothing particularly great about them anyway. They would be marginal at best at cutting metals, even soft ones. Buying one with the expectation of stripping off the electronics and replacing them sounds like a waste of time and money to me, but maybe you'll need to go through that yourself before you'll agree.

If you want a gantry-type router, you can build one fairly easily, and if you're smart about sourcing the components and reasonably competent at building machines, you'll get a better one for less money. There are plenty of builds here that are documented pretty well, that you can use as inspiration. But these machines are most rigid when the gantry is kept as low as possible; adding a 4th axis isn't advisable due to the extra height required (not to mention a 5th).

Launching into a 5-axis machine seems premature in your case, particularly since your budget is limited. This adds a significant amount of complexity and expense to the process, and is one more place for error to creep in.

If a Taig mill seems too large for you, consider getting a (US-made) Sherline 5400 CNC-ready and furnishing it with your own steppers and a Gecko 540 controller. That would be suitable for jewelry work in wax or metal, and has enough headroom to fit a 4th axis without compromising rigidity. You'll want the 10k rpm spindle, but that's available as a standard option.

[manakawari]

Thanks for all the advise guys..i think you guys are correct and are starting to steer me away from this chinese mill idea.

As an alternative im looking at two options...since i want a small desktop gantry style machine that would allow for an easily built and nice looking acrylic enclosure, i found a company from england who make a kit called the mini muscle cnc...does anyone know of this company?im thinking this machine looks like a nice alternative but im not sure about the availability of a 4th axis.

Another option is a sherline 5000 4 axis..not sure which is better for me...i like what would probably be a better metal cutting machine in the sherline but i like the table size of the mini muscle when i want to do large 3 axis engraving (looks like sherline os a poor choice 4 this.

so as of now my first thpught is the mini muscle but if there is no 4th axis i will choose the sherline...i just dont think the sherline can be enclosed in an attractove way but whatever..

again,my use will be acrylic and wax 3 and 4 axis mold making with the occasional spft metal milling of small jewlery type pieces in 3 and 4 axis..i basically need a jewlers mill but would love it to have a larger bed like the 3040 for dping router work and large multi piece molds..

Btw, if my first choice is not available as 4th axis or if you guys convince me the sherline is better, is there a sherline dealer who advertises here?..this site has been great and id like to show my support by purchasing my machine from a site sponsor

[daniellyall]

you may be better of getting a small mill like a G0704, tormach, novakon or something like that

[manakawari]

thanks but after a quick search these seem out of my price range...like i said..this one is for personal use so my budget is tight and besides it needs to be small as well..this needs to fit on my desk next to my computer...id like to easily enclose it so my apartment doesnt get destroyed.

i need another mill for work and i will look into these for that but for purposes of this thread a mini muscle or sherline size and pricerange seem like limitations with little flexibilirty .

if i find that mini muscle offers a 4th axis i think thats the one..while i like sherline i feel the bed may be too small and i think creating an enclosure for this machine might be too large..the design of the mini muscle seems like a nice acrylic box enclosure can look attractive as well.

[MichaelHenry]

If you are going to use this in an apartment keep in mind that even small mills have a habit of throwing chips everywhere in the vicinity of the mill.

Mike

[manakawari]

Yes its why im going to build an enclosure..im.use a roland enclosed mdx 40a at work and its fine..i just vaccume it out daily.

This is why i want a gantry type machine so i can easily enclose it in a good looking case.

Im not sure how or if i can go about adding a 4th axis to the mini muscle cnc but im really feeling like that machine will be perfect for me..im not sure if the z travel is enough for a 4th azis

[laserlotus]

but again, this chinese machine would be for personal use and for art projects, not anything that would require a super precise machine. mainly for milling wax for lost wax castings

I would hope the mechanics of the machine are able to handle the milling of wax. I would doubt that you can do serious milling of aluminum without flexing it, which would reduce accuracy. But this may not even be that great a concern for "art" projects. I'd go for it, it seems your expectations of the machine are not unrealistic. Replacing the control may be a good idea, I have one of the Chinese laser engravers and I stopped using it because the stock control introduced large motion errors (on the order of 1/4 cm or so) randomly. I might want to replace the control sometime ...

[daniellyall]

you can get a machine frame only from china and put the steppers and electronics on it your self the frames are really only good for doing aluminium slow unless you beef it up what's not all that hard to do.

CNC Mainbody - carving-cnc.com

that one you are look at from England is a weird looking machine its really a extra gantry added on to make it stronger what can be done with braceing

[Allen Smith]

That seems like they have not sold any frame now. ...........

[daniellyall]

yer it looks like they changed the design to so it was old stock they where getting ride of

[axelen]

Hi everyone..

This is probably my first post on cnczone..
I also saw this machine (HY-3040) recently and started day dreaming about getting one..

A bit about me :
I have experience in 3 axis "programming" using SolidWorks and SolidCam, And I have a converted proxxon mf70 (best accuracy I can get is~0.09mm) which
I used to build a CP helicopter rotor head I designed. I am not afraid of being able to program the machine..

That being said, I am no professional and this is not my trade. Reading this thread is the first time I heard about harmonic drives (then went reading about them)..
Also, I understand the spindle is far from being able to mill steel - so it also has to be changed.

So, If I get this item :
4 Axis Column CNC 3040 Router Table 50L Ball Type Engraving Machine Supporting | eBay

I will have to add :
1) spindle
2) harmonic drives - can I just attach the following type of drive to a nema sepper?
. Harmonic Drive 1 100 Gear Without Motor as Photos for 4 Forth Axis Mini CNC | eBay
or Harmonic Drive HPG 14A 33 F0ABL Gear 1 33 for 4 TH Axis Mini CNC SN 0948 | eBay
What else am I missing?

it is stated the machine "should be 0.02mm accurate. is this number believable? can it be reduced to 0.01 (without throwing more money than the machine price..)
Where do you expect this machine will have mechanical pitfalls? - I mean in maintenance / loss of accuracy / weaknesses of the machine

Cheers,
Ran Amir