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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Okuma > need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "
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  1. #1
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    need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Hy guys, about lb3000ex2 lathes

    1) i need to use the S axis with low hidraulic pressure, below 0.5 mpa. Problem is that machine does not start, because it thinks that the chuck is unclamp. In reality, the chuck is clamped, but the machine does not receive confimation below 0.5 mpa.

    2) i need to use C+M axis without hidraulic pressure.

    of course, i can do both things using normal pressure, but it would take longer ...



    meow-meow the world kindly !

  2. #2
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Add extra IO to sensor with a manual switch ?
    Then use it to cheat the machine.

    Think of safety aspects.
    I am not at all sure you really want to do this ...
    If the part lets go, death and dismemberment are a real possibility.

    Of course, we have no idea of your experience, but if you need to ask, this is NOT somthing that is safe imho.

  3. #3
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    Add extra IO to sensor with a manual switch ?
    Then use it to cheat the machine.
    i didn't understand what you mean ... please, can you be more explanatory ?

    ) yup, safety comes 1st

  4. #4
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Can you adjust the chuck confirm sensor at the back of the chuck cylinder? If your machine is CE spec then it is very difficult to get around this error

  5. #5
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Did you try M184 code?

  6. #6
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Like they say, i'm not sure why you want to do this and it does require you to be running in a safe manner. The prox switches still need to be met with only one on at a time. You can adjust the pressure sensor switch to a lower value by removing the plastic cover in the center and then adjusting it with a screwdriver. It should be set to about 100 psi from the factory as a minimum pressure. They do this because the chuck itself starts to drastically lose gripping force below that value. Many factors start to come into play at that point such as grease being used, cleanliness of the chuck slides, RPM of chuck, workpiece weight, etc.. Be sure to be safe. Remember "without hydraulic pressure" means without gripping force and that is why they set a minimum. If you are distorting your part it is better to surround your part more fully with pie jaws rather than lower your pressure to reduce the distortion. You will also need to reduce your cutting forces as your gripping force reduces. If you tap on the workpiece with a soft hammer, you will see how easy it becomes to move the part once you reduce your pressure, so once again be careful, you are choosing to do what is not recommended.

    Best regards,

  7. #7
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    hy all, thx 4 answers

    1) low hidraulic pressure

    i did not mess up with the sensors, because i don't know how ..

    M185/M184 does nothing : when compiler reaches this line, machine stops without error - so, it does something,but it does not work

    I used a reamer ( static part + rotating tool ) to calibrate a hole, but chuck pressure, even at 0.5mpa, is too big. Control caliber does not fit when part is on the machine, but it fits when part is taken out
    Jaws stamp is good ...
    Well, sometimes is tricky to use drills and after that reamers, when holes are long and walls are thin, because reamer gets strangled by hidraulic.
    Same tools worked nice on a classical lathe ...
    If i just could set the hidraulic pressure right.
    Anyway, i use a knife instead, and it worked.
    * knives : speed
    * reamers : cilindricity
    In this case i used a knife because hole was not so long; reamers are more suitable for long holes than knives.
    When holes are long, and jaws are clamping them, things get ... meow-meow


    2) no pressure at all


    I needed to mill the jaws, so after that to clamp and turn them ... so, i send them to a mill, or i improvise some kind of a clamp

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Well, beside those sensors, is there a way to avoid hidraulic pressure confirmation ?


    kindly !

  8. #8
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    On a CE machine the pressue switch needs to be confirmed for the machine to run. You could put the machine in "adjust mode" and over ride the PLC input for the pressue switch, but this is not recommended as a solution

  9. #9
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Quote Originally Posted by budgieW View Post
    On a CE machine the pressue switch needs to be confirmed for the machine to run. You could put the machine in "adjust mode" and over ride the PLC input for the pressue switch, but this is not recommended as a solution
    sounds nice ... do you think i can do that ? ... do you have a manual 4 that ? i am not a PLCguy

  10. #10
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    Like they say, i'm not sure why you want to do this and it does require you to be running in a safe manner. The prox switches still need to be met with only one on at a time. You can adjust the pressure sensor switch to a lower value by removing the plastic cover in the center and then adjusting it with a screwdriver. It should be set to about 100 psi from the factory as a minimum pressure. They do this because the chuck itself starts to drastically lose gripping force below that value. Many factors start to come into play at that point such as grease being used, cleanliness of the chuck slides, RPM of chuck, workpiece weight, etc.. Be sure to be safe. Remember "without hydraulic pressure" means without gripping force and that is why they set a minimum. If you are distorting your part it is better to surround your part more fully with pie jaws rather than lower your pressure to reduce the distortion. You will also need to reduce your cutting forces as your gripping force reduces. If you tap on the workpiece with a soft hammer, you will see how easy it becomes to move the part once you reduce your pressure, so once again be careful, you are choosing to do what is not recommended.

    Best regards,


    Is there a proper technique/method to setting the proximity sensors? One of the sensors on our chuck has moved and needs to be set properly. I attempted to reset it, but it's still alarming out. Thanks in advance!

  11. #11
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    hi nicu, there should be 2 proximity senzors; screwdriver / allen & next table / kindly

    Code:
        chuck                 |         senzor
        set for od clamping   |   left   right    (*1)
    
    
        open                  :     o             (*2)
        closed on part        :     o      o
        closed without part   :            o      (*3)
    
    
    (
      *1 : looking from the back of the machine
      *2 : " o " means " ligths on "
      *3 : normally, in this case, you should receive an error
    )
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  12. #12
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Simply put, you can only have one ON at a time. The switches reverse meaning when changing from OD to ID chucking.
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  13. #13
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    Simply put, you can only have one ON at a time
    hy mr wizard when chucking, both lights are on

    empty ( or chuck grasp ilk cancel ) & empty miss clamped : only one / kindly


    Quote Originally Posted by budgieW View Post
    On a CE machine the pressue switch needs to be confirmed for the machine to run. You could put the machine in "adjust mode" and over ride the PLC input for the pressue switch, but this is not recommended as a solution ...
    because it may mess up the bearings inside the hydra cilinder
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  14. #14
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Have you thought about using a fixture?? Or if the part is small enough you could us a collet fiture ore a collet chuck

  15. #15
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Oh I remember possible trick style. Changing to air chuck will ignore switches in favor of timer for clamp unclamp. Default 5 seconds. Of course be careful as before.
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  16. #16
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    Oh I remember possible trick style. Changing to air chuck will ignore switches in favor of timer for clamp unclamp. Default 5 seconds. Of course be careful as before.
    This will also get the desired extremely light clamping you desire as well.

  17. #17
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    Changing to air chuck will ignore switches in favor of timer for clamp unclamp
    hy mr wizard, so far i did not seen an air chuck at work; i was believing that there is also a pressure confirmation ... time delay is ok, but a low air pressure ( accidentaly ) may ruin the setup; or maybe there are some pressure senzors, at least before the air gets inside the machine ... i would be more comfortable knowing that also the pressure inside the chuck is monitorized
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  18. #18
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    I don’t believe that the air pressure is monitored by pressure switch. Thus it should work in your situation.

    Please try doubtingkitty..,

    Best regards,
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  19. #19
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    Re: need to avoid " chuck clamp confirmation "

    I don’t believe that the air pressure is monitored by pressure switch.
    hello, i was looking through special functions, when i found something designed for monitoring air : i don't know if it checks pressure value/range, or only pressure presence, but maybe there is an adjuting valve ? also, i found a parameter for the alarm type; pls check attached

    it may be a good idea to monitor air pressure for an air chuck, so to avoid " system fly by "

    recently we used diy air for a setup, so to blow the chips away / kindly
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 01.png   01.png  
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

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