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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    5

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    and coming back to frequency question: I think this guy from another forum is mostly close to the subject, see below:

    Typical power supply for a glass tube laser has two main basic control inputs.

    1. TTL 5v signal that turns the laser on and off.

    This can be done very rapidly. Example high speed engraving.

    The AWC608 has a PPI feature. Whereby it turns the laser on an off while cutting, to produce a pulsed cutting action. Adjustable and called "Pulse Per Inch"

    2. The milliamp output of the laser power supply is controlled in one of two ways:

    A. 0 to 5V analogue signal. With 0v signal resulting in zero milliamp power supply output. And 5v resulting in maximum milliamp output. This method is usually used with a manually adjusted potentiometer. (Or Laser Power Dial)

    B. PWM or "Pulse Width Modulation", sometimes called "Pulse Duration Modulation". Magnitude being the TTL voltage level (5v). Recommended frequency for my power supply is 20khz. The percentage of "on time" controls the power supply output. 0% resulting in zero milliamp output and 99% resulting in maximum milliamp output. This method is usually used by controllers like the AWC608 etc.

    This PWM should not be confused with frequency as it relates to RF excited laser tubes as used in major US made lasers. And neither should PPI.

    Usually the PWM signal is smoothed internally by the power supply, with a little circuitry, to reproduce the 0 to 5v analogue signal.

    Varying the PWM frequency of a glass tube laser power supply should have no effect on the cutting characteristics. Moving too far away from the recommended frequency, will just destabilise the level of power modulation control, that the laser controller has over the laser power supply.

    So if you are adjusting the PWM frequency in the belief that you are legitimately adjusting cutting characteristics, then IMO you are fooling yourself.

    Again this is all about DC excited glass tube lasers. Not to be confused with ULS, Trotec, Epilog, etc.

    Greolt

  2. #22

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    BatChat,

    Okay, so correct me if I do not have the problem correctly. The situation is as follows: 1. You have the original laser tube and laser HVPS installed in the X700. 2. You do not know if the tube is bad, the HVPS is bad or if both are bad. 3. I am assuming that you have 220V single phase power in your country.

    If you have 110V power, as we do in the US, then just make sure that you have 220V at the AC input to the HVPS. If you have 110, the X700 will come on, but the laser will only produce plasma at the electrodes.

    There is a way to test the HVPS output, but it needs a huge resistor. When you test the return output of the laser, most of the amperage is being used by the laser tube to produce the laser tube plasma. You can test the output of the Laser HVPS by replacing the Laser Tube with a dummy loading resistor. This can be dangerous, as in lethal, if you do not do it correctly. I do not have the procedure, but I will see if I can find it online and give you the URL However, I would personally replace the tube and the HVPS as a unit.

    One thing you should keep in mind, glass CO2 tubes have a shelf life. If your tube is several years old, it could be expired.

    My understanding is that in order for the RECI Laser Tube Warranty to be in effect, you must have a RECI approved HVPS. My understanding is that the PWM is one of the reasons that RECI requires that. As such, when I installed my tube, I also installed a RECI HVPS for the laser tube. See the picture of the HVPS installed in one of my X700's.

    Hope this helps.

    Rinconchuck
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20160312_161851.jpg  

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    5

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Hello Rinconchuck!

    You are absolutely right about all 3 points. Unfortunately I do not have this huge resistor. But fortunately I found a good supplier who sold me Reci tube and HVPS with a good discount. Now I have to wait for 3-4 weeks till they arrive here in KZ from China. Then this supplier will make all your efforts with upgrading my X700 with Reci items which you described here in the beginning )))
    I hope that my current HVPS is good and I will sell it …but first I need to find somebody with 60W laser tube to check it. Also I’d like to check whether factory tube will work with Reci HVPS or not.. Then I could use it for some time.
    Thank you and let’s keep in touch!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    4

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Hello, i just get my X700 with a 100w reci laser, actually i just did some test engraving on wood and below 40% power it will not fire, i need to put at least 50% to get some burn on the wood, its the actual wooden crate the laser came with i am using . Could you confirm you have same setting for the Machine Param? i messed up with the setting and i think that maybe i have change something which is causing the laser not to work as it should. Attachment 317156

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    5

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Hello, lemartien,
    what about me: I am still waiting for my tube from China )) And also we decided to order the factory tube, i.e. not Reci. This is because we asked the supplier to send us the pic of Reci tube and found that they were selling old Reci tubes - at least 3 years Reci have not produced this kind of old tubes.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    4

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    I just check the price for a 100W reci s2 with factory and the price is doubled that from what i paid with Redsail. 320usd with redsail and 628usd with Reci. thats a huge difference and excluding shipping freight.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Quote Originally Posted by BatChat View Post
    Hello, lemartien,
    what about me: I am still waiting for my tube from China )) And also we decided to order the factory tube, i.e. not Reci. This is because we asked the supplier to send us the pic of Reci tube and found that they were selling old Reci tubes - at least 3 years Reci have not produced this kind of old tubes.
    hi,
    are you also going to change the lens ?

    G

  8. #28

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Gelouk,

    I did not change any of the optics. Haven't seen any problems to this point in time, and it has been over a year since I made the change. Very happy with my RECI tube and happy with the results. - Rinconchuck

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    5

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Where do I check on my HPVS to see if it is a Reci brand. My machine has a Reci 100 watt CO2 tube from the factory and it won't fire when set above 75% power.

  10. #30

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Quote Originally Posted by zee2ker View Post
    Where do I check on my HPVS to see if it is a Reci brand. My machine has a Reci 100 watt CO2 tube from the factory and it won't fire when set above 75% power.
    Be careful with the HVPS, under the right conditions it has lethal voltages!

    What brand is your laser, is it a Redsail? Check on the back of your laser, there should be a tag stating who the manufacturer is. Once you know for sure what brand it is, contact your manufacturer for ideas and get the maximum working Ma of the tube . I have found Redsail to be fairly quick in responding to my inquiries. Other manufacturers, apparently, can be good or bad about getting back to you. For a Reci tube you can contact Reci directly for this info.

    I have installed two different Reci power supplies in two different machines (a Redsail X700 and a Redsail M900, I have a second Redsail X700, but it has a 80 watt SPT laser tube). In both cases, there were no distinquishing marks showing it as a Reci HVPS. Instead I had to rely on my vendors to provide with the correct HVPS.

    Have you done the following? 1. Place a multi-meter on Amp setting (or an Amp meter) in-line with the laser tube return line (this is the little wire near the laser exit lens). 2. Turn on the laser and set your laser controller output to 100%. While monitoring the return amperage on the multi-metier or the amp meter, run the laser tube for a few moments. Compare this reading with the recommended working current (amperage) for your tube. Reci recommends that a W4 tube (100W) should be no more than 26 to 28 Ma, with 26 Ma recommended. If you set you tube in this way, you will get the maximum life out of your tube. The tube set this way, should fire all the way to 100 %.on the controller. 3. If the output is to low or to high, there is an adjustment screw on your HVPS to either raise or lower you return current from your laser. Consult the documentation of your HVPS for the location and type of adjustment required.

    If none of this helps, try the folks at www.lightobject.com, they sell Reci laser tubes and HVPS's for repair and upgrade.

    Final thought, if you have a Ruida controller (either a 320or a 6442), there is a vendor setting that allows you to set the max % at which the laser will fire. Most controllers are set at either 100% or 99%, but if yours is set at 75% for any reason, it would not fire above 75%.

    Hope this helps and does not muddy the waters.

    rinconchuck

  11. #31
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Quote Originally Posted by rinconchuck View Post
    Be careful with the HVPS, under the right conditions it has lethal voltages!

    What brand is your laser, is it a Redsail? Check on the back of your laser, there should be a tag stating who the manufacturer is. Once you know for sure what brand it is, contact your manufacturer for ideas and get the maximum working Ma of the tube . I have found Redsail to be fairly quick in responding to my inquiries. Other manufacturers, apparently, can be good or bad about getting back to you. For a Reci tube you can contact Reci directly for this info.

    I have installed two different Reci power supplies in two different machines (a Redsail X700 and a Redsail M900, I have a second Redsail X700, but it has a 80 watt SPT laser tube). In both cases, there were no distinquishing marks showing it as a Reci HVPS. Instead I had to rely on my vendors to provide with the correct HVPS.

    Have you done the following? 1. Place a multi-meter on Amp setting (or an Amp meter) in-line with the laser tube return line (this is the little wire near the laser exit lens). 2. Turn on the laser and set your laser controller output to 100%. While monitoring the return amperage on the multi-metier or the amp meter, run the laser tube for a few moments. Compare this reading with the recommended working current (amperage) for your tube. Reci recommends that a W4 tube (100W) should be no more than 26 to 28 Ma, with 26 Ma recommended. If you set you tube in this way, you will get the maximum life out of your tube. The tube set this way, should fire all the way to 100 %.on the controller. 3. If the output is to low or to high, there is an adjustment screw on your HVPS to either raise or lower you return current from your laser. Consult the documentation of your HVPS for the location and type of adjustment required.

    If none of this helps, try the folks at www.lightobject.com, they sell Reci laser tubes and HVPS's for repair and upgrade.

    Final thought, if you have a Ruida controller (either a 320or a 6442), there is a vendor setting that allows you to set the max % at which the laser will fire. Most controllers are set at either 100% or 99%, but if yours is set at 75% for any reason, it would not fire above 75%.

    Hope this helps and does not muddy the waters.

    rinconchuck

    Not quite right. If your controller is locked at 75%, it means that the max power is locked to the ceiling, 75%. If you set 'layer' power to 95%, the power will be limited to 75%. By the way, make sure you check for the max current vs. max%. For example, a 100W tube usually can reach full power (100W) at 25~26m. But a 100W laser power supply can delivery up to 34~36mA which is high enough to damage the laser tube from day to day operation. It won't kill the tube instantly but the life span may drop from 3000hrs to 500hrs or even worst. Make sure you have a current meter installed in your machine to monitor the max current. FYI, Reci is playing really hard for bad tube claim due to over current case. If the metal ring (inside of the laser tube) shows sign of purple color (over current), they will void the warranty instantly!!

    Regards
    Marco
    LightObject

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    9

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Quote Originally Posted by speedythinker View Post
    Not quite right. If your controller is locked at 75%, it means that the max power is locked to the ceiling, 75%. If you set 'layer' power to 95%, the power will be limited to 75%. By the way, make sure you check for the max current vs. max%. For example, a 100W tube usually can reach full power (100W) at 25~26m. But a 100W laser power supply can delivery up to 34~36mA which is high enough to damage the laser tube from day to day operation. It won't kill the tube instantly but the life span may drop from 3000hrs to 500hrs or even worst. Make sure you have a current meter installed in your machine to monitor the max current. FYI, Reci is playing really hard for bad tube claim due to over current case. If the metal ring (inside of the laser tube) shows sign of purple color (over current), they will void the warranty instantly!!

    Regards
    Marco
    LightObject
    Hello, I have a chinese laser cutting machine, a copy of a RedSail. I am having problems with the power of the co2 tube. Where can I check the max power in the controller to see if it is at a low %? Sorry for my bad english, I.m from Venezuela .. THanks in advance for any answer you can give me.

    Arqmoe,
    Caracas, Venezuela

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by arqmoe View Post
    Hello, I have a chinese laser cutting machine, a copy of a RedSail. I am having problems with the power of the co2 tube. Where can I check the max power in the controller to see if it is at a low %? Sorry for my bad english, I.m from Venezuela .. THanks in advance for any answer you can give me.

    Arqmoe,
    Caracas, Venezuela
    What controller card came with your laser machine?

    -Marco
    Lightobject

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    9

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Hello, where can I find which controller came with the laser machine?

    Thanks,

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    9

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Quote Originally Posted by speedythinker View Post
    What controller card came with your laser machine?

    -Marco
    Lightobject
    Hello, where can I find which controller came with the laser machine?

    Thanks,

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Post the image of your controller and I may be able to tell
    Or email me: [email protected]

    -Marco
    LightObject

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28

    Re: 100W Reci Tube Installed in Redsail X700

    Quote Originally Posted by rinconchuck View Post
    I have recently replaced my Redsail X700's 60w factory Redsail laser tube with a 100w 1200mm long Reci tube. I thought that I would share a few thoughts and pics on the process.

    1. The Reci tube is 80mm in diameter vs. the factory tube being 60mm. This size difference requires a change to larger tube mounts. There is a family of plastic 80mm mounts that are usually sold by the folks who sell Reci tubes. They come in three sizes; short height, medium height and tall height. The Redsail X700 needs the short mount. If you have a different make or model of laser engraver, measuring before you order mounts will make your life a lot easier. Measure twice, cut once!

    2. The new laser mounts will need new holes drilled in the X700 case to attach them to the case. If you try to attach them using the original mounting holes, the mounts will interfere with either hardware in the laser or the cooling outlet on the laser tube. Drilling the holes was really quite easy. I put tape on the old holes.

    3. I replaced the original Laser Power Supply with an approved Reci PS. This is important, as apparently no vendor will honor the warranty on the Reci tube if you are using a non-approved power supply. Be sure to note the wiring identification on the old PS, as the Reci PS is laid out differently. I also had to solder wire extensions as the plugs were located in different spots on the PS and Redsail made the original wiring very short. A little attention here will make your PS replacement very easy!

    4. I did a quick eyeball alignment of the tube, put tape on the first mirror and fired it up. First shot was low. Quick adjustment and the it was right on dead center.
    I have included pics that show the tube being installed, laser alignment and targets used until I had dot on dot in all four corners of the work area. This build, adding the higher powered tube was trouble free and went faster than I had expected. I am now enjoying faster cuts and engraving!

    If anybody has any questions regarding this upgrade, feel free to contact me.

    @rinconchuck , are you sure it is RECI 100W tube? The Reci 100W should have length about 1.4M (55.5") as opposite to 1.2M (47.5") which is a 80W tube. But a lot of seller or manufacturer nowaday like to use 'rated' power. They will rate the 80W to 90W, same thing happen to SPT. May be technology got improvement, otherwise 1.2M long tube should be a 80W (may be 90~95W peak)

    Marco
    LightObject

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