[cadguy247]

could anyone tell me the advantages / disadvantages between the two? I have no 4 axis experience at all so I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between the two other than the fact that one Is a lathe, which seems like that would be a plus

[CNC-Dude]

Boy, I can think of a ton!

1. The 4th axis rotary table (RT) will be far more rigid than the lathe with the 4th axis attachment.
2. The RT will allow you for higher diameter parts. The lathe swing over bed is something like 7 inches, so this will be your limit.
3. The RT will allow for longer parts. The lathe has a tailstock and there is so much you can push it out without using some sort of extender. The RT's tailstock is separate.
4. The RT allows for a trunion. That's going to be tough, not to mention limited, with the lathe.
5. With the RT you can place all sorts of chucks, 5C collets and pretty much anything you can bolt to the rotary table. The lathe will be limited on what you can attach, plus the chuck repertoire is rather small.
6. The RT can be used both as an A axis as well as a C axis. The lathe can only be used as an A axis. The A axis is when the axis is parallel to X and perpendicular to Y and Z, or the RT's vertical position. The C axis is when the RT's axis is parallel to the Z axis and perpendicular to both the X and Y axis, or the horizontal position (flat on the mill table).
7. I don't think the lathe will be able to withstand the same cutting forces the RT table can.
8. You can't use coolant with the lathe, but can with the RT.

The duality lathe was a cool gimmick Tormach came up with so that people could enjoy from both CNC milling and CNC lathing. To be honest, the first thing they realized is that this tool was insurmountably under powered, which is why they quickly designed something much more deserving of the name CNC lathe. Don't take me wrong. The Duality Lathe is a cool little trinket, but that's pretty much it. My biggest project on the Duality Lathe? Selling it! I didn't even bother learning how to use it and as of today have not regretted the move.

[cadguy247]

Boy, I can think of a ton!

1. The 4th axis rotary table (RT) will be far more rigid than the lathe with the 4th axis attachment.
2. The RT will allow you for higher diameter parts. The lathe swing over bed is something like 7 inches, so this will be your limit.
3. The RT will allow for longer parts. The lathe has a tailstock and there is so much you can push it out without using some sort of extender. The RT's tailstock is separate.
4. The RT allows for a trunion. That's going to be tough, not to mention limited, with the lathe.
5. With the RT you can place all sorts of chucks, 5C collets and pretty much anything you can bolt to the rotary table. The lathe will be limited on what you can attach, plus the chuck repertoire is rather small.
6. The RT can be used both as an A axis as well as a C axis. The lathe can only be used as an A axis. The A axis is when the axis is parallel to X and perpendicular to Y and Z, or the RT's vertical position. The C axis is when the RT's axis is parallel to the Z axis and perpendicular to both the X and Y axis, or the horizontal position (flat on the mill table).
7. I don't think the lathe will be able to withstand the same cutting forces the RT table can.
8. You can't use coolant with the lathe, but can with the RT.

The duality lathe was a cool gimmick Tormach came up with so that people could enjoy from both CNC milling and CNC lathing. To be honest, the first thing they realized is that this tool was insurmountably under powered, which is why they quickly designed something much more deserving of the name CNC lathe. Don't take me wrong. The Duality Lathe is a cool little trinket, but that's pretty much it. My biggest project on the Duality Lathe? Selling it! I didn't even bother learning how to use it and as of today have not regretted the move.

I see, thanks for the enlightenment. How about the tilting rotary tables that Tormach sells, any drawbacks to those? and how do those compare to the super spacer ones that they sell?

[kstrauss]

For me their weight is a huge issue. The shipping weight on the 8-inch tilting is 165 pounds and 200 pounds for the super spacer. The good news is that the super spacer has a 2.47-inch centre hole.

[Tkamsker]

Cnc dude i dont know the tormach lathe but i have a vmc Mill a german 4th axis and an cnc lathe there Are Jobs where the 4th axis is much better than a lathe but some Jobs are better done by a lathe ...
I dont agree with Cutting length and forces my 4th axis can take a lot of forces but there is a Limit my lathe is for sure strong er in some cut s .. just my 5 cents ...

[pickled]

Tkamsker you would agree with Cnc Dude about cutting forces if you had any experience with Tormach's Duality Lathe vs. their 4th axis offerings. It is basically a slightly higher quality 7x10 with location features for mounting in the bed and a fragile optical sensor encoder combo for RPM monitoring. I own one and have now become frustrated with it to the point that its rigidity and power are now used to hold down some R8 collets in a box on a shelf. It's good for wax and wood and if you are really patient you can do some work in aluminum and brass. The OP would be FAR better served to either buy a 4th axis (space saver looks pretty good due to bore size and compatibility with upgrades like the ATC), or saving up for a real lathe if he needs to turn parts vs. index and rotary machining. Best of luck to you cadguy!

[CNC-Dude]

Cnc dude i dont know the tormach lathe but i have a vmc Mill a german 4th axis and an cnc lathe there Are Jobs where the 4th axis is much better than a lathe but some Jobs are better done by a lathe ...
I dont agree with Cutting length and forces my 4th axis can take a lot of forces but there is a Limit my lathe is for sure strong er in some cut s .. just my 5 cents ...

TKamster, just so that we are all on the same page, we are discussing here the Duality Lathe from Tormach which is not to be confused with their 15L Slant-Pro Lathe. They are both CNC Lathes, but the Duality Lathe requires the PCNC1100 to become a CNC Lathe. Otherwise, it is just a conventional 7x10 mini lathe. But to be honest, comparing these two lathes is like comparing a Cessna to a 747.

Also, my statements have to do with using the Duality Lathe as a 4th axis (which is an option Tormach offers), and not using the rotary table 4th axis as a lathe. I completely agree with you! There are some items which are better done on a lathe and whoever doesn't want to see this will require the 3 tons worth of concrete removed from their eyes ;-)

[CNC-Dude]

I see, thanks for the enlightenment. How about the tilting rotary tables that Tormach sells, any drawbacks to those? and how do those compare to the super spacer ones that they sell?

Cadguy, you got me on the tilting rotary tables. The little that I know is that the tilting operation is manual. For the stuff that I do, I don't need this feature. Perhaps your projects require something akin to a 5th axis, but be aware this won't be automated unless you do some serious hacking. The amount of work something like that will require, though, would be considerably steeper than buying a 5th axis machine!

I also know very little about the super spacers, but I imagine the reason why they are being offered is because the typical rotary table won't fix on your machine if you have an ATC. Whoever wants to have both has milled the rotary table top in order to fit the ATC height requirements.

The super spacer wasn't available when I acquired the 4th axis. If I were buying today, I might consider it. The 4th axis may seem like a cheaper option but be aware that by the time you add the chuck, the mounting plate and the tailstock, you are looking at pretty much what the super spacer sells for. I think I acquired my set for something near $1900 but this was before Tormach raised their prices about 3 years ago. Something tells me the rotary table will eventually become obsolete. That super spacer sure looks nice! But that is all I know.

Good luck on your search and keep us posted on what route you eventually go for!

[cadguy247]

I would imagine that the 5C collect system works fine with the super spacer tables , correct?

[CNC-Dude]

All of these attachments should work with either. Do note some of them have 4 holes at 90 degrees, to match the Rotary Table which also has 4 slots at 90 degrees.

By looking at the picture, it seems like the Super Spacer's base plate has 6 slots at 60 degrees which means you may need to add your own holes to the 5C collet plate. This of course applies to the 5C Collet Chuck (30294). The 5C Collet fixture (31415) is OK because it only requires two mounting screws.

Adding holes to any mounting plate should be no problem as after all, now you have a rotary table which is precisely what you would use to do this accurately!

[cadguy247]

All of these attachments should work with either. Do note some of them have 4 holes at 90 degrees, to match the Rotary Table which also has 4 slots at 90 degrees.

By looking at the picture, it seems like the Super Spacer's base plate has 6 slots at 60 degrees which means you may need to add your own holes to the 5C collet plate. This of course applies to the 5C Collet Chuck (30294). The 5C Collet fixture (31415) is OK because it only requires two mounting screws.

Adding holes to any mounting plate should be no problem as after all, now you have a rotary table which is precisely what you would use to do this accurately!

Would the Morse Taper be in the base plate since the table has a thru hole? Since the taper is what aligns the 5C with the table, or would it have to be indicated in every time?

[Tkamsker]

Hi,
now we are on the same page my bad i thought that this Duality Lathe was only an try like the Injection Mold
i have seen the video .

So i am interested because my next project is a trunnion setup (i already have bought the harmonic drive ) and i bought also an manual 4th axis to convert it to cnc.
i have an VMC similar to tormach (but build in Europe ) where i have plenty of room in Z axis

So thank you for the info thomas