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IndustryArena Forum > CAM Software > SprutCAM > I want to cut slightly further than the model
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    49

    I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Using a milling machine. I have some simple 2D parts that I cut out some holes using waterline roughing, I then use those holes as hold down points to continue cutting out the pieces.

    My problem comes in the last .1 of a mm leaving me with a burr to remove due to the cutter being slightly rounded or shortened etc.

    Using 2D contouring it is easy for me to add .25mm and cut slightly beyond the part creating a nice finish however this option is not available in waterline.

    There are lots of solutions like reducing the cutter length by 0.25mm, making the parts .25mm thicker and moving the Z offset however these seem like a bodge.

    Adding stock to the underside of the work would be a nice solution however clever SprutCAM stops cutting at 0mm! Changing the bottom level only seems to provide reducing the cutting depth, axial stock does not work with negative numbers

    I am sure this is something others are familiar with and I wondered what the neatest most logical solution was that people had found/used.

    many thanks,

    Jon
    Sliding down the razor blade of life.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    41

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Yeah the waterline feature can be quirky because it is slicing the model into 2D profiles and if their is nothing there it gets confused. Try using the tool contact point setting in the tool dialog box. Its default is set to end so just change the value and you'll see the white dot move. Its the same as if you were programing a chamfer mill. Tormach has a few videos on it. Hope that helps. Post some pictures when you get it figured out.
    Tim


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    980
    You could always draw your part a little deeper - Sprutcam won't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonS View Post
    Using a milling machine. I have some simple 2D parts that I cut out some holes using waterline roughing, I then use those holes as hold down points to continue cutting out the pieces.

    My problem comes in the last .1 of a mm leaving me with a burr to remove due to the cutter being slightly rounded or shortened etc.

    Using 2D contouring it is easy for me to add .25mm and cut slightly beyond the part creating a nice finish however this option is not available in waterline.

    There are lots of solutions like reducing the cutter length by 0.25mm, making the parts .25mm thicker and moving the Z offset however these seem like a bodge.

    Adding stock to the underside of the work would be a nice solution however clever SprutCAM stops cutting at 0mm! Changing the bottom level only seems to provide reducing the cutting depth, axial stock does not work with negative numbers

    I am sure this is something others are familiar with and I wondered what the neatest most logical solution was that people had found/used.

    many thanks,

    Jon

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    49

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    CadRhino that is in my list of bodges... but when it is someone else's part in an assembly of parts.... surely there should be an easy control at the CAM stage so that the first cut is not too deep and the last cut goes satisfactorily past the piece being cut... the person doing the CAM should not have to edit models....
    Sliding down the razor blade of life.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    49

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Quote Originally Posted by tmallard450 View Post
    Yeah the waterline feature can be quirky because it is slicing the model into 2D profiles and if their is nothing there it gets confused. Try using the tool contact point setting in the tool dialog box. Its default is set to end so just change the value and you'll see the white dot move. Its the same as if you were programing a chamfer mill. Tormach has a few videos on it. Hope that helps. Post some pictures when you get it figured out.
    Tim


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I think using the double radial mill option is an answer with 0 big radius and a little one in the corner, this makes the first cut the right depth and the last cut has to go beyond.. thanks.
    Sliding down the razor blade of life.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2151

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    I change bottom level when I want to control total depth of cuts.
    Under waterline operation , parameters dialog box top and or bottom level shown highlighted.

    Attachment 274138

    Sprut will ignore defined stock and generate tool paths to that level. even if its right into mill vise or table
    hope this helps

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    49

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    I change bottom level when I want to control total depth of cuts.
    Under waterline operation , parameters dialog box top and or bottom level shown highlighted.

    Attachment 274138

    Sprut will ignore defined stock and generate tool paths to that level. even if its right into mill vise or table
    hope this helps
    2d contouring seems to work as you describe, when I include the jig plate underneath the parts the 2 contouring wants to cut down through the jig plate and I have to restrict the bottom level.

    When I include a negative number in the same setup for waterlining SprutCAM refuses to calculate any toolpath for waterline.

    This is not a serious issue for me just a little frustration..

    Jon
    Sliding down the razor blade of life.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    138

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Quote Originally Posted by JonS View Post
    2d contouring seems to work as you describe, when I include the jig plate underneath the parts the 2 contouring wants to cut down through the jig plate and I have to restrict the bottom level.

    When I include a negative number in the same setup for waterlining SprutCAM refuses to calculate any toolpath for waterline.

    This is not a serious issue for me just a little frustration..

    Jon
    bingo! you said when I include the jig plate, so the question is this: Is the Jig a fixture (under SC)? If you put your Jig or anything as a fixture, and under that operation if the fixture is being used, from previous operation or whatever.

    You will never be able to cut deeper then the fixture, that is the point of the fixture to avoid cuts into it.

    Simple solution to this, is for that operation clear the fixture setting, and keep it for other operations, now your Z depth values will work, I spent so much time trying to figure it out, as to why it would not take my values then remembered I put a fixture, and other time I did not


    I use "fixture" as a way to also control automatic CAM cuts, you can do it for specific things for whatever reason if you do not want the tool to go past a point, or be in a location this is a good way to force the CAM to avoid that area.

    I know this sucks, but thats how it was designed, many times we want to cut into the jig/fixture say .01" or so to make sure we get a good and clean part, but with the CAM, if you set the values like that it will not work.

    Also try to space your part from the jig if you need that .01" or however deep, I know this is not best solution, as it would affect all your operations, though you can have duplicate fixture and have specific operations use different ones, say shifted in Z or whatever reason.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    49

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Quote Originally Posted by drutort View Post
    bingo! you said when I include the jig plate, so the question is this: Is the Jig a fixture (under SC)? If you put your Jig or anything as a fixture, and under that operation if the fixture is being used, from previous operation or whatever.

    You will never be able to cut deeper then the fixture, that is the point of the fixture to avoid cuts into it.

    Simple solution to this, is for that operation clear the fixture setting, and keep it for other operations, now your Z depth values will work, I spent so much time trying to figure it out, as to why it would not take my values then remembered I put a fixture, and other time I did not


    I use "fixture" as a way to also control automatic CAM cuts, you can do it for specific things for whatever reason if you do not want the tool to go past a point, or be in a location this is a good way to force the CAM to avoid that area.

    I know this sucks, but thats how it was designed, many times we want to cut into the jig/fixture say .01" or so to make sure we get a good and clean part, but with the CAM, if you set the values like that it will not work.

    Also try to space your part from the jig if you need that .01" or however deep, I know this is not best solution, as it would affect all your operations, though you can have duplicate fixture and have specific operations use different ones, say shifted in Z or whatever reason.
    OK that has got me thinking thanks. I have had a quick play with "fixture" in SC but my fixture plate in this has not been configured as a fixture in SC.

    Jon
    Sliding down the razor blade of life.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    2151

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Quote Originally Posted by JonS View Post
    OK that has got me thinking thanks. I have had a quick play with "fixture" in SC but my fixture plate in this has not been configured as a fixture in SC.

    Jon
    I did not think it could be a fixture problem!!! If you can place and use fixtures in your cam models your experience is well above beginner and setting the most basic values in water line operations. As I mentioned above if you change bottom level value it will go to that depth! Not clear why you cant. I would need picture of setup and ucs defined and where. If ucs is set to bottom of part then the value would be different then top of part! Many factors, I would watch all the tormach videos as many times as it takes to learn setup and basic operations. Then build on those skills a little at a time. This is complex powerful software that can run a large verity of machines, kludges and bodges as you mention above are not required and its more a function of understanding cam software. As drutort mentions there are a number of ways to do the same thing or control what your doing or what the software is doing.
    md

  11. #11
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    Oct 2007
    Posts
    49

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    I did not think it could be a fixture problem!!! If you can place and use fixtures in your cam models your experience is well above beginner and setting the most basic values in water line operations. As I mentioned above if you change bottom level value it will go to that depth! Not clear why you cant. I would need picture of setup and ucs defined and where. If ucs is set to bottom of part then the value would be different then top of part! Many factors, I would watch all the tormach videos as many times as it takes to learn setup and basic operations. Then build on those skills a little at a time. This is complex powerful software that can run a large verity of machines, kludges and bodges as you mention above are not required and its more a function of understanding cam software. As drutort mentions there are a number of ways to do the same thing or control what your doing or what the software is doing.
    md
    thanks, having my "fixture plate" not as a "fixture" was what was stopping waterline working as it should and being able to cut below the lowest point in the parts, I had left it in place as initially i was having to align the fixture plate to X0,Y0 in SC, but now I am a bit more confident in not having that there.. SO much to learn, it can be frustrating when you are trying something that should be easy..
    Sliding down the razor blade of life.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    2151

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Quote Originally Posted by JonS View Post
    thanks, having my "fixture plate" not as a "fixture" was what was stopping waterline working as it should and being able to cut below the lowest point in the parts, I had left it in place as initially i was having to align the fixture plate to X0,Y0 in SC, but now I am a bit more confident in not having that there.. SO much to learn, it can be frustrating when you are trying something that should be easy..
    I would have to agree!
    If you need to learn and use this as fast as possible would be a major pain. Fast results for a job or a client would be very frustrating. I call it dog fooding! Learning as much as I can. Dedicating time and effort to master skills and tools that are not clearly defined, understanding in the future this will help make the complex achievable. One of the main reasons for choosing the most powerful cam tools I could afford. Not because it was easy to get results but because I would not find the limits of the tool in a few weeks. I can only encourage you to spend time learning your cam software. Imho this has paid off big time and is now straight forward effort to cam up and mill complex parts.
    Also in this case the software runs other machines like a sbl15 lathe and the effort I put into learning and setting up mill operations will also speed my learning curve on lathe operations. Ah and I explore advanced concepts all the time like parametric designs where I can change the size of a constricted object like a o-ring and the entire model and all its parts change. While sprut cant update all the cam operations on all the new parts automatically I have found ways or methods to make this a very fast process and you end up with a design in hand in hours. That was a few months ago, my latest work is in nesting of parts or designs this is another nice concept and skill to have
    Always learning new stuff "Knowledge is compounding"
    Hang in there, a year ago I struggled all the time now I get results with little effort.
    md

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    49

    Re: I want to cut slightly further than the model

    Yep I took a long time in selecting SC it is vastly capable I have no doubt about that, but with open ended capability comes open ended learning.. it is nice to get some help along the way Thanks again, I am sure I will have more questions
    Sliding down the razor blade of life.

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