[stargeezer]

Hi every one, I'm currently running 1.5kw spindle and need a 2.2kw for the larger collet size. Can anybody tell me if it's safe to operate the 2.2kw spindle on a VFD rated for the 1.5kw spindle?,

[mactec54]

Hi every one, I'm currently running 1.5kw spindle and need a 2.2kw for the larger collet size. Can anybody tell me if it's safe to operate the 2.2kw spindle on a VFD rated for the 1.5kw spindle?,

NO your VFD Drive if running on 240v Single Phase,needs to be larger than the Spindle Rating, at least 1.5 Hp larger, there are some Single Phase VFD Drives that don't need to have a larger capacity but they are Designed to run on Single Phase, also cost more

[sajurcaju]

Can't you just set a current limit?

[stargeezer]

So, you say I must have one rated for 3-4kw? Even for testing? What would I be risking, the VFD or the spindle?

[mactec54]

So, you say I must have one rated for 3-4kw? Even for testing? What would I be risking, the VFD or the spindle?

If it is not rated for Single Phase then 3 to 3.5kw would be what you need, bigger will never hurt, if they are inbetween sizes

You could run it, but don't try cutting with it

Using a VFD to small for the job will not last long at all, this will depend on what company manufactured the VFD, if it's a cheap VFD it would not be worth trying it

[mactec54]

Can't you just set a current limit?

No you can not, the Electronic components, that the Drives use can not handle the extra that is required to run a larger motor

[sajurcaju]

"No you can not, the Electronic components, that the Drives use can not handle the extra that is required to run a larger motor"
This is why you set a current limit. The drive never sees the higher current because it limits itself.

Unless the drives used for spindles are different in this way from 60Hz motors, you are certainly wrong. That's what a current limit is for! If you set the current limit to 1A and try to run a 3HP motor off of it, the motor will not have a lot of torque/horsepower. It will start a bit slower than normal and it will stall at a lighter load. The VFD will be in very light duty due to the 1A current limit.

First, as you mentioned, figure out if the VFD is rated for single phase input. If so, set the current limit at some value a little below the max for the VFD, not for the motor. This will derate the motor and keep the VFD in normal operating range. It's very simple, really.

Steve

[wizard]

So, you say I must have one rated for 3-4kw? Even for testing? What would I be risking, the VFD or the spindle?

What MacTec may be getting at here is that the rectifier front end of a 3Phase rated VFD may not be able to handle the single phase current required to power the drive. Drives rated for single phase usage generally have rectifiers heavier than needed for a 3phase drive. Now to get the most accurate info you can talk to a sales engineer for a specific drive, they can refer to info on the drive and give you specific info with respect to required size for a single phase power supply and motor combo.

As for risks it depends upon the drive, you could blow out the final transistors on a cheap drive. Another drive may produce no useful power.

[dharmic]

IF the current limiting works properly, then you should be fine. But, if the current limiting is rubbish - say it's on a slow feedback loop - then transients at spin up and when the tool hits the work etc could well hit the output drivers and therefore all the input side with spikes well past capacity. How much do you trust the VFD's design? Is it well made, well documented, solid gear that cost as much as a small Chinese 3050 machine? Or is it the fleaBay special that comes on the 3050s?

On the other hand, I have a 2.2kW spindle on an appropriate (I hope, they came together in a machine) VFD and it never gets close to using the 2200W with the stuff I'm doing. So you may never hit the power requirement. Which leads to another question: where's the harm in trying? Worst case you'll blow your 1500W VFD and you'll have to get a 2200 or 3000W one to replace the smoking ruins of the old one so your question is answered and you need to buy it. Down side? Down time waiting for the replacement and you lose the ability to drop the old VFD and spindle on eBay.

Sorry, no answers for you, just more questions for you to ask yourself

[jalessi]

Stargeezer,

Who manufactured the VFD in question (make and model)?

Jeff...

[mactec54]

"No you can not, the Electronic components, that the Drives use can not handle the extra that is required to run a larger motor"
This is why you set a current limit. The drive never sees the higher current because it limits itself.

Unless the drives used for spindles are different in this way from 60Hz motors, you are certainly wrong. That's what a current limit is for! If you set the current limit to 1A and try to run a 3HP motor off of it, the motor will not have a lot of torque/horsepower. It will start a bit slower than normal and it will stall at a lighter load. The VFD will be in very light duty due to the 1A current limit.

First, as you mentioned, figure out if the VFD is rated for single phase input. If so, set the current limit at some value a little below the max for the VFD, not for the motor. This will derate the motor and keep the VFD in normal operating range. It's very simple, really.

Steve

It does not work that way with these Spindles, you obviously have no clue what we are talking about

One of the main problems with these Spindle motors you can no feed them with a derated VFD

You need to know what stargeezer is wanting to run, 60Hz motors don't come close to these Spindles these Spindles run at 400Hz, there is very little leeway with these Drives

[stargeezer]

Wow guys don't anybody get heated. What I have is a real Huanyang inverter, not the monkey copy one from Ebay (and I do know the difference).
Specs are;
Model HY01D523B

Input Voltage 220v 50/60hz Single and 3 Phase
Power (Kw) - 1.5
Inverter Capacity 2.8 KVA
Output Current - 7.0A

Sooo, I think everybody is a little right. And I think I'd better be safe than sorry since I don't really want to smoke this since it's a pretty sweet inverter that I can use elsewhere. This was my second VFD BTW. The fist one blew after the first week I was running the router. That's when I discovered about the monkey copy Huanyang inverters, when I asked about their warranty. And Yes, the first one was a copy. The quick way to know which you might have is the terminal strip where you make connections - 2 rolls of terminals and you should be fine, one roll and they say it's a fake. A second quick visual check is the front cover where the original once had a motor speed knob still has the dots showing a visual reference, the copy is missing this little graphic. A check of Ebay today showed these knock offs still being sold missing this graphic.

Even a Chinese copy of a Chinese copy is junk.

That's all I know guys and thank you all for your input. It's really appreciated.
Larry

[mactec54]

stargeezer

There is no such thing as a sweet Huanyang VFD they are what they are, a cheap VFD Drive, some are a little better than others, newer models have got better,( have a stronger IGBT, which is what fails the most in these Drives ) I have repaired many of them, some are unrepairable, they are not copies, they are just different models,with different features, even the good one's don't always come set up for a Braking Resistor connection, which is standard on all other manufactured VFD Drives, you have to look for this if you want to stop your high speed spindle fast

The Huanyang VFD Drives work fine, as long as parameters are set correct, wrong settings and they will/can fail on startup, which many have had happen, more expensive VFD Drives this almost never happens if you don't get the Parameters set correct

[stargeezer]

And you recommend?

[talootfouzan]

hello,

vfd is the most important part of the machine, i stumble alot back and forth for the spindle and vfd, as im trying to mill steel using high rpm spindle like those chinese, 1st there is 2 different type of vfd, high performance and normal one, the major difference between them, is the ability to over power your motor, in high or low rpm,
for example im having 380v 4.5kw spindle, with 5.5kw /7.5kw vfd

General advice, always look to vfd manual and datasheet before buying and confirm the motor control for vector control, alot of parameter should be taken to allow highest available torque, cooling is no problem, when your water is hot then you are doing fine :rainfro:, but just consume 100watt out of 2.2kw wont generate heat,

[JonnyElectronny]

I purchased a 4 HP, Huanyang VFD 3 years ago. It sits on my wall and runs my 3HP spindle motor quite well.
The only thing I wish, is that I hadn't read all the negative talk about it. Every time I run my cnc, I think that this is the day the VFD will die......but it doesn't.
A week ago I ordered another one. Once again, nervous of my purchase. Same VFD and same motor. Wired it up and it worked great.

Now, I am not saying that these are the best VFD's on the market but I think for the money, they do ok. If the first one didn't work out, I sure wouldn't have bought a second.
If and when it finally fails and smokes up, I'll be back to update.

Cheers.

J.

[mactec54]

I purchased a 4 HP, Huanyang VFD 3 years ago. It sits on my wall and runs my 3HP spindle motor quite well.
The only thing I wish, is that I hadn't read all the negative talk about it. Every time I run my cnc, I think that this is the day the VFD will die......but it doesn't.
A week ago I ordered another one. Once again, nervous of my purchase. Same VFD and same motor. Wired it up and it worked great.

Now, I am not saying that these are the best VFD's on the market but I think for the money, they do ok. If the first one didn't work out, I sure wouldn't have bought a second.
If and when it finally fails and smokes up, I'll be back to update.

Cheers.

J.

You are right for the money, they are a great VFD, if the parameters are set correct, for what they are running, they have a good life, and run just as well as any others, most don't buy the larger size as you have, which is a good to do

Using the same Hp VFD as the spindle on single phase, this is where some have problems, it's always good to have a spare one, especially if you are relying on it for business, I also have some spare VFD drives too

[stargeezer]

duplicate post - sorry

[mactec54]

stargeezer

Here is the parameters that you need for the 2.2Kw spindle, all others will be at default, unless you have some special need for other Parameter changes

Huanyang Mactec54
PD000=0 for Parameter unlock ( 1 ) for Parameter Lock

PD001=0 (1 For Remote Control)

PD002=0

PD003=400

PD004=400

PD005=400

PD007=20

PD008=220

PD009=15

PD010=8

PD011=120 (Minimum Setting 120)

PD13= 08 is for Factory reset, Only use this to set VFD to Factory Default Settings

PD014 Accel=12 ( Adjust to suit)

PD015 Deccl=12 (Adjust to suit) ( PD15 is ignored IF PD26=1 Then the Spindle will Coast to a Stop)

PD141=220 ( Motor Rated Voltage )

PD142=9 ( Motor Max Amps) (Set for your motor Amp Rating 2.2Kw Spindle 9 amp Max)
(Set for your motor Amp Rating 1.5Kw Spindle 7 amp Max)

PD143=2 ( Motor Number of Poles)

PD144=3000 (Max Motor RPM) =3,000= (24,000)

For Remote Pot use

PD002=1

PD70=0

PD72=400

PD73=120

[stargeezer]

Great! Thank you very much.

One last question, if you don't mind. just what should the rating for the braking resister be? I'm not sure I'll add one, but there have been times that I've wished I could get the spindle slowed quicker.