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View Poll Results: How much do you make an hour (CNC only, no manual machinists)

Voters
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  • up to $17

    161 16.18%
  • $18

    71 7.14%
  • $19

    50 5.03%
  • $20

    111 11.16%
  • $21

    50 5.03%
  • $22 and over

    552 55.48%
Page 14 of 16 41213141516
Results 261 to 280 of 317
  1. #261
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    .....you can't have too many cooks in the kitchen.......some have to wither away and die......the bigger you get with that scenario the harder you fall when the cold wind blows.

    If everyone who went into business producing the same goods charged the same price for the product the market would be saturated........making the item cheaper in order to make more profit is an exercise and a balancing act where people are in the middle.
    People in the middle are totally squashed and being squeezed out, which I believe is how this thread started. There are too many cooks and nearly every market is totally saturated. In the 70s education was seen as the way out, but now even that is becoming totally irrelevant with many kids needing a degree just to be a barista.

    I disagree with your notion the bigger you are, the harder you fall. This country is now so dependent on companies like Woolworths, Coles, BP, Shell, Cisco, Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc that if they fall then everyone is going with them. We all live in a house of cards.

  2. #262
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Well, if a company has 10 employees and cannot make it to the finishing line through not having the buying power of a big company or the ability to write off unprofitable ventures.......it will fold and 10 people will be easier to find jobs than a large company with 500 people that closes the doors.

    Take GMH, Ford and Nissen,,,,,,, among others.....they closed down around 2000 and some people I know who were sub contractors went bust.........many of the employees of those companies took early retirement.

    BTW.....Woolworths is feeling the pinch.....they closed or are closing their Masters hardware outlets, they also sold off their petrol concessions to Caltex.......that is as big as you can imagine........Coles with Bunnings is still rearing to go.

    It has always been the way of life for a collection of smaller companies that get bought up and disappear with the original names vanishing along with the excess personnel that get put out to grass in a re-shuffle.

    Where are British Leyland....Triumph motor cycles etc........the list is a long one......but people fall by the wayside.....no job continuation as a norm.
    Ian.

  3. #263
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    The little places are closing so those 5 here and 3 there all add up, you just don't read about it in the paper. But what you say is true.

    Blacksmiths are no longer around and the skills they had are well gone. Not many kids now go out to the back shed, stoke up the forge and start pounding out a sword. CNC will/is the same. With the grass roots gone, as a hobby or a profession it wont be around in the future either.

    You can call this progress and life moves on, but I think it's sad. Machining has given me great joy and the mill in the garage runs nearly 24 x 7, but my kids wont pursue metal work of any kind because if you ask them, making stuff is a dead end... and they don't get why would you make something when you can buy it. It's partly for the same reasons I think 3D printing will never become mainstream.

  4. #264
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    You can't halt progress........mainly it's people who make things difficult for people without giving it a thought.........if there's a better way and you can go it alone.........the people you employed are just stepping stones to your ambition.....you don't owe them a cent for all the years they worked (for you) and made your profit margin.....they took that on when they agreed to work for a wage instead of demanding an equal share of the profits or no go.

    Even so, if the cards are on the table and the answer is you are going broke if you don't fold them....what fool holds onto a dead end solution........you have to rationalize very early or fall with the rest.

    The advent of automation did cut out a lot of jobs, increased supply and made things cheaper, but going back to the old days when automation was just a line of blokes hammering away for all their worth and sweat was the result........paying them low wages was the only answer to profitability......and sourcing raw material from a colony if that was the name of the game.

    I quite agree it's sad nobody makes things on the scale like they did say 50 years ago. but when you can buy something that is professionally made, cost little and you are in the money.....who wants to make it.

    Time and effort has been replaced by purchase power............some people I know still prowl junk sales and fix things, mainly because they are long in the tooth and have done that since the early days.......old habits die hard.

    As a matter of interest, one thing I have learned.......swim with the tide not against the stream if you want to come out on top.........for example, Nickel metal Hydride is now out and Lithium is in......Nickel Cadmium is as dead as the Dodo.

    I have several cordless drills running on NmH rechargeable batts......the charge is never there when I want to use one......the latest Ozito 10mm cordless 2 speed drill driver with a 14 volt 1.5 Ah lithium battery is still rearing to go 2 weeks after I put it down........the Ryobi 18 volt 800 MaH Nmh drill battery dies after 3 days.

    I'm going to build a Lithium battery power pack to revitalise the Ryobi drills.....four 3.7 volt 4,000 MaH lithium batteries the size of a AA battery cost $20 on Ebay.
    Ian.

  5. #265
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Blacksmiths are no longer around and the skills they had are well gone.
    Hum ....
    You should come to the local half-yearly Artists' Festival. Production line blacksmithing may have died in the face of superior products from machines, but CUSTOM creations are positively thriving! And people are willing to pay for the craftsmanship. There's a local guy with two Trumpf lasers making steel house signs: your picture, his 5 mm steel plate on his CNC.

    It's not all just dying; it is CHANGING. Do you really expect custom jewellery to be replaced by mass-produced stampings????
    It has been said that a late model Toyota Corolla is of a higher quality than an older Rolls Royce - because Toyota HAD to get it right or face massive product returns, but they had the production volume to do it.

    On the other hand, I do not question that the teenager who leaves school at the end of year 10 because he can't be bothered - or maybe because his parents are too stupid, is not going to do too well in our society.

    Cheers

  6. #266
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Hi....I don't quite see that analogy as holding water......I left school at year 10 because I had sufficient mathematics and engineering drawing skills to enable a 5 year apprenticeship as a Fitter and Turner to happen.

    Going on to year 12 would have reduced the apprenticeship to 4 years, but who needs 2 full years for all the History, Geography, Gen Science, Chemistry, Biology, English language and a foreign language, Religious Instruction too......with wood work and metal work only 2 days a week.......that would have been a total waste of time compared to going straight into the workshop and learning the trade at year 10......higher maths and engineering theory was done at night school 2 nights and a Saturday morning.

    It's different if you don't have a clue and drop out accordingly probably educated enough to serve burgers at your local fast food outlet......whatever.

    The change in engineering, and everything else you do, is a continuing one..... since my grand father was a Hansom Cab lamp fitter, way back when, the changes that have taken place since would have confused him no end.........my father never knew about computers and so never knew about CNC machining.......and we won't even think about the advances the car industry has undergone.
    Ian.

  7. #267
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Hi Ian
    I am talking about today, not when you left school!
    And in your case, you did not really leave school for another 5 years.
    Cheers
    Roger

  8. #268
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    I think the argument comes down to what you define as progress. Does driving in a car instead of a walking make me better... no! Do I think we are more progressive or achieve more than say those in the 1500s... no! Do I think I am wiser or smarter than those back then.. no! Actually I don't think much has changed between then and now at all. People are just people.

    To define progress you need to think about what moving forward means. I don't think the pursuit of money is progress, full stop. Maybe the pursuit of wisdom is, but most forgo that thinking knowledge is wisdom. Are we any happier than those that were running around the forests of Nottingham playing Robin Hood? I doubt it.

    The cycle we face with increasing unemployment and people losing skills is nothing new, the real problem is the only solution in history has been war... and who wants that?

  9. #269
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Hi....when you say war.......don't forget that most of the fast forward progress was as the result of war

    Tungsten Carbide was a direct result of the Germans need for industrial diamonds and being in short supply of them.

    I think the jet engine would be far from the marvel it is today if the war had not spurred it on a bit.

    BTW, when I mentioned school, in no way can you compare engineering night school to day school with 8 hours of boring subjects to fill your minds with......I have to wonder if school is just a way to get the kids off the streets and under stricter control.

    One things for sure, we had to pay to go to school as kids, but we got paid to sit at school and do the 5 years apprenticeship.

    Moving forward is progress.....nobody wants to go back to the old days.....imagine still drawing with a graphite pencil and a large Tee square on an inclined slope wooden drawing board......I did that at school and at night school too......I made my first drawing machine to make A4 drawings in 1975.....CAD came to me in 1995 when I was in the drawing office as a technician and was given a copy of Cadkey light to play with......on that note I don't think many people would want to get out in the rain and hand crank a car engine.

    Yeah, the good old days.....imagine using a calculator to add up pounds shillings and pence......the 12 base ststem......no wonder I failed arithmetic early on, I only have 10 fingers.....LOL
    Ian..

  10. #270
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Yeah, the good old days.....imagine using a calculator to add up pounds shillings and pence......the 12 base ststem......no wonder I failed arithmetic early on, I only have 10 fingers.....LOL
    Ian..
    Just to be clear Ian, I'm not saying the "good old days". I don't think the past is better than the future or the future is better than the past. ie. I think a cricketer has the same skill today as he did when the first ball was bowled.

    You use the words "moving forward", but what is that? What does that mean? As someone who has spent a lot of time studying 16th Century Europe, I concluded the life they lived was no better or worse than the life we have today. Quality of live for most individuals today still depends on where and who you are born as. Nothing has changed. We can argue meritocracy, but my view is thats pure politics to let the people *think* they are important. Regardless of what you did in your working life, once you leave (and in particular die) nobody cares.

    As for justifying war because it bought us the jet engine... please. It's funny because society pretends peoples lives are scared, but history shows people have little value until it comes to worrying about there own.

    So the way I see it, over time the human race hasn't moved forward anywhere. It's still the same game of survival that it was when philosopher socrates was around, just in a different form.

  11. #271
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    $65/hour I think is good enough, from drawing a 3D model all the way up to production (wood, metal plastic) I just switched trade and find CNC stuff is the best work for me, im in for a challenge kind of guy, CNC work requires 3 or more skill set, a combination of a computer technician + electrician + computer 3D designer + machinist + electronic technician now that`s a bit of a challenge hehehe

  12. #272
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    As someone who has spent a lot of time studying 16th Century Europe, I concluded the life they lived was no better or worse than the life we have today. Quality of live for most individuals today still depends on where and who you are born as.
    Forgive me if I disagree very strongly.
    Serfs and peasants had zero choice as to where they lived and what they did. They did not own property and were totally subject to their Lord's wishes (as in the nobility). There was zero choice.
    Life expectancy for the 'lower classes' was poor, through disease and malnutrition.
    Infant mortality was very high. You often see a list of 10-12 births with only one or two surviving to adulthood - and the mother often died in child birth. You still see this in parts of Africa and Asia today.
    The Wars of Religion were devastating at times. It sufficed to be accused. Be of the 'wrong' creed and you were dead. We still see this in some other religions today.

    my view is thats pure politics to let the people *think* they are important.
    True, but would you make the aristocracy/elite more important?

    I think we have progressed - a little.

    Cheers
    Roger

  13. #273
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Yeah, and how wages have increased for the work hours we now do...........anyone who harkens back to the good old days as the golden age of man......no matter where your starting point is.......is living with blinkers on......if plastics had not been invented the life we know today would be radically different.

    I think the 19th century would be the turning point in Man's evolution to modernity........about that time anaesthetics were invented and so hacking a rotten leg off became not such a traumatic event.....neither was extracting a tooth either......in either case you could still die from infection as antibiotics were still unheard of........any form of "moving forward" ultimately brings the mantle of civilisation a step closer to one and all.

    Dwelling in the past is OK if you had it made, but with wages as high as they are now, the USA is starting to realise, if not already resigned to the fact, that they will never match a low wage labour society for cost effective exports.

    The only way they can match the labour cost in the China syndrome is to devalue their dollar against all World currencies, maintain their high wage structure that their people have become accustomed to, and produce goods for home consumption only........that means all imports are immediately of a high price and will curb buying foreign made as opposed to buying the home product.

    I would like to work for $100 an hour, but not if a loaf of bread cost $100........perhaps Zimbabwe, with a million Zim dollar loaf of bread, is a lesson to be learned as to what inflation and a lack of a domestic product production strategy can do to your wages.

    Skill attributes have not changed........it's only the need for a particular skill that decides how much you are worth.........without "moving forward" and modernising your skill level, you will soon not be able to understand or embrace the progress that you are now faced with......don't ask me how I know.
    Ian.

  14. #274
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    The only way they can match the labour cost in the China syndrome is to devalue their dollar against all World currencies, maintain their high wage structure that their people have become accustomed to, and produce goods for home consumption only.
    I'll argue the other way on this one.
    I think the USA is headed towards competing very nicely with China in many areas, but they are doing it by total automation. Sure, Chinese labour might be cheap, but the quality sometimes suffers. The products from a fully automated production line work out cheaper and better.
    To be sure, that does not deal with the cheap end of the trivia market which China is so good at. Well, who cares? But China is headed for trouble there itself, as wages are soaring.
    Once again, the losers in this race will be the poorly educated and unskilled Americans (or Westerners in general).

    Interesting times.
    Cheers
    Roger

  15. #275
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Ian & Roger, people always crap on about wages, but they have little to do with anything. People are inefficient and waist full... that's it.

    Ah, the old world perception of China! Been there lately? I have been part of a relocation process, moving a factory from Berkley Vale NSW to Shanghai China. The Chinese factory is totally automated with robotics, but wages paid are much more than they were in Australia. This is largely due to expats now being employed OS to run the joint. However, every other cost associate with the business from rent to insurance was drastically reduced.

    Have you seen the film "The Gods must be Crazy"? I will never agree with you that now is better or that the past is better. It just evolves, but progress.. I don't think so.

  16. #276
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    The Chinese factory is totally automated with robotics, but wages paid are much more than they were in Australia. This is largely due to expats now being employed OS to run the joint.
    Really? Interesting.
    Do our pollies know this? Or is it an inconvenient truth for them?
    All the same, I find Chinese production to be extremely variable in quality.

    Yes to the film, and to the sequel. Really good.

    Cheers
    Roger

  17. #277
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Hi....my perception of the China scene is like a pimple on a pigs bottom........the surroundings are totally different to the pimple.

    China has a huge variety of scenes that have evolved very rapidly but minutely as the time went on......there is no real China that you could say was Chinese......most of the country is rural and peasant occupied with a lot of centres where the concentration of technology and living standards are high......go outside of those areas and the living standards are back to the stone age.

    That is no comparison to how we live in OZ, UK or USA etc.......China is a fast evolving maelstrom of high technology and old world methodology.......especially in their agricultural methods.

    In no way can you compare China with the Western World for living standards.

    BTW.....you don't have to go there to form an opinion.......many people have been there and produced docos that highlight the vast differences that occur across the full spectrum of the country.......food production, agriculture, village life, technology and living standards general.

    It's true you can make a high tech production unit just by importing the expertise and creating a microcosm of activity in the middle of a desert, but outside of that dome of excellence there is a totally different world that hasn't caught the bus yet or wants to.

    For argument sake........if I imported a $100k CNC machine and produced articles that were state of the art, that doesn't mean the rest of the village I live in can be considered a state of the art community.

    The rise of CNC technology has enabled many countries to do high tech production and output without having a highly skilled work force with years of experience.

    China has the ability, due to it's vast size and massive population spread to make huge inroads in the World markets without actually being totally committed to exports.

    This is a lot different to OZ, for example, where a huge export is like a local production output in China.

    In many ways China is obeying the laws of Nature where you overproduce in order to naturally cast aside that which doesn't make the grade.......one good reason why Chinese goods are considered "cheap Chinese junk"........but on the whole quite good quality if you sift the wheat from the chaff.
    Ian.

  18. #278
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Ian, I think your view is out of date, old world, and full of propaganda.

    Last time I was in China, we travelled from Shanghai to a garden village 600kms away that took 1.5 hours in a train that did over 500kph. The village itself was a nightmare. No english, no food we could relate too, no toilets, but the air was cold and crisp, and the people were friendly and non threatening. We felt a little unsafe and scared, but not too bad.

    Living standards in the village were much less than in the big city, and the people were poor, but lets quickly compare that to Australia.

    The fastest train we have does a top speed of 160kph and even then it's only for about 5 minutes because we have very little infrastructure that can support it. China infrastructure everywhere across the country is simply amazing. Australia is fully dependant on digging big holes in the ground and shipping dirt with no value add... and yet you criticise another country for engaging in simplistic agriculture? I would ask you to seriously review who's acting simplistically.

    Maybe you should get your grey nomad caravan and go to somewhere like Port Headland? First just check out how much gob smacking dirt is going out on ships each day, and then go have a look behind the hospital. Get a cab and ask to go there. You think Australia doesn't have poor people or people living in the stone age? Australia has more than its share of people living poorly... and they are everywhere.

    It's actually funny you don't think China produce quality. They have more than quality... they just don't sell it to the West, because the West demand cheap. If you go shopping for cnc in China, you can buy the best quality produced locally - they just don't export that. So just to be clear, it's not China that is cheap, it's the western countries who are all chasing efficiency and productivity... the things that you promote as progress.

    There is one very true thing I can say about China that I cant say about Australia. Never have I been a tourist in China and been called a c***t, racist f**k, d***head, w**ker, been spat on, had beer poured on me be by drunkards, been truely scared for my families safety, or seen overly aggressive people approach me and say "what the f**k you looking at?

  19. #279
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    Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    you don't think China produce quality. They have more than quality... they just don't sell it to the West, because the West demand cheap.
    Are you trying to say that 'You Get What You Pay For', or even worse, 'We Done It To Ourselves'? Outrageous suggestion!
    Resonates ...

    Cheers
    Roger

  20. #280
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    Post Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Are you trying to say that 'You Get What You Pay For', or even worse, 'We Done It To Ourselves'? Outrageous suggestion!
    Resonates ...
    :cheers:

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