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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    111

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Scharged : Glad the tool setup and referencing worked. That is the way they explained it at tormach.

    My unit is usually within .002~ on initial setup. I think my home switches are pretty tight. I just reference tool one and everything stay pretty tight.

    I have use the 3/4" bar trick to line up my gang tooling to get it centered. I purchased a concentric dial indicator to get it closer. It really helped when I added another ID turning holder to the turret before I bored it to 3/4".

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    [QUOTE=LeeWay;1769078]
    I have measured parts that were made a week apart and they were almost identical. I only tested with calipers, but I will mike the ones I make tomorrow with the same kind I made today and let you know the results.
    My lathe sits right in front of the shop AC so it is always about the same temperature. I am sure that may play a role in some shops.

    I just checked the switches again, ref, zero re-ref, +.010 out, same same -.010, -.005. So as long as I can enter the diam of one tool then I guess I'm ok. Yea maybe I have older version switches or something. Temps are pretty stable. So there is no way I could ref one day and have it come out the same as the day before.

    Here is my setup. notice the ER16 collet holders buried in the blocks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20151001_043919.jpg   20151001_043940.jpg  

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Today's difference on the measured diameter is .3552" on the first from yesterday and .3556 on the second today. That is a diameter reading with a mic. So bust that difference in half. Not much difference at all.
    Lee

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    That's good, but a lot of my parts require +-.0005 so I need to dial it in.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    My point was that the switches are acting much differently than what was reported earlier. A difference of .0002" from day to day is way different than .015" that was mentioned. Mine is out of the box. I have not messed with the switches at all. I would conclude that you may have different switches or that they may be loose.
    Lee

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    What serial number do you have?
    Mine is 116.
    Lee

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    111

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Mine is 115

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    I would really check the machine out. Hard to think there is that much difference from literally one machine to the next.
    Lee

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    SN 1004, 06-2014

    Quick check and switches and housing are tight.
    I'll email tech support and see what they say.

    Thanks for the info

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    253

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Mine 046. I've had up to .010 differences of the X axis homing. I squirt a little gun lube on the homing switches from time to time, but it doesn;t really seem to help. Z doesn't really matter so much. So I actually re-zero my tools every time I turn the machine on, but I'm QCTP. It still puzzles me why I have differences on my gang tooling zero from the QCTP every time I restart the tool. FWIW, iron expands at 6 millionths per degree F per inch - it can add up

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    179

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    I see that a few of you have discussed the topic of tool and work offsets in this thread. Can someone explain to me exactly what the values in the offset table represent? I can't seem to make sense of how they are calculated. I have the turret, and I followed the process in sections 4.6 and 4.7 of the manual. To set the work offset, I held a parallel bar across the face of an empty tool pocket in the turret, and touched that to a bar of known diameter. I then set the equivalent diameter (accounting for the parallel bar in between) in the work offset. Then I proceeded to set the tool offsets.

    My part diameters come out right, but the value of the of the X offsets in the offset table do not represent the true tool stickout and I really have no idea what they represent. Also, should I stick with the default "Nose R" value of 0.0158 for all tools, or should I change that for certain tools?

    Thanks in advance.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    111

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    The tool offsets are relative to the position of the tool in reference to a coordinate on the x and z axis.

    Let say you do a test cut and measure the piece at .750" dia and 0.00 z. The machine knows from the referencing where it is in relation to the home switches. The tool offset is a reference to that position. The turret offsets are always positive and the qctp offsets are always negative, based on the zero axis of the machine. That zero is calculated by you when you do the test cut and determine the work offset and enter it into the dro.

    I am not sure on the nose radius. I have not changed mine. I do not remember asking tormach about the nose radius. Something I will have to add to my questions list when I call again.

    They have some of the best support I have come across. I have a grizzly G0709 lathe and they are good at answering question.

    Daniel Rogge at Tormach has a couple good videos on work and tool offsets for the lathe / mill. He is the one that got all of it square in my head.

    Hope this helps.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    253

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by saabaero View Post
    Despite that the tool that Tormach supplied for alignment of the turret forced me to use it face up, tools will generally be mounted with the insert facing down. What is also strange and has me confused is that the coolant nozzles are on the top side of the tool holder and not the bottom making it impossible to have it spray on the face of the insert. Nevertheless, the conversational programs do not let you reverse the spindle rotation.

    I have the Aloris style quick change tool holder in combination with my turret. I had the same CXA toolholders for my manual lathe so I went that route to start out. Eventually I will set up gang tooling as another option. I hope to just change insert styles (and keep the same toolholder mounted to the turret) to switch between ferrous and non-ferrous in most cases.
    I think it's actually right to have coolant sprayed from the bottom of the insert, because the edge of the insert is dug into the stock and the chip acts as an umbrella for coolant pointed at the top. If coolant is shot from the bottom it has a chance to get drawn between the chip and the cutting edge. I have QCTP and try to point the coolant as sideways as possible to get under the chip. Real world, tho, the stock and insert get plenty of cooling either way, not sure if it makes that much difference.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    253

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by sanddrag View Post
    I see that a few of you have discussed the topic of tool and work offsets in this thread. Can someone explain to me exactly what the values in the offset table represent? I can't seem to make sense of how they are calculated. I have the turret, and I followed the process in sections 4.6 and 4.7 of the manual. To set the work offset, I held a parallel bar across the face of an empty tool pocket in the turret, and touched that to a bar of known diameter. I then set the equivalent diameter (accounting for the parallel bar in between) in the work offset. Then I proceeded to set the tool offsets.

    My part diameters come out right, but the value of the of the X offsets in the offset table do not represent the true tool stickout and I really have no idea what they represent. Also, should I stick with the default "Nose R" value of 0.0158 for all tools, or should I change that for certain tools?

    Thanks in advance.
    It took me months to wrap my head around also. What helps is to think of it in terms of the mill. On the mill you also have a tool table also but just one dimension that really counts, that the Z offset. You have to know how long the tool is, so the controller can subtract the right amount from what you described as Z0. on tool 0. On the lathe you have X to also worry about, you also have no tool '0'; each tool has an X entry from X0, which is well, X0, the same for all tools. . However, *i believe* that X0, or the particular's tool X offset in the tool table is calculated as so many pulses from the X home position. So say you zero up some tools, turn the machine off, then on, and re-home - then zero up a second set of tools. The first set will have zero relative to each, the second set as well, but the first set and second set will look at X0 in a different way mainly because the machine never quite re-homes at the exact same place due to mechanical variation in the micro switches ( from one homing to the next, can be off by as much as .010 or more ).
    I typically re-zero my tools for every job, but I have QCTP and tend to change things around alot - on a turret you leave your tools in there and they are fixed. I just stick a piece of turned stock in the chuck, find the mid point in the runout with a dial and mark it with a sharpie. I use the paper method and brings the tools up against this stock, but the first part is usually within a thou.

    The radius is used for cutter compensation so the actual cutting point can be determined. Normally the cutting point is where the lines tangent to X and Z on the tool radius intersect. And for straight X, Z work this works. But what if you're cutting a radius - that point is going to move along the radius of the tool - that's why you need the radius. Notice in conversational mode for cutting radiuses ( radii - right?), cutter compensation gets turned on. If you use CAM software, you can leave the cutting point at the X,Z intersect because compensation is done in the software ( and you'll notice tool paths seem to cut into the part at points, but if you slow down simulation, you'll see the compensation coming into effect ). So it's important to enter radii in the tool table if your using conversational mode. With CAM software not so much - that radius should be in your tool def. Hope that helps.

    Edit: Added to explanation of the tool table

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    438

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by adamvs View Post
    I think it's actually right to have coolant sprayed from the bottom of the insert, because the edge of the insert is dug into the stock and the chip acts as an umbrella for coolant pointed at the top. If coolant is shot from the bottom it has a chance to get drawn between the chip and the cutting edge. I have QCTP and try to point the coolant as sideways as possible to get under the chip. Real world, tho, the stock and insert get plenty of cooling either way, not sure if it makes that much difference.
    I agree. I personally feel it is best to have the tool upside down and the coolant spraying from the bottom of the insert. I like the fact that it blows chips away from the tool and pulls the coolant into the cut. It's also an added bonus working as a continuous machine wash-down.

    May 31, 2015 - YouTube

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1424

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Your Hardinge Talent turning center is a bit faster than the Tormach SPL15,
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    107

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Scharged View Post
    It depends on what you want to make. Me, i wanted flexibility. I have a turret and a 40 position qctp mounted on an aluminum block I machined. The lighter cutting stuff will be done by that, where rigidity is needed I'll use the turret.

    Real estate is at a premium on this machine.
    My set up goes like this...1-8

    OD rough turning
    OD finish
    External threading
    Grooving (round nose tool) This one I swap out with others but I need to get the qctp base remade so I can move and align it easily. Bolts are too close to the post.
    Rigid ER16 collet holder for drilling. Bored it out also.
    Boring bar holder with tormach bushing/holders
    Parting tool

    The idea being that I can work my way around the turret in order or close to it. Somewhat successful. I'll rearrange the threading and grooving before I setup the offsets again, permanently I hope.

    Tormach tool holders are great, good price. Others I have are Micro 100 sets, 5/16 (from manual lathe I had and 5/8 shank just purchased. 5/8 is the largest shank size in those sets.
    Nice tools I think.

    Oh I bought the shorter gang plate and sawed it off so I could mount the qctp and move it around with a little more flexibility and still have a slot down the middle for larger diam stuff.

    Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.
    Is there a way to use the CXA QCTP and the long gang plate? to move the QCTP to diferent postions along the T slots of the long gang plate?

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    189

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by karloterrazas View Post
    Is there a way to use the CXA QCTP and the long gang plate? to move the QCTP to diferent postions along the T slots of the long gang plate?
    I had to switch to BXA and then yes. I think the CXA is too tall once on top of the gang plate.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    -Jon

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    107

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by maker of things View Post
    I had to switch to BXA and then yes. I think the CXA is too tall once on top of the gang plate.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for the Info, im planing to buy the turret and I already have the long plate with gang blocks and still want to use the QCTP for extra tools.

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