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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?
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  1. #1
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    Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I am considering getting a 2-nozzle version to help reduce coolant fumes/mist in my small shop.
    I am currently running Koolmist 77 and mostly work with aluminum.
    Some pocketing and drilling.
    I would love to hear your thoughts, recommendations and experiences for using one day-today and eliminating flood coolant.

    I would be running it off of my 1 hp 4 gal Tormach cyclone air compressor that runs my atc.

    Thanks,
    Nathan

  2. #2
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I used a two-nozzle FogBuster on my Torus Pro. I was using Koolmist 78 in it and cut aluminum almost exclusively.

    I'd say it did a decent job for the most part. Deep and narrow pockets were where it had the most trouble. Getting those long nozzles to point at an angle that would get chips out of the bottom of the hole wasn't always possible so I'd have to come in with an air hose and blow the chips out sometimes if I thought chip weld was about to happen.

    Slots running perpendicular to the air stream were another area where it didn't perform very well. I had one nozzle on the right side of the tool and the other on the left, I've wondered if having them only 90° from each other would be better than 180°, but I never tried it.

    I would also occasionally get chip-weld when doing helical plunges. I would usually try to remember to crank up the coolant flow when it was about to start a pocket that way and that would usually solve the problem. It did mean I basically had to be standing by to babysit it though.

    Conversely, I would turn the coolant flow completely off, so it was only blowing air, if I was doing something that would create very small chips. Like when I was using a chamfering tool to deburr some edges. The normal volume of mist would just stick to the tiny chips and basically make aluminum "mud" that would stick to the part. I can't say that I actually detected any negative effects of the mud, but going to air only on those very light cuts didn't seem to have any negative impacts on quality either.

    Let's see...
    I used it with two different air compressors neither of them had trouble keeping up with the FogBuster. I forget their specs (and am too lazy at the moment to go check) but one is a California Air and one is a DeWalt, both are your average-size "portable"/wheeled, air compressors that you might find at Home Depot. They would basically run 50% of the time I was using the FogBuster.

    It might seem like I'm only listing the negatives... I figure the manufacturers can handle telling you the positives. It was great for filming! It really did consume very little coolant. Setup was easy enough. There was very little mess, the chips would fly around, but they were mostly dry at least.

  3. #3
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    Jun 2006
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    3063

    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I've been using Tormach's single-nozzle FogBuster for a couple years now and been generally happy with it. I tend to use too much lube, which makes more of a mess but there is absolutely no fog in the air. I use it with Hangsterfer S-500 coolant at about 15:1 dilution and have no trouble with rust even though I can be a bit of a slacker when it comes to cleaning up the mill. I run some repeat parts that pocket out aluminum about 1" diameter and 1.4" deep and it does a pretty good job blowing out the chips though I'll sometimes help it out with a blast from an air nozzle. I'm also using the Cyclone compressor and it cycles every 5-10 minutes depending on how much air pressure I use for the Fog Buster. I plug it into the coolant receptacle on the PCNC 1100 so the Fog Buster can turn it on automatically. The main problems I have with it is that it can blow chips around quite a bit and it can be difficult to get lube applied on one or more sides of a rectangular profile. Dual nozzles would go a long way toward solving that problem though. I'm happy that I bought it though and feel that it was well worth the price.

    Mike

  4. #4
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    Feb 2006
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    7063

    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I used a FogBuster for years, and finally retired it for flood. The FogBuster works well most of the time, but had an uncanny knack for not working well when I was not there watching it, which resulted in several broken/welded tools because it either couldn't put coolant where needed, or clogged, and stopped putting enough coolant out. For me, flood, while sometimes messy, is MUCH lower maintenance, and MUCH more reliable. The FogBuster worked well, when it worked well, and was pretty marginal at other times, especially in deep pockets. Unlike flood, it has a very small target area, and even with multiple nozzles, it's almost impossible to get good cooling everywhere unless you're sitting there re-aiming the nozzles periodically. With flood I can just turn it on and walk away. The FogBuster is also very noisy - like having a large leak in a high-pressure air hose the whole time it's running. Flood is nice and quiet. The high air velocity also blows chips everywhere. But, it is otherwise non-messy. If you're getting accumulation of coolant on your work or the machine, or you've got mist in the air, you've got it opened up WAY too far. When set properly, you'll just see a few tiny droplets skittering away from the target area, but no accumulation of liquid. And I could run all day on a half-gallon of mixed coolant, where I sometimes loose a gallon or two a day of flood. But, I can go a lot faster with flood, without worry, and that's important.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  5. #5
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    Aug 2013
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    Thanks for everyone's input. I am going to think about it a little more and try and tweak my ventilation a little more first.
    With the switches and plugs it will cost upward of $600
    Thanks
    Nathan

    Quote Originally Posted by CadRhino View Post
    I am considering getting a 2-nozzle version to help reduce coolant fumes/mist in my small shop.
    I am currently running Koolmist 77 and mostly work with aluminum.
    Some pocketing and drilling.
    I would love to hear your thoughts, recommendations and experiences for using one day-today and eliminating flood coolant.

    I would be running it off of my 1 hp 4 gal Tormach cyclone air compressor that runs my atc.

    Thanks,
    Nathan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    610

    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    Anyway rather than type forever I will submit a few videos of the single nozzle versions running on my PCNC 1100 and PCNC 770. I have flood coolant and fog busters on both and I run the fog buster 70% of the time- even in what most call difficult materials. I find that it is highly effective and replaces flood in all but a few feature based milling scenarios (i.e. deep pockets, undercut operations and hard core drilling). Ideally you would have 2 nozzles at 90 degrees to ensure coverage if you didn't want to babysit the operation at a high level. I use Kool Mist 77 mixed 75% more concentrated as recommended and don't have staining/rust even if I use my ugly high mineral tap water. All of my vises, 4th axises and any fixtures that are destined for long term get a hit of Amsoil's synthetic water resistant grease at the table contact surfaces before they are placed on the table for service intended to be > 7 days. The videos here are both machining parts in 304 stainless steel. Most of my work is 304 and titanium grade 5. I have done a decent amount of 7075, 2024 and 6061 aluminum using the same set-up with nearly identical results.

    304 L Stainless Steel Slotting Operation and Helical Interpolation of a Hole with PCNC 1100 - YouTube

    Custom Stainless Kitchen Knife Handles PCNC 770 - YouTube

  7. #7
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    Feb 2006
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    7063

    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    pickled mentioned one of the key reasons I ditched KoolMist77 and the FogBuster - KoolMist absolutely sucks for drilling, especially in aluminum. It is a coolant, and it has essentially zero lubricity. And, of course, it does not get into the drilled holes at all, so is nearly useless as a coolant for drilling as well. I had to back WAY off on my drilling parameters, especially for deep holes.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  8. #8
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    Aug 2013
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    980
    Hi pickled
    Thanks for posting those videos. That was impressive. You were cutting SS like I have been cutting 6061 on my 1100. I realize I have been way too timid on my cutting speeds.
    Back to the fog buster, it is clear it can do the job even with a 1" deep pockets. I was surprised you could see dropping coolant but it is nothing like flood.
    Do you have the tormach switch that allows M7M8 & M9 selection so you can cam select if you want flood or fog or do you manually change/switch between flood and fog?
    I am afraid that if I go with the two nozzle setup I will need a compressor larger than the 1hp 4 gallon cyclone I bought with my machine.
    The fogbuster tech I spoke with yesterday did say I could just physically clamp one of the lines to one of the nozzles if I wanted to use just one nozzle.

    Thanks again for the educational videos.

    Nathan

    Quote Originally Posted by pickled View Post
    Anyway rather than type forever I will submit a few videos of the single nozzle versions running on my PCNC 1100 and PCNC 770. I have flood coolant and fog busters on both and I run the fog buster 70% of the time- even in what most call difficult materials. I find that it is highly effective and replaces flood in all but a few feature based milling scenarios (i.e. deep pockets, undercut operations and hard core drilling). Ideally you would have 2 nozzles at 90 degrees to ensure coverage if you didn't want to babysit the operation at a high level. I use Kool Mist 77 mixed 75% more concentrated as recommended and don't have staining/rust even if I use my ugly high mineral tap water. All of my vises, 4th axises and any fixtures that are destined for long term get a hit of Amsoil's synthetic water resistant grease at the table contact surfaces before they are placed on the table for service intended to be > 7 days. The videos here are both machining parts in 304 stainless steel. Most of my work is 304 and titanium grade 5. I have done a decent amount of 7075, 2024 and 6061 aluminum using the same set-up with nearly identical results.

    304 L Stainless Steel Slotting Operation and Helical Interpolation of a Hole with PCNC 1100 - YouTube

    Custom Stainless Kitchen Knife Handles PCNC 770 - YouTube

  9. #9
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    610

    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I just manually switch my coolant plugs, but I should look at the alternative because it would make my life a little easier on some part runs. A dual head unit on that size compressor would probably have it cycling quite a bit. My single head on the 770 runs off the 2.5 gallon version of the airless compressor and it kicks on quite often while milling. My 1100 is linked right to a 40 gallon compressor line that feeds general air to my shop and is good to go. There is a place for flood and fog buster in my world....as well as straight compressed air and a shop vac at times. Good luck.

  10. #10
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    608

    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    Gentleman, I too have recently acquired a fogbuster. I too feel that is needs too much air and blows chips all over the place at times. However it does not make a mess with the controlled misting.
    I have some questions.

    Fobusters gave me some Hangsterfers S-500cf which I did try and cleans up from parts very nicely.
    I did reach out of the local representative and he mentioned that I needed to clean my machine really well to free it from fungus and bacteria !! - I tried to ask him what he meant but I am not sure I understood.

    He kept referring to a sump and machine table ect.

    I have the S500cf inside the reservoir of the fogbuster, and I am concerned about it growing fungus and bacteria... how long does it take for that to go bad in there? My machine is inside an A/C space.
    Since I sprayed my table and clamps, are they contaminated? What kind of fungus and bacteria am I dealing with?

    -Concerned.

  11. #11
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I don't know about the Hangsterfer S-500CF but the S-500 that I've been using for several years in both flood and Fog Buster setups shows absolutely no tendency whatsoever to support mold or bacterial growth. I've had a bucket with the residue from my 1st flood coolant tank fill sitting in the basement for the past few years and there is no growth or odor from that at all.

    Mike

  12. #12
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I have a 2 nozzle Fog Buster on my machine. I use it exclusively for profiling and surfacing but it doesn't work that well for pocketing, drilling, tapping or reaming.

    I put 100 PSI into the Fog Buster, and 12 PSI coming out of it. The folks who make the Fog Buster told me if I could see the coolant coming out of the nozzle, that's too much. I'll put a tissue in front of the nozzle and when it's wet, that's enough coolant. I have the 1/2 gallon reservoir and that will last close to 2 weeks.

    I bit the bullet about 2 1/2 years ago and bought a Kaeser 3 1/2 HP screw compressor and have never regretted that for a second. Yeah, it was expensive ($3,500.00 for the compressor head) I have about $4,500.00 in the whole system, but it will charge a 60 gallon tank in less than 2 minutes.

    AND, if I need parts for my Fog Buster, they are made less than 3 miles from my shop/home.
    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.

  13. #13
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    Jun 2008
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    FoxCNC1, I don't think you'll have to worry about fungus growing in a FogBuster tank. I'm no expert, but I think the "there is stuff growing in my tank" issue is mostly caused by foreign material getting into a tank. The coolant in the FogBuster tank should remain pretty pure.

  14. #14
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I used some tap water, so I am guessing that eventually will grow something? I see a little bit on condensation in the tank but I am not as concerned now.thank you.

  15. #15
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I have never had any growth in my fog buster systems. The person who was talking to you might have been thinking of mist systems (oil based) that had large recirculating sumps. Now my flood coolant sumps, however, have mushroomed out before...NASTY. I have a regimen of scrubbing these up then sanitizing my flood equipment using a revolving mix of Star-San and Quaternary Ammonium Compounds. I just wash the fog buster lines and head every once in a while in mild soapy water to be safe. Maintenance of a flood system (i.e. taking care of foreign material, tramp oil elimination and concentration checking) goes a LONG way in preventing the outgrowth of toxic molds and unwanted bacteria.

  16. #16
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    FoxCNC,

    Bacterial growth is most often caused by tramp oil causing a film on top of the coolant in the tank and creating an anerobic environment that encourages the growth of certain bacteria. The Fog Buster is a total loss system i.e. you don't recover any of it, so that isn't an issue.

    bob

  17. #17
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    thank you guys. So what I am gathering is that I let my un-used fluid sit in the reservoir abd line (residue) for a long time with any worrying about any harmful bacteria etc.
    I have little one which comes into my office/studio where the machine is and I just don't want us to get ill.

  18. #18
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I used a FogBuster with KoolMist 77 for years, and never once had ANY growth. I even had a 10+ gallon tub full of the stuff sitting for almost 2 years, with no growth. Same with the Rustlick WS5050 flood coolant I've been using since. Never cleaned or flushed anything.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  19. #19
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    I use the single nozzle Fogbuster, and just switched from the Tormach Premier coolant to Rustlick WS-5050 and it is quite a good difference.

    The Rustlick gives enough lubrication for deep drilling in aluminum, which means I don't have to stand there and spray wd40, in addition to the Tormach coolant in order to drill a hole. Seems a little better for milling too, but the drilling is where the big difference is.

    I was thinking of going to a flood system for drilling, but just changing the coolant in the Fogbuster has me now thinking that I will be just fine as it is.

    I use 15-20 PSI on my fogbuster, which seems to be plenty to blow chips out of the way.

  20. #20
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    Re: Any fog buster users care to share their experiences?

    Quote Originally Posted by X35 Design View Post
    I use the single nozzle Fogbuster, and just switched from the Tormach Premier coolant to Rustlick WS-5050 and it is quite a good difference.

    The Rustlick gives enough lubrication for deep drilling in aluminum, which means I don't have to stand there and spray wd40, in addition to the Tormach coolant in order to drill a hole. Seems a little better for milling too, but the drilling is where the big difference is.

    I was thinking of going to a flood system for drilling, but just changing the coolant in the Fogbuster has me now thinking that I will be just fine as it is.

    I use 15-20 PSI on my fogbuster, which seems to be plenty to blow chips out of the way.
    I have known several people over the years who have used Rustlick products for both flood and spray applications, and every one of them developed skin irritation problems within about 3 months.

    I use a combination of flood coolant and Fogbuster products. I have a dual nozzle unit and for profiling and surfacing, you can't beat it. For dripping, tapping and pocketing, it sucks.

    I'm going to start 2 jobs tomorrow that require a .098 diameter hole to be drilled 4.5 inches deep in 100 pieces each of 1/4 and 3/16 thick material .25 from the edge of the 1/4 inch material and .094 from the edge of the 3/16 material and I'll be using flood coolant exclusively. And I will be using only BlazoCut 2000 Universal coolant.
    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.

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