[mike3385]

Hi everyone! I've followed several topics similar to mine and am slowly building up the confidence to convert mine. I purchased mine about a month ago and was told everything worked. Upon studying its manual I slowly became familiar with how to somewhat set up this machine using its very outdated controller. To my disappointment there was several buttons on the controller that wouldn't work. I have tried a couple different attempts to fix it without any luck so I am now leaning more towards the conversion since I have yet to even play with this machine.
I would like to follow the footsteps of a couple of different guys on this site as for the electronics they have picked out, however I do have several questions. I've built 3 small benchtop mill and lathes before but only using cheap Chinese steppers/drivers. So far everything is holding up but being as how I've spent a bit of money on this machine alone I'd like to give it decent quality electronics.

I apologize in advance if my questions seem too "newbie" but I just want to be sure I'm on the correct path.

I've copied this from another thread from a guy I believe his name was MRM

He wrote what he has purchased:

1. Bardac 1600i
2. G540 Stepper Controller
3. 48V w/ 24V/5V Keling Power Supply
4. C10 bi-directional break-out-board
5. 20A EMI Filter

Here is some of my concerns

Bardac 1600i is what you would use to control the spindle correct? Will I also need some sort of index pulse card to know the spindles location? Also is the bardac literally $600+ or am I seeing things? Why can't we use the original or won't it communicate with mach 3?

The g540 controller seems very popular and nice quality. Will that control both the z and x or will I need to purchase 2 of these?

The power supply seems self explanatory

The c10 break out board. Will it be able to control things like the turret, coolant, limit switches ext... ?

What exactly is a 20a EMI filter?

I've read on some of those posts that someone has a script written for the turret movement in mach 3 so hopefully I can eventually retrieve that as well in the near future if I can get moving on this project.

I'll post some pictures in a couple minutes of its current condition. Thank you to whoever can help me out in this!

[mike3385]

Here are some pictures

[Fastest1]

Congrats on the purchase. You have some great iron.
Now to address some of your questions.
Bardac 1600i, it is a very good unit. You can find them much cheaper on Ebay. Well under 200 if you are persistent. On the other hand there is a perfectly good spindle control board already on your lathe. Try to learn how to interface with it. There is a manual/auto spindle switch. Trace those wires back and interface your new controller with it if you go that route.
The G540 is able to drive 4 axis, nothing else is needed. You will actually have an extra driver in case you fry one. You need 3. 1 for X, Z and the tool changer. The G540 is a well respected unit that is user serviceable. Leadshine also makes a similar unit the Mx3660 or the Mx4660 which would mimic the g540's extra drive. However the Mx series maxes out at 5amp per axis, the G540 at 3.5amp.
The multiple voltage power supply is good for a variety of voltages you would need. 48v for the drivers, 24v could be for relays, limit switches. Same for the 5v tap.

I believe MRM uses the c10 along with a 2nd PP to connect his other switches. A pokeys could do that too.

And last but not least a 20 amp EMI filter. Again this is likely already built in if you know how to identify it. Just reuse the original. It is to filter noise and help eliminate any false triggers.

There is an article somewhere on the web about how to interface with the original electronics. I had already gutted mine prior to finding the article and or understanding half of the parts I was looking at.

[Fastest1]

Before you gut it, read the article by Rex Swenson. This page has been updated recently and includes some good info that might be beneficial to you.
Rex Swensen's Web CNC Mill
He mentions Jorma Ikonen's technique for interfacing. If I can find his page I will link it too.

[Fastest1]

Here is what Jorma says on my YouTube video.
I do have Dyna 2200 with the DM2400C and I succeeded to transfer code to the machine even above 900 lines. The secret was that the last lines on you data block includes e.g. "899 SKIP TO 900"-line and the line 900 is "900 (blank) ". Then you download the data as Prog Execute-mode and when first lines are done and the controller at line 899 skips to line 900 (000-299=900 lines) what is actually 901th line, then it raises CTS-signal in RS232 to high and you can download next block of data.

It might just work on the DM3000 too. Write him, he has a YouTube channel.

[mike3385]

Thank you for the great info. I'll take a much closer look at my machine tonight to figure out what's what. I'm glad you replied to me as I have been reading over the thread you made on your machine probably like 100 times haha. Would you recommend swapping out for new stepper motors? I'll be actually using this machine more for little production runs of aluminum parts so the faster the rapid the better.

[Fastest1]

The Dyna's use a 10:1 gear ratio in their systems. This does give the steppers they used at that time the muscle they needed. It was a capable machine however in its original configuration and I dont know what the rapids where. Probably pretty conservative. Running Mach at 25hz does limit your rapids. I was running 101000 steps per unit (imperial).

I did change my steppers and went to a belt drive. My ratios are now in the 2:1 range. I have not really run it for more than testing. It was considerably quicker than stock. On the other hand the travel on this lathe is small in many regards. Rapids shouldnt make as big of a difference as refining the code will. Lessen the clearances and minimize the air time for the fastest results.

Btw, I too have read every thread I could find at least 100 times, even my own ;-)

[mike3385]

Makes sense. Were you able to find out the wiring for those older steppers? I've read someone was having issues trying to figure that out

[Fastest1]

No problem just google the brand and model number of the stepper.

[mike3385]

I have another newbie question for you fastest1, you've mentioned pokeys for use in different things. I've heard of them but have never used pokeys. What is it exactly? Will I be able to use them for random switches I'd prefer to hook up like feedrate override, spindle override, start button etc....

[Fastest1]

Though I have a Pokeys 57E, I have never used it. I did download Mach 4 recently and it did recognize it when using the plug in.

It is an Ethernet breakout board that would allow you to use all the things you mentioned. My understanding is that it is quite fast and doesnt require a 2nd port etc. It can accept many different types of inputs and outputs. My intent is to pair it with my ESS (Ethernet Smoothstepper) and run many switches as MRM has. More than a typical breakout board would tolerate.

[mike3385]

Making some progress today! I finally got the machine moved to its final resting place which means I can begin the conversion. I took a look at the old electronics and I can somewhat make it out. From what I can see and believe me I can be completely wrong here, looks like two 24v power supplies, one 5v power supply, a driver for each the x,z, and turret. A giant bob, and something I can imagine would have to do with the spindle. Fastest1 you've mentioned about the ess. I looked them up on cnc4pc and are they something you would recommend? Do they do anything for rapids or just a better resolution in the steps so to speak.

Also the more I think about it I might just push for a new spindle control instead of messing with this one. I found bardac ones on ebay however their not 1600i.

[Fastest1]

Yes the ESS will produce a faster pulse stream. IIRC it is 4Mhz. Mach thru a PP is recommended at 25Khz. It might or might not allow faster movements in reality.
Also the ESS allows up to 3 ports. The USB version up to 2.

You are right on the power supplies. They are Lambda units and are of very good quality. Reuse them if at all possible.

Though you could purchase a new spindle controller, why? The one in the unit is good and will do everything you need. Merely find the wire from the manual/auto spindle switch. Interface it into your BoB and you will be in business. You won't gain anything with the Bardac 1600i. Though it is a good unit.

Btw, read about the ESS or USB smoothstepper at Warp9td.com
Nothing against Arturo and CNC4PC as he is a great vendor with excellent support. But Warp is the manufacturer.

No interest in attempting to interface the original electronics? Really consider and possibly attempt it. Especially if you are truly considering a refit. What is there to lose if you fry the originals then?


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[mike3385]

Your right fastest, I guess I may have gotten a little gun shy opening up the back cover. Everything seemed to work and turn on when I got the machine so no reason not to attempt it.

[Fastest1]

My thoughts exactly. Had I known then what I know now, I might have been able to make it work. Of course, maybe not too. But as soon as you rip it apart and start a conversion you will recognize the parts.
Unfortunately many times a conversion takes time, patience and understanding when all we want to do is make parts. And we might not really have much experience at that either ;-)

[mike3385]

Sorry to continue to pick your brain but I am learning from everything your telling me. Now I will upgrade the bob so I can use mach 3 and everyone seems to be going towards the c10. Now if I get the c10 board, ess and pokeys55 . Does everything go through the ess and into the computer via ether cable? rather than the usual parallel port?

[Fastest1]

Actually you shouldnt need the C10. The ESS and the Pokeys (not sure of the 55) will take care of the access to the pins and the step and direction signals. No PP will be used. The PP is outdated and not even available on late model computers. This is what created the need for the ESS or its competitors.

Depending on how many Ethernet products you are running simultaneously will control how you interface with it. If only the ESS, connect it direct to your computer, more than 1 and you will use a hub, switch or router to make them part of your network. Or maybe your computer is an entirely separate area than your machine? Use the network. If I understand correctly each item will have its own IP address. I have only used one at a time so far. I was able to use the ESS just fine with Mach3 and though I havent used it with Mach4. I was able to recognize the ESS thru the plug in easily.

[Fastest1]

Look into that Jorma Ikonen info I gave you. It is possible you might not need anything. Either way you decide, I will tell what little I know and have learned.

[MRM RCModels]

Hey guys. It's been a while.

Mike,

Reliability was reason for my retrofit. I planed on doing production with my 3000 from day one. Make your electronics work if you can but they will fail at the worst time (trust me I know).

My motor just failed yesterday lol. That was the last bit of legacy electronics. The new one is 1.5hp of spinning awesomeness

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[mike3385]

Thank you both for the replies and advice! Between you both I feel comfortable getting my machine up and running! I do have a backup lathe if and when something is about to fail on me. I am willing to attempt to use the original spindle board if I can figure it out. I will try and study up on the guy you've mentioned fastest.