[CATCH22]

Just wondering if anyone has tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller or know someone that has,
I'm thinking about buying one if I can find some reviews.

Thanks Mike

[Torchhead]

Why are you wanting a Stand Alone MACH3 (which is the screen they show pirated from our screen sets) when there are much better integrated solutions?
How do they do IHS?(touch off)
How do they do ARC OK ?
How do they do anti-dive
What CAM software/POST do you use to generate the cut files ?
How do they stop motion if the torch fails to fire? The most basic system needs a "HOLD" command back to the XY control.
Do you speak Vietnamese?

If you buy one I am sure others would like to hear about how it goes.

TOM caudle
Home

[CATCH22]

I'm open to suggestions what would you recommend, I have a Hypertherm Powermax 600 and will be using Mach3 on a 4x5 table.
Thanks Mike

[lik2waterski]

I have been using CandCnc for about 4 years now. I haven't had any issues to speak of (other than what I have messed up). I am building a new table now and will use their products on it too.

[CATCH22]

[QUOTE=lik2waterski;1629408]I have been using CandCnc for about 4 years now. I haven't had any issues to speak of (other than what I have messed up). I am building a new table now and will use their products on it too.[/QUOT

Are you using MP3000?

[lik2waterski]

I am using this one Up to 100 lb Gantry - Plasma Stepper Systems : Plasma - AIO BladeRunner Dragon Cut 620-4 Stepper System + DTHC II
I have the feather touch upgrade. On the new table I will have system with the 4th axis. I don't think you can find a better product, not to mention they have a support forum that has helped me a number of times.
Travis

[CATCH22]

Well I think I'm going to go with the MP3000 or the MP3100 from CandCNC.
I think it will be the best and easiest for me to go with.
Thanks Mike

[bdrotaru]

I'm using Neuron THC Controller.
I've tried lots of THC controlers. Both capacitive and voltage. This one seems to be realy featured. For about 800$ you will get a proffesional THC controller, control panel, ohmic sensor, arc ok sensor and voltage divider. The best part is that is compatible with any plasma cuter and comes with a plasma screen for mach3 too. I strongly recomand this one.
I attached 2 pictures of Neuron THC special functions. I really don't think that hobby THC controllers have such capabilities.
Attachment 265108Attachment 265110

[shad71]

Hello everyone!
I am the developer of this controller and can answer all your questions.
If anyone is interested I attached the user manual.
I think it will help answer many questions.

[shad71]

Neuron Plasma + OxyFuel combined controller is coming soon....

[Torchhead]

The MP3500-DTHCIV has all of the same advanced features as the Neuron (and more) but it is NOT a stand alone THC for MACH3. While it uses a full high speed direct PID Z control, it is tightly integrated with MACH3 and you can use your Z for any other process since it is a fully function (router etc) Z in MACH. The DTHC functions are all part of the Custom MACH3 screens we provide. The MP3500 is also a BoB interface to the PC that uses Ethernet for everything including motor motion and all the system I/O. . Full independent 5 axis of possible motion. Two aux relays controlled form MACH to do plate markers and or oxy fuel. Using custom POSTS for SheetCAM you have an Electronic cut chart that automatically does all of the settings for the DTHC IV when you load the G-Code. It is totally cut path aware meaning MACH knows where the Z is and the DTHC knows what the toolpath (XY) is doing, and can be used with SheetCAMs CUT RULES to not only turn the DTHC on or off dynamically but to do corner slowdown, change preset volts and using the optional RS485 serial port on a Hypertherm, dynamically control the cut current; all in real time. There is a settable auto minimum cut length for DTHC operation that dynamically turns the DTHC off on small holes and short cuts. Custom POST (free) includes a plate marker tool (mix plasma and plate marking in the same job) and special functions for plasma "peck" mode for surface marking center holes with plasma but not blowing a hole

For the techie guys: Arc Volts resolution is 12 bit (about .06 volts) DTHCIV speeds can approach 250 IPM with a stepper Z (5 turn LS) and has three presentable (from G-Code via SheetCAM) response profiles. Set to "Fast" it will track and cut corrugated metal at up to 200 IPM. it works well on even the thinnest metal including HVAC. The MP3500 is all you need between the PC and the power control box. Everything (including the arc volts) is opto isolated from the logic side (no possible path for ground loops) The Bob board part has expanded inuts (up to 10) and 3 power relays plus two logic lines. Using different Connection Kits you can have a single cable twist-and-go cable to Hypertherm and TD plasma cutters with the 14 pin CPC connectors all the way to our Universal Connection Kit that lets you use ANY plasma cutter including HF start and CD start (like larger ESAB units) machines.. Because the DTHCIV uses whatever Z motor typo you have and shares control with MACH you are not limited to just a "torch lifter" Things like the touch off frequency , touch off speeds, type sensor and the pierce cycle are all set externally. from G-Code

The MP3100 combines the legacy parallel port motor interface and the new high speed DTHCIV at a lower cost. All of the features remain the same except the connection to the PC.

If you use MACH3 the MP3000 series are a total interface solution for CNC plasma, including not only the DTHC but motion interface and advanced I/O. They all come with an external interface card (MTA150) that has 5 axis of screw terminals for wiring discrete motor drivers plus a 25 pin header for direct connection to controllers like the Gecko G540 (no, we don't support the cheep TBA6560 type motor drivers you see on EBAY!)

For a full list of features and specs contact me
TOMcaudle
Home
Quality products made in the USA with phone, forum and e-mail support

[schwarzeniger]

No offense Torchead but Neuron controller looks to have all the features that your controller have and yet they are found to be tweaked by user in advanced settings. Before i write this post i downloaded from cand cnc website plugins for your device and compared with plugin provided by Neuron developer. After a close look, both features and design, there is more likely that I will choose Neuron controller. I don't doubt that your controller don't do what you say (you have a lot of buyers) but for me, wich i own a shop and i cut sheet metal 3-4 hours/day, and to my shame i don't use either of the two controllers, Neuron seems to be a little over MP3000 series. It's true! Cand CNC has a forum, but i will install my controler only once. The rest of problems are matter of device reliability and plasma quality. And then i have to look at that mach3 screen every time i have to cut metal. Neuron looks polished. I don't need extra boxes around my pc.
I like that MP3500 can adjust current in real time. But only for Hypertherm plasma.

Things like the touch off frequency , touch off speeds, type sensor and the pierce cycle are all set externally. from G-Code

. With Neuron it seems like i do this without edit G-CODE. I do that now. And for me is a waste of time editing sheetcam tools every time i have to change something.
And there's the issue of country origin of the product.. I don't mind to buy vietnamese products if they are quality ones and developers will offer suport during use. I think price is a important factor too
I didn't want to offend anybody. Just a quick comparission of two products.

[bdrotaru]

Interesting choice. But what you will do when plasma interferences will kill your LCD screen??? You will buy another THC from same seller or you will ask a "techie guy" to do some service?

[shad71]

Yes Neuron.THC is stand alone industrial Torch Height Controller, connected to Mach3 via 10/100 Base-T Ethernet interface (only programming and IO interface).

Neuron has internal motion controller and controls the Z axis motor driver directly. The sequence of actions during the cutting is determined by the built-in algorithm that has been used successfully for a long time of system operation. The user may at any time (even during the cut) change all parameters via an controller interface in Mach3. To change the settings of the cutting process is not necessary to change the program. Simply enter a new value as you used to do it in Windows.
The control panel has the size of 450x330 pixels and can be used with your favorite ScreenSet.

The Initial Height Sensing procedure is performed using Float heat and/or Ohmic sensors.
Both sensors can be used simultaneously. To improve the accuracy of Float Head used offset correction, which is set during installation of the system.

Neuron does not use the internal THC logic (Up/Down command) of the Mach3. Mach3 controller has only the two coordinates (X,Y) NO Z . Adjusting the clearance between the cutter and the metal on the PID algorithm. This is Close loop PID control. Main cycle is 500 uS. System work very fast. No overshoot.

Neuron has the anti-dive function.
For technical guys:
Controller uses three methods to prevent the torch dive on the corners, end of cut and other situation.
First - KerfDetect - controller check the rate of change of the arc voltage - every 500 uS. If the rate of change exceeds the preset kerfdetect value (for example 600V/sec) the controller disable the AVC on the short time.
Second - good old control of the arc voltage above a set value in percent of ArcVoltage. This method is quite well known and need not think in the detailed description.
Third - from G-Code - no comments.

Improved Sample Voltage Mode
When Sample Voltage is ON, the controller measures the voltage at the end of the AVC Delay or removing the Hold signal (from CNC) and uses it as a set point for the remainder of the cut.


Work program (*.tap) can be created in the SheetCamTNG through "Mach3 Plasma No Z.sposts" postprocessor. Only 2D contour.

Installation is very simple.​​​​​​​​​​ All Neuron.THC system interconnect Cat5E (RJ45 connector) cables is have the pin-to-pin schemes.

System likes to work on corrugated metal. Maximum pulse frequency (for motor driver) is 100 kHz (50% Duty Cycle)
Controller work with any PlasmaUnit (including HF and HV Pilot arc setup).

For property work of the controller Homing switch and IHS switch (floathead and/or ohmic) are needed.

This is only one of the main features of the controller.
In the testing stage the software for Mach4.

--Andrew

[Torchhead]

schwarzeniger:


If you are manually editing G-Code you are way behind. Our custom POSTs for SheetCAM do all of the settings . All you do is select the Tool (based on the actual cut charts ) that has all of those stored parameters (including the preset volts value and the DTHC delsy time) and SheetCAM generates the G-code complete with special codes to changed the settings in the DTHC. We provide complete toolsets for all of the Hypertherm Powermax. We also have our Cut profiles that store settings in MACH but if making a change in one file or the other settings the balance then goes to another vendor.

I am not offended If you place no value on timely support then that factor is canceled.. We have a phone and we answer it 9-5 CST (with a human) and e-mails get quick response even on weekends and holidays. You do need to understand the difference between a stand alone THC and one integrated with the toolpath and MACH in real time. The DTHCIV does NOT use the internal MACH THC logic. It controls the Z directly using its high speed loop but it also allows motion from MACH using its Z settings so you have the best of both methods. In a stand alone THC Every single option has to be programmed to the stand alone THC.and if its not there you can't have it, where as a good number of the features in our system come from things that have been in SheetCAM for years (like the touch-off frequency based on distance and all of the prep moves (pierce height, plunge rate, cut height, end of cut delay, and our custom parameters. while the DTHC has had anti dive based on voltage change for years (TIP SAVER) the combination with software lets the DTHC know when a corner or curve is coming up and to turn off the DTHC BEFORE you hit the corner and any voltage starts to chagne. It also turns off the DTHC just before the end of a cut so no dive at the end. Because of the open post language options can be added pretty easy.

A toolSet in SheetCAM is no different that the stored settings in any other place but in an external one. you just have to remember to select the external profile before you start the cut. We have had stored settings (aka Cut Profiles) in our products for over 6 years. Either way you have to change the settings manually, use a stored setting from a list you developed in the THC or stored in MACh OR use a setting from a list in SheetCAM that then embeds the parameters in the G-Code and automatically makes the changes every time you ran that job. You do not have to remember anything

Just Having our MACH plugin and screens gives you limited insight to compare our hardware and how it is NOT just a THC. Without the matching SheetCAM post you are missing most of the automation features. Since the Ethernet to the THC has to be dedicated if you want to use an Ethernet motion card it has to have a separate Ethernet port ...not standard on any PC. then if you want access to a network (public or private you need yet another Ethernet Port. The conversation to/from the DTHCIV to MACH is via our C3 Bus (RS485 noise immune protocol) .We furnish the USB to RS485 4 port adapter.for the C3 hub.


I am not trying to sell my products here. I am pointing out the differences.since someone listed all the features of the Neuron.

TOMcaudle
ww.w.CandCNC.com

[winthrop]

Hello everyone, this is my first post and it's rather long but I felt compelled to add my comments about a product that deserves some attention. This post is my review on the Neuron THC system.

I have been using my plasma system for about 3 years now cutting mostly 3/8" mild steel plate using a Hypertherm Powermax 45. Several months ago I decided to upgrade the THC and after many phone calls and emails I decided to go with Neuron. Since installation I have cut over 1000 parts in 3/8" mild steel using the Neuron. Cutting 3/8" steel will give you a good idea of edge squareness and height control. So far I am totally satisfied with this system and have had 0 failures related to THC.
This is the system I built and some ideas that some might find useful:

Attachment 265312

Here is a shot of the table with it's cover on. The cover is a sheet of blue 1" thick insulation that I picked up for cheap at a building supply store. It's easy to cut, very durable and light and is not affected by the water chemistry PH. It has knocked the evaporation of the table fluid down to near zero. The other thing you may notice is the stainless doughnut on the bottom of the torch. It's held on by a simple o-ring and is bore is .020" larger than the O.D of the torch head. This simple doughnut keeps the machine a lot cleaner by deflecting a lot of the pierce spatter back down into the fluid. To change consumables you just slide it off and on the o-ring.

My favorite part of the machine is my poor mans machine torch made from a Sage fly rod tube. The internals are the stock Hypertherm hand torch very CAREFULLY brought into alignment with the gas inlet. The end of the Sage was machined to secure the head of the Hypertherm. The most difficult part was actually machining the Derlin strain relief for the end of the torch. The Y-Axis uses THK rails, two trucks each side and the X-Axis uses two NSK rails. The machine is very accurate.

Attachment 265320

Here is another shot of the table with the cover removed after I installed all new slats. I used to use the Sodium Nitrite based recipe common on the web, but I did not like the stability of that mix so I ended up using KCI Chemical's Plasma green 1050. This is the best product I have found to date and it has no amines and shows much better PH stability.

The brains of the system:

Lenovo M90P Intel i5, 4GB ram
Windows 7 professional 64 bit SP1
Neuron THC System
Ethernet Smoothstepper
ESS Driver ESS-v10r2d1b
Gecko G540 (X,Y,A)
M542 Stepper Driver (Z)
.200 lead on Z axis
Mach 3 Version R3.043.067
TP-Link TL-SG105 Gigabit switch
Hypertherm Powermax 45
Majority of material cut 3/8" mild steel plate at 45A

One thing to note that is so important to consumable life is the air. I use a refrigerated dryer running at 34 degrees right after the compressor then right before the Hypertherm I have a large CDS desiccant cartridge using Silica beads and a Cobalt blue moisture indicator on the canister, then I go into the Motorgard filter. The beads are easily regenerated by baking the moisture out and are cheap so you can always have a fresh charge on hand . My air is now clean and dry period.

The Neuron THC

The main screen.....

Attachment 265318

The above shot of the main screen in Mach. The more I use it, the more I like it, clean with large toolpath window.

My favorite feature of this system is how well it samples voltage to control height. This feature is my lifesaver for cutting thick material and the Neuron does it so well. It is a must have in my book and here is why. There is a common misconception about THC and cut charts:

TIP VOLTAGE EQUALS CORRECT TORCH HEIGHT - WRONG!

CORRECT TORCH HEIGHT EQUALS TIP VOLTAGE - RIGHT!

Example, if I put a large lightly rusted plate on the machine that looks like a piece of swiss cheese and connect the ground in one corner and am using a tip with 3000 inches of use on a rainy day and open my book to see that Hypertherm says 122 volts for .375" material does that equal .060"? Hell no, that means nothing, even correcting for the voltage divider it still means nothing. But if the system does the IHS, starts and captures the voltage at the correct height in the correct way then uses that voltage to control the height we now have a working system and Neuron does this really well. This feature was know as "Smart Cut" with CANDCNC but was dropped that last time I spoke with them. Tom, if you are out there, I would highly recommend you bringing it back.
I get all of my material from Couer d' alene steel, and like most all mild steel it's not virgin material and at a cut height of .060 I have seen variations of up to 10 volts depending on plate and conditions which will throw cut charts right out the window. I still use them, but only for pierce and height parameters then I let Neuron set the voltage.

Attachment 265322

The Neuron also has the ability to capture them actual tip voltage within Mach as shown below:

Attachment 265324

Example of the ability to capture data using the Neuron THC. The above graph showing the start of the cut. I can scroll through the entire graph and capture hundreds of data points, all within Mach at the click of a mouse. Why is this important? How else can you optimize THC parameters? Maybe this is overkill, but to me this is a valuable feature.

Attachment 265326

The above photo showing end of cut data.
Neuron uses Sheetcam rules to control the THC on/off depending on conditions as shown below. Again the system does this very well.

Attachment 265328

Cut height vs tip voltage

Attachment 265330

The relationship between tip height and torch voltage. This is something I scoured the web for and could not find, so I painstakingly did it myself. The first step was to shim and level a 3/8" mild steel plate on the plasma table and capture the data via Neuron on a series of cuts with the tip height ranging from .040" to .080" in height and plot the data. The actual tip voltage is not important, it's the slope that matters. For 3/8" mild steel you can see that I am getting about .010" per volt in tip voltage.

Attachment 265332

What is interesting is that when repeating the experiment on material of 1/2 the thickness the value climbs to almost 2 volts per .010". Why go to this much trouble, I am a data driven person and to know how accurate this system is I needed to know the relationship between volts and height.

Some results:

Very accurate height control is not that important for free form work, but on the industrial side, it saves me money. I love to do machine parts via Autocad. I recently did some blower flanges that could be tapped on .120 wall nozzles and held in place without clamping.
It's all about the edge! Correct torch height will give you a square edge and a square edge give you dimensional accuracy. I measure my kerf width with a feeler gauge and check the value all the time. Bad THC can add easily change the kerf by .010 so it all kinda ties in. If I tell Sheetcam my kerf is .048, it's pretty damn close and after a while you can figure out how to do some pretty accurate cutting, but this is all dependent on holding that correct height.
Note: This is all directly related to material thickness. If I was only cutting 16GA material I honestly would be alot less concerned, because basically there is no edge and THC can get pretty loose, but cut over 1000 parts out of 3/8" plate and you start learning what accurate height control is all about.

Attachment 265334

The above photo is a shot of the typical cuts I get using the Neuron THC. Very square edges and very little dross that I can remove with my fingernail.

Cutting conditions:

Hypertherm Powermax 45 @ 45A
Cut Height .060
Feedrate 30IPM
Pierce Height .180"
Pierce Time 1.8 Seconds
Ultra dry/clean air

Consumable life:

With the above conditions and accurate height control I get over 6000" of cutting 3/8" which results in about .030 loss of the Hafnium electrode and it's still cutting well at that level. I recently pulled a nozzle (220671) and an electrode (220669) that I pushed to over 8500 inches and 472 pierces.
I also compensate the height at 75% of the Hafnium loss, so for example at a level of .020 loss I have moved the head down .015 in compensation. The Neuron keeps track of the cutting time and the number of pierces. Still though the biggest factor here is the quality of air I feed my Hypertherm.

Conclusion:

For my application, dollar for dollar this is the best THC on the market, and I did a lot of research.
With my machine using the Neuron System the "mean" of my cutting 3/8" mild steel material gives me height control around +/- .0025" which I believe is about as good as it gets for a voltage controlled system. Also the build quality of the boards and components used is first rate and installation was very straightforward. It's been rock solid, no oscillations, no runaway and I finally have confidence in a system. I can safely hit run and walk away.

Andrew Shad of Neuron is a very knowledgeable man and was instrumental in helping me implement this into my system. Anyone interested in torch height control should check his website and read the features, take it from me it works as advertised.

One other thing I should mention for any plasma system is the z-axis. A typical router z-axis like what I show in the photos is not really what you want and I am scraping mine. Plasma z-axis should be light, fast and accurate. Thompson Rod guided, antibacklash nut, fine lead screw drives are O.K for routing but are not the best for plasma. Never forget the speed vs torque properties of a stepper.
I am in the process of building a new 6mm lead NSK ballscrew with NSK guides driven head for the machine that will cut the weight in half and improve rotational efficiency to over 90%. One quick test is to remove your z motor and with two fingers move your z up and down. Grab a good ballscrew and you will never go back. A used NSK ballscrew is better than any new acme screw nut combo by miles. After a couple of weeks of trolling ebay I found a high grade NSK ground ballscrew for $69.00 which will outlive my grandchildren.

Hypertherm

I also must add a huge thank you to Hypertherm for there plasma systems. My Powermax 45 has been flawless for three years running hard and still cuts like the day I bought it. Great units!!!

Shawn

[schwarzeniger]

I just found an interesting feature. "Retry on transfer fail" is that what i think it is? I've seen that on a very old emc2 plasma profile and never on THC controllers on the market.

If you are manually editing G-Code you are way behind.

I'm not doing manualy in GCODE Torchhead. But seems to be easy for me to modify some parameters inside Mach.

[Torchhead]

I'm not doing manualy in GCODE Torchhead. But seems to be easy for me to modify some parameters inside Mach.

I think that you may be confused that the settings HAVE to be in SheetCAM. Since you downloaded our Plugins, and I assume you do not have the DTHCIV hardware, you could not have seen the following configuration screens in MACH3 because the plugin has to have the DTHCIV module present to show these screens. There are other configuration and testing screens in our HUB ADMIN but once again you would have had our RS485 4 port hub and a DTHCIV module on line to see those screens.

Here is the operators screen in MACH3 with the right hand TAB fly-out open, Note the CUT PROFILE Button lower right:

Attachment 265880

Here is the first screen you see when you have the DTHC online with MACH3. You will note that this CUT PROFILE is all in MACH and you can ADD. EDIT. DELETE other settings in the list
You can run the file with the settings in MACH.only

Attachment 265882


And here is the settings for the DTHCIV including the Response Profile (PID settings)

Attachment 265884


This is a screen shot of the Operations window in SheetCAM. Note there are some options there that enhance the cut process (Min Cut Length For DTHC is one)

Attachment 265886


Note the expanded tool table for the DTHCIV . A lot of these settings are redundant with the ones in the CUT PROFILE. IF you use this POST and tool parameters they OVERRIDE the same settings in MACH3, but it gives you an opportunity to check and change anything manually you do not want You get prompted after you load the G-Code to "Check Your Settings".

SHEETCAM TOOL WINDOW

Attachment 265888



For me, setting everything that changes with different cuts in one place in SheetCAM makes logical sense and the values get stored in the G-Code so every time you run the file the same settings are used. This approach works well in a shop where the operator of the table is not the same person doing the design and CAM work, but also for those if us that sometimes forget things running different jobs.

Winthrop: Your review is detailed and impressive. Even more so for a new member and your very first post on the forum. WELL DONE! Where have you been for the last two years?
Looking at your list of hardware, You seem to have the technical expertise to integrate and use all of the products together with zero problems and I would like to know how you use the THC on/off feature in real time through MACH while the ESS is from 1/4 to 1 sec behind MACH as far as motion is concerned.? It proved a challenge to me to get the two processes synced close enough to get accurate timing. where 100 msec can mean you travel .375 inches at 225IPM cut speeds.

TOMcaudle
www.CandCNC.com

.

[schwarzeniger]

(wedge)
What the 'hack" Wintrop????????
Why your mach3 licence is candcnc but you use NeuronTHC?
I asume that once you had THC from Candcnc and now you use Neuron. Give us details!!! (group)

[winthrop]

Winthrop: Your review is detailed and impressive. Even more so for a new member and your very first post on the forum. WELL DONE! Where have you been for the last two years?
Looking at your list of hardware, You seem to have the technical expertise to integrate and use all of the products together with zero problems and I would like to know how you use the THC on/off feature in real time through MACH while the ESS is from 1/4 to 1 sec behind MACH as far as motion is concerned.? It proved a challenge to me to get the two processes synced close enough to get accurate timing. where 100 msec can mean you travel .375 inches at 225IPM cut speeds.
.

Attachment 266324
Hi Tom, thank you for the complement. Where have I been? Unfortunately I have been pounding iron. I am an ex semicon engineer that threw in the towel after 30 years of working for a company that went under Chinese ownership so it was time for me to leave. I live in the Cascades now and became a Blacksmith (talk about a serious pay cut!). Anyway I never seem to have any free time. We have a retail store as (shown in the pic) where the iron is sold and it's a full time job just to keep the store filled. I starting out doing all cutting with good old Victor, but that gets old fast so I built the plasma system.

To try to answer your questions, the THC on/off is done via the sheetcam rules and from what I can see it does it well. The ESS is not used by Neuron, the Neuron Arm feeds a M542 or Gecko unit which drives the Z axis. As far as timing goes, I have no idea and the bulk of my work is a 30IPM, that being said I have tested the unit under extreme conditions like steep ramps on thin material and it does work.

Maybe Andrew Shad can way in here for timing issues.....

-Shawn