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IndustryArena Forum > CAM Software > Surfcam > Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO
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  1. #21
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    Sep 2015
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    1
    I just spent 3 hours at a Surfcam meeting that actually had almost nothing to do with Surfcam.
    So this is my take on the matter.
    Vero is not actually buying software to keep developing it, but rather it is buying a subscriber base of customers when it purchases a software platform (like Surfcam).
    It is this base of customers (users) that generates income.
    The actual software is something you have to put money into. Lots of money if you have to support a team of dedicated developers for each unique system.
    If you can move even half of those users to a platform you already have, you save a bundle while making a bundle. Yes, they will lose some of the users, but I would think the retention is better than half.
    Evo is the name of a software interface that they already have developed and they want that interface to cover many different cad/cam disciplines. Much more economical to have one platform serving all those users.
    So, surfcam is dead, and they want to woo everyone to another package. The faster the better. They are just not going to come straight out and say it.
    Soooooo, all you who always wanted to migrate to a different cam system, now is the time. Because you are basically migrating to an entirely new product anyway. Why not let it be the one of YOUR choosing, rather than Veros?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    19

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    I actually had them come in and demo the product today. It looks interesting. As far as usability it looks pretty easy to use. I used the old version of Surfcam for 8 years and it left a lot to be desired. Right now I'm using HSMWorks which is ok, but not great. I'm willing to give it a try. I'm sure there will be lots of questions if I get this, but I'm willing to take the chance.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    125

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    They are sending demo versions or we need to ask for them?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    142

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    I asked my reseller for a demo. They told me that it won't function at all without a license.

    In other words you can't operate EVO without purchasing it or using someone else's license.

    We currently have Surfcam and can't get a demo copy.

    After finding that out we're looking to upgrade to anything not under the Vero name

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    637

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Have any of you Surfcam users tried Fusion 360 from Autodesk. I picked up a copy for about $25 a month ago and it looks interesting but I'm too busy to try it for production. It's cloud based so it doesn't require a huge investment up front, just an annual fee. First year is basically free and $300 a year after that for the 3D CAD and CAM version. I'll keep using Surfcam 6 until a get a chance to dig into Fusion 360 a little deeper. Our dealer wanted over $1600 to upgrade to Surfcam's latest so we've decided to drop Surfcam from our long term planning. Sad because we been users for close to 20 years now. What a waste. They had something good but squandered it. At least that's how it looks to me.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    142

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    I usually try not to wear my tinfoil hat but I just can't trust something cloud based.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    125

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Quote Originally Posted by moldcore View Post
    Have any of you Surfcam users tried Fusion 360 from Autodesk. I picked up a copy for about $25 a month ago and it looks interesting but I'm too busy to try it for production. It's cloud based so it doesn't require a huge investment up front, just an annual fee. First year is basically free and $300 a year after that for the 3D CAD and CAM version. I'll keep using Surfcam 6 until a get a chance to dig into Fusion 360 a little deeper. Our dealer wanted over $1600 to upgrade to Surfcam's latest so we've decided to drop Surfcam from our long term planning. Sad because we been users for close to 20 years now. What a waste. They had something good but squandered it. At least that's how it looks to me.
    It seems that is the new trend in the CAD / CAM market. Autodesk giant will force to pay monthly for a license. Who you do not stop the update can, forcing to pay a full new license. The 3DS will the same way, I received an email from my Solidworks reseller to inform that from January 2016 will have to pay monthly or annually to keep my license active, otherwise when you want to upgrade have to buy a new one.
    With regard to Surfcam EVO I do not know how it will be but if I remember correctly a webinar I attended, there was talk that existing customers would have to make a 2-day training to gain access to the release. With regard to the license of annual value was only told it would be 20% cheaper than competitors ...
    Let's wait and see !!!

  8. #28
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    Feb 2012
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    125

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Quote Originally Posted by Billetgrip View Post
    I asked my reseller for a demo. They told me that it won't function at all without a license.

    In other words you can't operate EVO without purchasing it or using someone else's license.

    We currently have Surfcam and can't get a demo copy.

    After finding that out we're looking to upgrade to anything not under the Vero name
    I think this is not the case !!! I'm beta tester Surfcam. this time left the Surfcam Traditional 2016 version for resellers. I think in 2016 anso the start will be made available to customers for testing.
    For it will be sent a "new" temporary license that allows you to test the new version. So I think it will be possible to test the software, just have the dealer / maker will.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    142
    Quote Originally Posted by forjaco View Post
    With regard to Surfcam EVO I do not know how it will be but if I remember correctly a webinar I attended, there was talk that existing customers would have to make a 2-day training to gain access to the release. With regard to the license of annual value was only told it would be 20% cheaper than competitors ...
    Let's wait and see !!!
    That was left up to the resellers. Ours said we could pay for 3 days training and a post and they would give us an upgraded license from old Surfcam to EVO. That offer ends at the end of this month.

  10. #30
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    Feb 2012
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    125

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Quote Originally Posted by Billetgrip View Post
    That was left up to the resellers. Ours said we could pay for 3 days training and a post and they would give us an upgraded license from old Surfcam to EVO. That offer ends at the end of this month.
    That was not the information I got. But has also been a while, so do not doubt that the conditions have changed, what has previously happened to Surfware.
    What I was told was that the Traditional Surfcam version would never fade or would fail to have technical support.
    Would always be two versions: Traditional and Surfcam Surfcam EVO. Customers wanted the EVO version would have to pay for two days of training and would be given free of charge to a corresponding EVO version Surfcam Traditional version they had.
    Then the cost of maintaining annuity would be +/- 20% below the market price in CAM competitors.
    But it has never said what would be the value.

  11. #31
    zzhyzyg Guest

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

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  12. #32
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    Jan 2012
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    97

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    ["Our dealer wanted over $1600 to upgrade to Surfcam's latest so we've decided to drop Surfcam from our long term planning"]

    WOW.... That seems a little harsh... It sucks to be a slave to a software product no doubt, but to start over doesn't seem like much better option. My experience is that you will probably just be moving onto a new master (pun intended). A new master that's most likely not going to be a whole lot better than the old master. It seems like you'll ultimately spend a whole lot more than $1,600 dollars and that won't include retraining and remaking all of the same mistakes again, not to mention all of the loss of productivity. I've never disliked a software company so much that I'd be willing to do that to myself just so as to teach them a lesson......

    Like everyone else, I am very disappointed in the way that Surfcam's fortunes have gone, but I do have a little bit of confidence in the new direction that they are taking and I'm going to go a long for the ride, at least for now. Last year I spent a considerable amount of time investigating HyperMill. I did several 5 axis programs using it, and several things stood out... It is great software for doing complex parts, especially 5-axis parts but it's usefulness leaves a lot to be desired if you do a lot of simple parts, and, you might as well forget about doing any kind of lathe parts with HyperMill, that's not even remotely possible. The care and feeding of 2 complex and expensive systems is just not feasible at this point so HyperMill is out...

    All of that being said, I went the EVO route. I took the 2 day training and I installed it last week. As of right now I'm just barely starting to figure this software out, it has very little (if anything at all) in common with traditional Surfcam. EdgeCAM is probably a better forum for help. However, properly set up, configured (a big task) and tooled it is very good, especially for simple, semi complicated or families of parts. I can see doing 10 minute programs that will run for an hour or longer. Right now $1,008 and a 2 day class seem like a bargain...

    I'm willing to share any knowledge that I gain with anyone who's willing to do the same...

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    142

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Quote Originally Posted by machinster View Post
    but to start over doesn't seem like much better option.

    All of that being said, I went the EVO route.
    You just started over.


    I would love to go with EVO but WILL NOT purchase it without trying it first. Did you get to try it before making a purchase? Without your reseller holding your hand?

    I used to toot the Surfcam horn til my face was blue but Vero/ Hexagon has just killed it for me.

  14. #34
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    Feb 2012
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    125

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Quote Originally Posted by Billetgrip View Post
    You just started over.


    I would love to go with EVO but WILL NOT purchase it without trying it first. Did you get to try it before making a purchase? Without your reseller holding your hand?

    I used to toot the Surfcam horn til my face was blue but Vero/ Hexagon has just killed it for me.
    I'm exactly the same opinion. Alias when I attended the webinar and was proposed two days of training + € 1000 to stay with the EVO, that's what I said: first wanted to test a trial version to see if the software meets my work.

  15. #35
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    Jan 2012
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    97

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    ["You just started over. "]

    Well, I guess that I 'kind' of did start over, but not really.

    I still have SurfCam under maintenance. Now I also have Evo at the same level as my current version of SurfCam for $1000 (not €1000) which means that, if I use nothing else in EVO, I now have an actual 2-4 axis lathe programming software, something that I didn't have before.

    All up tally of the EVO products that I have installed is $22,000. I don't know about you but that's a pretty good deal for $1,000. Even if you look at only as a 4 axis lathe software with a really good configurable mill/turn post generator and simulator, if that's all I ever use it for, that's still a really good deal. Where else could I get 4 axis lathe software with full simulation for $1,000 and a 2 day training class?

    A new version of an equivalent Mcam XX or GibbsCam product is like $20,000+ right..? And, you still have the same problem... What if you hate it, then where do you turn...

    Anyway that's just my 2c worth, I've got totally new software for $1,000. So far, I've managed to create a couple of test programs with EVO but I'm still a long way from actually using it in day to day production. Compared to SurfCam, EVO looks night and day better and more modern, but as always, one has features that I wish I could use in the other, the good thing is that I didn't have to give anything up and I can switch back and forth with just a mouse click.

    Personally for me, I don't see the downside to this deal....

  16. #36
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    May 2013
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    142

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    You see nothing wrong with paying $1000 + 2 days training on software that you may or may not like?

  17. #37
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    Feb 2012
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    125

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    If we look through this point, the acquisition cost equivalent to 5% of the product price. It's a good deal. But then how much it will cost to keep the two software when it comes to updates?
    There are two maintenance because I do not believe that the EVO can now do whatever the Traditional Surfcam does.

  18. #38
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    Jan 2012
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    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Quote Originally Posted by Billetgrip View Post
    You see nothing wrong with paying $1000 + 2 days training on software that you may or may not like?
    In a word NO...

    Here's the way that I see it...

    Vero/Hexagon is a huge multi-national corporation, AND, like GM or Ford, they aren't going to put out a product that doesn't work or do whatever its supposed to do. Are there going to be a few quirks or features that I hate? Oh sure there are, but overall, I'm sure that its a good product. I looked at the demo very carefully and asked a lot of questions. There has never been a question in my mind that this software would do whatever I needed to do and I seriously needed a multi-axis lathe programming system. Can you give me a list of all of the 2-4 axis lathe programming systems that are available for $1,000 or less....? No, because they are all going to be in the $5,000-$10,000 price and I think that's probably on the low end of the range.

    Do you have a 2-4 axis lathe programming system, (ok, maybe you don't need one), what if I told you that I could get you one for $1,000 dollars with configurable posts and machine simulation, including 2 days of training, would you go for it..? I don't know about you but for me it was the theoretical 'no brainer'....

    If we look through this point, the acquisition cost equivalent to 5% of the product price. It's a good deal. But then how much it will cost to keep the two software when it comes to updates?
    There are two maintenance because I do not believe that the EVO can now do whatever the Traditional Surfcam does.
    Mario... Good point. Yes, that IS the downside, the maintenance. I did think about that, but I have a year to consider it and that is the real key... Will it be worth it to maintain both versions, right now I'm not sure... I guess I'll have to evaluate that when it comes up in a year....

  19. #39
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    May 2013
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    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Quote Originally Posted by machinster View Post

    Vero/Hexagon is a huge multi-national corporation, AND, like GM or Ford, they aren't going to put out a product that doesn't work or do whatever its supposed to do.
    You're VERY trusting.

  20. #40
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    Feb 2012
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    125

    Re: Vero Software Announces New Product, SurfCam EVO

    Does anyone using Surfcam EVO?
    They change website with new product.

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