[handlewanker]

Hi, I remember my father saying that during the WW2 episode a whole bunch of women machinists put out more work because the wanted to than a whole bunch of men who put out work because someone paid them extra to.

I would hazard a guess and say that on a level playing field, in the make up of shopfloor workshop personnel, not more than 10% of the mix are women and doing the same job as men as a career of choosing.

There are areas in the metalworking industry where women do compete and also excel, but in my opinion( experience) metal working for women is a rarified occupation.

I have never met a female fitter and turner, and some of the work I have done would not suit a woman no matter how focused or enthusiastic they were.

The present rise of CNC machining has enabled the women to penetrate into the male domain without having to experience the full spectrum of the engineering environment.

That is not to say they don't enjoy their work, whatever turns you on etc, and you can still take pride in your achievements.

I speak from old school engineering as opposed to the present trend of CNC machine orientated production and automated tool guidance.

Once 3D printing becomes the main production method, it will be all over for the engineering world as I know it.

I can see Women using 3d machines to create a part, but I cannot see a woman wanting to make the 3D machine itself..........therein lies the difference.

By the same comparison, I have not heard of any woman on this forum indulging in the actual making of a CNC mill, router or lathe per se......using one perhaps,...........therein also lies the difference.

By choice I would rather make a washing machine than use one.
Ian.

[night owl]

Hi Guys,
Speaking as a cnc maintenance tech, I know of 3 female cnc operators, in a company of 500+ cnc operators. That puts them at less than one percent here. I would rate them all above average. Personally, I wish we had more female cnc operators. They are more helpful when I am working on their machines, they never wreck their machines, they are not arrogant, whiny, manipulative, or lazy like most of the men are.
And they smell better, too!
Cheers,
night owl

[handlewanker]

Hi......operators......are we on the same wave length?
Ian.

[night owl]

Hi handlewanker,
I think that's a valid question. After all, where I work is technically a "machine shop" in the same way McDonald's is a "restaurant". At McDonald's there are no master chefs. Where I work there are no "master machinists". Mostly we have button-pushers, meaning "operators". There are maybe a dozen guys who could pass muster as journeymen machinists, and they work in the "specialty shop" making fixtures and such. And of course we have "programmers" and they are very good at their job, but I don't know as you could call them machinists, exactly. We have very few manual machines, and the guys who can run them are retiring at a rapid clip. It's becoming more and more a button-pushing, throw-it-away world every day. Adapt or die, I guess.
There are just damn few people who take pride in their work anymore, and the ranks are shrinking day by day. Women seem to get it, men don't anymore.
I was just relating my personal experience in the field, such as it is. It may or may not be relevant to yours. Take it for what it's worth, about 2 cents, American money, lol!
Cheers,
night owl

[handlewanker]

Hi, no disrespect meant or intended.......I am a time served fitter and turner so I tend to look down on those that haven't done the course etc and couldn't care less.

There is a real need for people who know how to "push buttons" and I know for a fact I could not push a button to save my life, my type of work was very different to that referred to as button pushing.

You still need some skill to push the buttons on CNC equipment, and I would not look down on someone who only aspired to be a CNC operator......years ago the operators worked on capstan and turret lathes etc, nowadays they work on CNC lathes and mills etc......different machines, same outcome.

The choice of making money or going bust is what drives the industry to make the play according to the game, and the game is competition.....if you ain't in it with other people doing the same, you ain't gonna win it.....old methods die very hard in the work place, and the people who only know the old methods and haven't advanced with the field die just as well.

The beauty of the CNC world is that now anyone who has the enthusiasm can participate in an environment that is not only challenging to the intellect but also available for those who are not necessarily highly skilled and long served dinosaurs.

I am quite amazed at the variety of the work processes and the people who use them.....age is apparently no barrier, and if you don't accept the disciplines of the CNC technique you will forever dwell on the old timers lament....."fings ain't wot they use to be"....LOL.

Good luck to you, give it all you've got and you will enjoy your work.
Ian.

[sumi990]

I'm a female machinist! I program and operate a VF2 Haas. I mostly operate a prototrak and Bridgeport though.
I started as an operator, but decided to go to school, and beg for a chance. I'm on my 2nd year of being a programmer. Best decision of my life!

[handlewanker]

Hi, now that's what I call progressive thinking.....better to be the driver than a passenger all your life.

I had a downturn in my expectations for the CNC world, otherwise I'd be pushing buttons like crazy......being an old dinosaur, button pushing would still be a long learning curve, but you have to start somewhere......I know the green one is for go and the big red one is for stop at all cost....LOL.
Ian.

[gtrdude]

I think that women who work and enjoy working in engineering/machinist trades are probably outliers. Most women couldn't care less about what it takes to fabricate an object, they only care about its utility to them. As far as I am concerned there's no reason women can't be as good as men at anything, it's just that they choose not to because it doesn't interest them (more specifically there's no biological drive to do so). I think men will forever be working on oil rigs, ship yards and changing car tyres simply because women aren't interested in those jobs. After all, why do that kind of work when a man can do it for you??

That said, if you're a female machinist and you love it then that's great. You deserve to pursue whatever trade you like.

[Routerfiend]

Hi all
A number of years ago we had a job on for British aerospace a fairly large and complex piece. The bods from Bae came down and I was introduced to the project engineer ( A lady no less ) I , having my genitalia on the outside, found myself trying to explain things in what I thought was a language that she could understand !! ( Stay with me here ) After about 10 minutes I realised that she actually knew more than I did !! I made my apologies and she explained that she was quite used to it ! Since that day I`ve completely changed my regard for women on the shop floor. The ONLY limitations are physical strength so I lift they grunt ) Just wish there were more ladies in the game . It`s fun and not like going to work more like a hobby that you just happen to get paid for .

[handlewanker]

Whatever.........if it pleases you to make chips, who cares if you wear trousers or skirts.

Personally, I always found that talking to women on technical matters always seemed to be like polishing the varnish and not the table, but then that's me.

If a woman has the desire to work with engineering aspects I have to wonder what they are thinking of.......putting the boot on the other foot, I certainly would not think much of getting excited about knitting patterns or a recipe for state of the art left overs that taste yummy and only cost cents.......give me bacon and eggs straight and hang the cost.

I have to wonder if any woman in engineering lies awake at night thinking of a complex machine component and how it functions.

I would think that females in engineering, as a profession or occupation, are as limited as square eggs compared to the range of outlets men work in across the whole spectrum of metal working.

That women do work in engineering is a fact, but why I do not know or could hazard a guess.
Ian.

[kfriedrich66]

and the award for male chauvinist pig goes to....

[handlewanker]

Who cares.....that's how I see it and ain't afraid to state it, no insults intended......women made the war winnable by their efforts in all the workshops during the 40's.

That doesn't mean they are engineering orientated for all that effort, any more than I like cooking, making beds, washing dishes, prowling around supermarkets for bargains or being chief engineer on the washing machine........since I attained widowerhood.....it's something you get used to doing when you have to.
Ian.

[kfriedrich66]

who cares what an old stick in the mud thinks, it's 2015 out there, the world has passed you by, watch the door doesn't hit you on your butt on the way out.

[Routerfiend]

Aw, don't be too harsh on our Handlewanker. Different generation different values. Read some of his other posts he is quite respectful of our fairer sex. something that always sticks in my mind is something my Nan instilled in me. " those that can should ". ) So if a woman wants to work machinery then why the hell not ! My Missus is always berating me for my tongue in cheek misogyny but it is all in fun. Feminists need to get a sense of humour. Funny how the Missus , who is pro feminism but not arch feminism buys dolls , tills & ironing boards for our grand daughter........ Those who are interested in her response to my remarks on the matter need only ask )

[handlewanker]

LOL......during the 39/45 war my mother was a tool room inspector, having worked in the presses and drills for a while, but she never had the yen to get out in the garage and take the lawn mower apart.....etc.....horses for courses except when the Devil drives.
Ian.

[Routerfiend]

Hi Ian
Mine was Civil defence rather than mechanical but she`d turn her hand to anything that needed doing and I mean anything. She taught me patience above all and she was able to get the barrels on one of my bikes when I`d thrown my spanners down in dispare . Made me feel very small !! Ha ha ha . Lost her just before Christmas but what a woman. I`ve read a lot of your posts on a lot of threads and hats off to you and your old school knowledge . When the inevitable solar flare takes out our computers all over the world it`ll be the likes of you and your generation that will still be able to make things . Anyhoo , time to clock off .

[kfriedrich66]

Hi, no disrespect meant or intended.....LOL, that's what he's hoping, a global catastrophe to make his skills relevant again and go back to the cave with the other neanderthals.

[handlewanker]

LOL.....cave dwelling is not my cup of tea........now this "Neanderthal" is joining the 21st century mob and entering the CNC field with a build of his own.........a 3025 bridge mill on another thread.

No matter what the situation, you still need to be able to tighten the nuts and bolts on occasion and create things with even old school technology.

If you've had the luck to be a part of the engineering brigade from the beginning of your career, the journey from raw material to final machine is relatively easy....even if you're a female who finds life in the kitchen is not as exciting as hacking into a piece of metal with a self created CNC device and making chips....greasy hands and short finger nails are part of that tradition.

I play with a computer, but I don't know how it's made inside.....couldn't care less.... same as a person with a CNC machine......you don't need to know how it was put together to work with one....male or female.

If anyone ever doubts the ability of a woman to create things with their hands in metal using machinery, check out Cherry Hinds, a woman model engineer who creates engineering models that win prizes every time there is an exhibition.(UK based).
Ian.

[Routerfiend]

There will always be a need for old technology just because it`s old tech doesn`t negate it . How many time have you had a job that could be done quicker on a mill than the set up time required for cnc ? For me it`s a daily occurrence especially on one off jobs. Sadly that avenue is now closed to me/us as the "ELF & SAFTEY" inspector took one look at our old Bridgeport mill and $hit herself !! Notice I said HERSELF ! Yep a woman !
As I said in a previous post " those that can should " When it comes to the health & safety executive ( In the U.K. anyway ) I`ve come up with a phrase that describes them perfectly "Those that can`t telling people that can that they mustn`t " . I`d used that mill for 25 years and the only accident I ever had with it was when I bumped my head on it ! This is what happens when these youngsters come out of College or University with a piece of paper that states " I AM NOT A MORON" ! Where as the truth of the matter is that because they have zero experience of machinery or the shop environment everything is scary to them! To me THEY are the most dangerous person in the shop because they don`t know anything ! Won`t be too much longer before I`m left with only a broom and a wooden spoon to use ! And only then if they are properly guarded and the risk assessment is in place !! Sorry If I`ve wandered slightly off topic. I must go and lie down now as I`m starting to foam at the mouth !! :O)

[hanermo]

Women make excellent machinists and engineers.
My third client visit in Madrid, the shop forman was a pretty 24 year old woman, who could run the plasma, lathe, mill and strip and fix any of the 3 haas machines better than some techs.

We had an excellent relationship, and helped each other out.
She had been in the haas magazine, 3rd generation, and was the shop foreman because she was the best at it.
About 10 people working iirc.

About half of all engineers in Finland are women.
All machinists in general in Finland (most of scandinavia afaik) and Spain are engineers.